Advice: Preliminary Question

[Guest TheProudDuck]

OK. I'm going to be asking the board for some advice tomorrow, but for an important reason I need to ask this question first:

Does anyone here know an LDS attorney named Kasey Haws? Or (which is definitely relevant to tomorrow's question) is anyone here him?

[Jenda]

Well.......er....ummm.........................

No.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

OK, then, one down, a couple of hundred to go.

[Snow]

Are you talking about the guy who used to be the managing editor of the BYU Law Review?

He now practices here in Orange County doesn't he and holds public office somewhere close by?

[Marsha]

City of Redlands, California

E-Mail: [email protected]

KARL N. "KASEY" HAWS - Mayor

Address: 35 Cajon Street, Suite, 200

Redlands, CA 92373

Mailing: P.O. Box 3005

Redlands, CA 92373-1505

Telephone (office): (909) 798-7533

Fax: (909) 798-7535

IS he still he mayor? As of early 2003 he was.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Marsha@Jun 14 2004, 06:58 PM

City of Redlands, California

E-Mail: [email protected]

KARL N. "KASEY" HAWS - Mayor

Address: 35 Cajon Street, Suite, 200

Redlands, CA 92373

Mailing: P.O. Box 3005

Redlands, CA 92373-1505

Telephone (office): (909) 798-7533

Fax: (909) 798-7535

IS he still he mayor? As of early 2003 he was.

He's not the mayor now. Do you know him?

The request for advice I'm being paranoid about making is a question about a job I'm thinking of taking, assuming an offer comes, which it looks like it will. Actually, I'm trying to decide between two potential offers, both of which sound pretty good. I might just be a little less candid in setting out the factors to be weighed if I thought, say, Kasey was Kevin. Or maybe Tr2, in really deep cover.

[Cal]

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Jun 14 2004, 07:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Jun 14 2004, 07:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Marsha@Jun 14 2004, 06:58 PM

City of Redlands, California

E-Mail: [email protected]

KARL N. "KASEY" HAWS - Mayor

Address: 35 Cajon Street, Suite, 200

Redlands, CA 92373

Mailing: P.O. Box 3005

Redlands, CA 92373-1505

Telephone (office): (909) 798-7533

Fax: (909) 798-7535

IS he still he mayor?  As of early 2003 he was.

He's not the mayor now. Do you know him?

The request for advice I'm being paranoid about making is a question about a job I'm thinking of taking, assuming an offer comes, which it looks like it will. Actually, I'm trying to decide between two potential offers, both of which sound pretty good. I might just be a little less candid in setting out the factors to be weighed if I thought, say, Kasey was Kevin. Or maybe Tr2, in really deep cover.

PD---

Other things being equal, a job in a firm owned by a mayor (or former) could be a good deal---mayors ususally have lots of community contacts---a plus in law. (The 'other things being equal can be a big issue'---call a few of his constituants, like city planners, other city council persons, the city attorney, the police chief, fire chief etc)

[Snow]

Okay, okay,

I don't know him but he got plenty of hits on google. Apparently he is big on the BSA.

[Arcobaleno Nero]

Never heard of the man.

[Guest lt]

nope don't know him

[shanstress70]

I think Rodney is Kasey Haws!

[Guest TheProudDuck]

OK, I guess my paranoia has been satisfied. The reason for my caution was that I'm meeting with Kasey on Friday, probably to get a formal offer to work with his firm in San Bernardino. Apparently one of the things he wants to be sure of is that I'd be happy working in a "small town" (by California standards) law firm. The thing is, while I actually am very enthusiastic about what he has to offer, I'm also meeting this week for a third time (again, probably getting a formal offer) with another firm here in Orange County, and I'm going nuts trying to weigh the advantages of each.

If your response to this is something like "you spoiled snotty dork, quit whining -- some of us have to deal with far worse problems," sorry. Keep in mind that I've been working for a firm headed by a partner who I think is Zeezrom reincarnated (without the charm), and for the last several months I've been hearing the ice crack under me, which has kept me up at nights thinking about how much fun it would be being responsible for a family while looking for a job with absolutely no cash reserves and huge debt.

Kasey's firm looks almost too good to be true. He's a great guy by all appearances -- very personable, competent, and generous. He and his partners are "refugees" from two of the bluest blue-chip California law firms -- former partners who decided that instead of working themselves into ulcers for a million dollars plus per year, they'd rather have half that money and a life. My jaw about hit the floor when Kasey mentioned the possibilities for compensation -- basically, I'd be able to keep about half of my billings (as opposed to a third, as at most firms, or a quarter, as in my present $#$% one.) Supposedly, the office is friendly, relaxed, and casual (one guy was wearing shorts and sandals when I had my first interview) with essentially the flexibility to work virtually as much or as little as you want.

