Where did "we" take the turn?

[Over43]

The recent discussion concerning "The Real Book of Mormon " has made me think when did "we" (as a cultural whole) begin to make this turn from the Book of Mormon being an account of the people of Nephi and Laman, as well as the Jaredites, to a "myth" or allegory?

The title page tells us it is an account of the people of Nephi abridged by Mormon. Joseph Smith (as stated in other threads) saw in vision the Nephite culture. As well as, I imagine, the Lemanite culture, etc.

I believe that. I do not believe it is mythology or legend. As much as the Bible is being shredded by current culture I think the Book of Mormon is a necessary tool in the continued belief in the resurrected Savior. As the Book says it is.

I was at a fireside in Chicago 20+ years ago when Daniel Ludlow spoke on the Book of Mormon. I distinctly remember him saying that, "Evidences of the Book of Mormon exist and more will be found. However, our belief in the Book of Mormon lies in faith, and it won't matter how many evidences are uncovered, people will still not believe..." (paraphrase)

Hugh Nibley taught that the Nephites were never a largely populous group. Culturally they were probably significant, but as far as populating the America's there were other groups that were far more populous than them. So there is more of their cutlural left overs available. Also, as we learn at the end of the Book of Mormon the Nephites disappeared due to genocide. Period. So those who would not go over to the Lamanites were killed, or like Moroni "vanished" into the wilds of the Americas. When the Nephites were conquored it isn't unfathomable that their towns, cities and culture were destroyed, and whoever remained under Lamanite control were absorbed into the Lamanite genetic pool (and whoever else was living in the areas at the time...) and disappeared.

I don't think it is for us to worry about "this evidence" or "that theory", what I think we need to do is absorb the teachings (which can be a lot harder than we realize) of the Book of Mormon and synthesize them into our daily lives.

Just a real long thought.

O43

[Elgama]

I agree with you I never said the Book of Mormon was myth or allegory just it didn't matter if it was. Its Gods Word contained in it that is the important thing no matter what happens in academic circles the Book remains the Word of God

-Charley

[skalenfehl]

The recent discussion concerning "The Real Book of Mormon " has made me think when did "we" (as a cultural whole) begin to make this turn from the Book of Mormon being an account of the people of Nephi and Laman, as well as the Jaredites, to a "myth" or allegory?...

...I believe that. I do not believe it is mythology or legend. As much as the Bible is being shredded by current culture I think the Book of Mormon is a necessary tool in the continued belief in the resurrected Savior. As the Book says it is...

...I don't think it is for us to worry about "this evidence" or "that theory", what I think we need to do is absorb the teachings (which can be a lot harder than we realize) of the Book of Mormon and synthesize them into our daily lives...

I summed it up similarly in a post in that very same thread: http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/9972-real-book-mormon-2.html#post175904

[Hemidakota]

Excellent response.

[sixpacktr]

Over43,

Great points all. No matter how much 'evidence' we find that the Nephites actually lived and that the BoM is true beyond all scientific doubt, it will still take faith to believe in it, and the whisperings of the Spirit to stamp the truthfulness of the BoM permanently upon our souls. There will always be those that will reject it, that will claim that it is false, the Joseph made it all up, or (worse yet) those in the church that will claim that it is simply an allegory, or a good story that teaches us truth, but not real. They try to reconcile the dealings and wisdom of the world (No DNA matches! EGads!) with the truthfulness of the gospel in order to make our beliefs more palatable to an increasingly wicked world.

[Elgama]

OK I don't think I have made my point very well lol at no point did I say it wasn't historical its what I believe also what I did say was that if something said otherwise it would not destroy the Book of Mormon or make it any less the Word of God in my eyes than it is.

-Charley

[Hemidakota]

Good point.

[Elgama]

thanks most of my posts on the other thread were done at 1am whilst it my legs were in spasm and i couldn't move so they are not my greatest work.

I just don't see a story Heavenly Father wants to use to teach us of Him as lesser value than an historical work of fact so if I am wrong and it isn't historical it doesn't change the testimony that is the Word of God,

The Prodigal Son is as valuable as the story of Mary and Martha - I am also sure that every story in the scriptures is told and edited in a way to teach us rather than in a way to tell us the exact truth, That's what keeps it relevant to us today the event happened then it was retold for us to learn from.

On a slightly personal note I will be gutted if Mormon was just a character of everyone he is who I want to meet most. I find the fact he raised Moroni to be such a righteous man a complete inspiration to us guiding children through difficult times and as a parent that is very relevant to me. But the story would be relevant if it was just a story it would still encourage me to raise my children.

-Charley

[sixpacktr]

OK I don't think I have made my point very well lol at no point did I say it wasn't historical its what I believe also what I did say was that if something said otherwise it would not destroy the Book of Mormon or make it any less the Word of God in my eyes than it is.

-Charley

Hey Elgama,

I wasn't speaking of you, if that is what you thought. I've heard it from other sources, and having read your posts, know you believe it to be real, not some made up story. I agree 100% with your point, though, that if somehow it was found to be like the 'prodigal son' and simply a story to teach us a lesson then it wouldn't detract from the spirit or importance of the BoM in our lives.

But it purports to be the history of a real people that didn't keep the commandments, and the result of that behavior. And it is everything it claims to be.

[Elgama]

Hey Elgama,

I wasn't speaking of you, if that is what you thought. I've heard it from other sources, and having read your posts, know you believe it to be real, not some made up story. I agree 100% with your point, though, that if somehow it was found to be like the 'prodigal son' and simply a story to teach us a lesson then it wouldn't detract from the spirit or importance of the BoM in our lives.

But it purports to be the history of a real people that didn't keep the commandments, and the result of that behavior. And it is everything it claims to be.

I wasn't sure I know I brought up that it was unimportant about it being historical. I believe it is but its not crucial to my testimony of it.

I think my view shifted slightly to the historical being almost unimportant when my illness got bad my concentration was lousy and I told my Mother in Law that I was struggling reading my scriptures, yet I could read 900 words of Harry Potter - wise woman she is suggested I forget it was scripture and read the book and thats when I fell in love with it - I read more or less the same way as I would the Harry Potter books, for first time I started to keep it in my bag to read on the bus or at any spare moment.

For me the bible stories enrich my life and i don't really ever consider or ponder with either whether they are historical the academics around them don't interest me despite my field at one point being archaeology/history/physics

-Charley

[Over43]

I wasn't referring to your original post on the "Real Book of Mormon" Charley. I am inarticulately refering to the "sub" culture that seems to come and go within the world of LDS culture. It is generally propogated by "academic" types who like to mull the "mysteries" of the Kingdom.

There is a fellow in my ward who is a physics/chemistry professor. He takes the Book of Mormon for what it is, the Word. It is a beautiful thing. On the other hand I am acquinted with several of the area church intelligentsia who question this, question that, yada, yada, yada. The "What if syndrome...".

As a missionary in the Mid-West we would often introduce the Book of Mormon as a "History" of the American Indian. We were wrong, but it was still common back them to do that. The Book of Mormon, as everyone here knows, is a book of doctrine which touches on historical events within a lost people. It is "Another Testiment of Jesus Christ". Whatever "history" or cultural insights we get are secondary.

So back to the title I guess, where did "we" (being other theories in general) start thinking it's OK to question the simple statement that the book is a record of the people of Nephi written by the hand of Mormon? It's pretty straight forward.

O43

[WANDERER]

Do people of the LDS faith question it...or have personal doubts or issues.

As an investigator I'm a bit confused about 'taking a turn', as I would think that it would be necessary to believe certain statements of faith as core beliefs and that this would have to be one of them. ?