The firm is pretty much the only top-drawer firm, with big-name clients, in California's "inland empire" region of Riverside and San Bernardino counties. For those unfamiliar with Southern California, the Inland Empire is kind of a distant bedroom community for Los Angeles and Orange counties, where people put up with monster commutes to be able to afford the cheaper housing. So a job in the Inland Empire that pays on a scale equivalent to the coastal counties is rare and gives you a lot more buying power, because the cost of living is so much lower.

My wife and I have been exploring the area, especially Redlands, and it really is a beautiful place. While Redlands is apparently the most expensive Inland Empire area, and while house prices have been appreciating at about 20% or more per year, you can certainly get a lot more for your money. In the neighborhood where I grew up, the cheapest three-bedroom 1960s-vintage ranch house is selling for $1.1 million, up from $300,000 six years ago. When I started law school, I figured I'd be able to afford a house pretty soon after starting work; now, it seems that if I stay here, I'll be renting a crowded (3 kids, remember) townhouse forever. Half the price of one of those squalid little ranch houses gets you a beautiful place on a giant lot in Redlands. And I love the atmosphere of the place -- it's an old citrus-growing university town, with lots of beautiful restored Victorian houses and orange groves. It almost seems like California in the 1910s, a period which I've always romanticized. It's right below the high mountains, with mountain biking, hiking, skiing, and similar things I like less than a half hour away.

On the other hand, I grew up here in Orange County, and I'm a total homebody. I love being around familiar places, and having my family close by. I love the ocean, although with aforementioned three kids it's been unconscionably long since I've gone surfing. The downside is that it's crowded and getting worse; the nice areas are getting richer and richer, with the corresponding lack of "real world" perspective and young families (the Primary in my ward is about fifteen kids; assuming I stick around, my family would increase it by about 13%). While the real estate market is appalling (unless you're lucky enough to be on the selling end, you greedy buzzard you), I seriously doubt, based on history, it can stay at the dizzying heights it's reached; there just aren't that many buyers who'll be able to pay these prices once interest rates tick up a point or so. Assuming that happens (and that's not certain), I think I'd be a little happier in this area. Less smog, too. All of the stuff we on the coast pump into the air blows to the Inland Empire and stays stuck against the mountains. <Nelson voice>Ha-ha.<Nelson voice/>

The firm I'm considering in Orange County is a large established one. Ever since getting out of law school, I've been trying, with little success, to land at a big firm. Lately, I've been wondering if that's what I really want. A good friend of mine, who's now my cousin-in-law (is that a word?) works at a blue-chip firm, and constantly tells me how frustrating it is, with all the pressure, politics, and obscene hours. While the firm I'm contemplating is supposedly a step down from the absolute top, with correspondingly lower pressure, billable-hour requirements, and pay, I'm sure it's still a lot more high-pressure than Kasey's firm.

So that's my dilemma: Kasey's firm is probably preferable than the Orange County firm; the pay is probably about equal (about 50% more than I'm getting now) for less, and more flexible and enjoyable, work, while assuming the real estate market corrects, I think I like my old stomping grounds a little better than Redlands, nice as it is.

Thoughts?

[Guest TheProudDuck]

anyone?

[shanstress70]

I'd tend to go for the more laid back firm. There is something to be said for being able to dress casually. At the software company where I work, one VP wears shorts and t-shirts, and wanders around barefooted. It makes him very approachable. Everyone wears jeans on a daily basis. It seems like a minor detail, but it's nice to be comfortable.

And on to the more important issue, I don't have to tell you that it would be great to spend more time with your family.

Last but not least, I know a lot of people love it, but I'm not crazy about big cities. If I were in your situation, I'd take the one in the Empire region just to live in a smaller place.

But that's just me! B)

[Lindy]

I don't know the man...

and my 2 cents....

PD...you have to do be happy in your job...or it will reflect on your attitude towards your family. You have a very time consuming and high stress job as it is, and I agree....if you can spend more time with your family...do it. You only have one shot at each stage of your childrens development levels. Make sure that you don't trade priorities that won't matter in the long run.

[Jenda]

Sitting here from my position of not having to make that choice, it seems to me the best choice would be to take the job with the least stress, with the most time for family and church. I understand that you would miss your old neighborhood and family that lives there, but you can always visit. It's not that far away, is it?

[Guest TheProudDuck]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jun 17 2004, 05:56 AM

Sitting here from my position of not having to make that choice, it seems to me the best choice would be to take the job with the least stress, with the most time for family and church. I understand that you would miss your old neighborhood and family that lives there, but you can always visit. It's not that far away, is it?

No -- it's fifty minutes away in light traffic [i.e. pretty much never except at 3 in the morning], but it just seems farther away. There are two decent-sized mountain ranges in between, which kind of gives it a sense of mental separation.