Prophets

[Flyonthewall]

I suppose I honestly can't answer that, because there is no one in my entire family who is LDS. I live in Utah, so maybe I have a better insight to the LDS faith than other non-LDS, but one of my problems is I rarely hear anything about the Lord when I've been to your church. No, I haven't been to your church a ton, but they always have talked about the churches, and the temples, and Joseph H. Smith, and so so many Joseph Smiths. And then they talked about chastity, and honesty. The only time that the Lord was really spoken of was in prayer. Maybe the days I have gone... well, I just don't know.

Just a little insight into how our speakers work. They are all part of the congregation, and have been asked by the ward or "congregation" leaders to speak on a particular subject. Perhaps the subject assigned was on the Prophet Joseph Smith...I don't know. Generally the subjects of the talks will be about gospel principals or the teachings of Christ. So even though the topic may not specifically be about Jesus, it will be about His teachings.

Another random question: why do some people here put G_d stead of His name? If it is being used disrespectfully, then that is wrong, but to simply say it isn't considered bad, is it? (And it's the same with hell - in the way that in discussion you can use it, but not if it's being used as a swearword. Please tell me if this offends because as I wanted to stress before, that is NOT why I'm here. I guess I'm seeking truth.)

I, personally, have decided to use "G_d" instead of "God" because it seems more reverent/respectful to me. There is no protocol or mandate on how to use the name of G_d when discussing the things of God, so you need not worry about being offensive in that respect.

[Flyonthewall]

Firstly, I'd like to apologize. It appears that I may have seemed like I'm trying to attack all of you. That isn't what I'm looking for here. Yes, I have been told about a lot of that stuff from other people, and I was looking to see what the actual LDS people would say about it, and whether it's really true.

I hope you will forgive any harshness that may have been tossed your way, but there are many that come here with quotes like that, just to belittle, ridicule and mock our beliefs. I get a little bit of an edge in my responses when that happens.

Don't be offended, but as a Catholic, I basically see Joeseph Smith as a man. And nothing more. I consider the bible as a more reliable source, because it was written by who knows how many people. As with the gospels, most (if not all) of those writers didn't know eachother and yet they wrote the same thing. Idk, but sorry if I've offended any of you.

No offense taken here. As a matter of fact, unless you are LDS, I wouldn't expect you to believe as we do.

We do believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of G_d, and brought forth the Book of Mormon, which is another testament of Jesus Christ, and it testifies of the truthfulness of the Bible.

Sort of off topic, but I was informed that Joeseph Smith was a freemanson. What is that?

Joseph Smith was a Mason. As I understand Masons, they are a quasi-religious organization, more of a brotherhood, like Shirners, Optomists, or Rotary Club, with roots in religion.

But don't take my word for it, look it up on line, that would be more accurate.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Firstly, I'd like to apologize. It appears that I may have seemed like I'm trying to attack all of you. That isn't what I'm looking for here. Yes, I have been told about a lot of that stuff from other people, and I was looking to see what the actual LDS people would say about it, and whether it's really true.

Don't be offended, but as a Catholic, I basically see Joeseph Smith as a man. And nothing more. I consider the bible as a more reliable source, because it was written by who knows how many people. As with the gospels, most (if not all) of those writers didn't know eachother and yet they wrote the same thing. Idk, but sorry if I've offended any of you.

Sort of off topic, but I was informed that Joeseph Smith was a freemanson. What is that?

I'm not offended :)

First off all, Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John were all Apostles of Christ and thus they knew each other, and knew Christ. They weren't writing through revelation as Moses did when he wrote Genesis, they were writing from memory, more like a journal - which is why there ARE many differences between the accounts. They were also writing for different audiences as well.

Joseph Smith is JUST a man. So we're agreed there. He was also a prophet of God, the same as Isaiah or Jeremiah, but he was still a man. As Skippy said, most of our meetings discuss how to follow Christ's teachings, rather than just reiterating how great he was. The LDS church is a church of action, of doing, of being and becoming, not just hearing. However, there are some people, and even some congregations, who sometimes seem to get off track and focus too much on God's prophets, and too little on God. At times it may seem that some of us even worship Joseph Smith - WHICH WE DO NOT. I'll just remind you that we are as human as anyone else and we are all imperfect and make mistakes.

Freemasonry is a fraternal organization originally organized in 1717, but which claims to trace its origins all the way back to ancient Israel and the builders and stone masons of Solomon's Temple. They have a lot of secret rituals and practices, of which I know little. During the early years of the LDS Church there were a great many new members who were Masons. Why Joseph Smith chose to became one is open to speculation, but it's possible that he did so in order to better understand the culture that many of his members were coming from. Some people have noted that there are some similarities between LDS Temple ordinances and Freemason rituals. Most of these similarities are purely superficial and none of the Freemason rituals carry any of the meaning or symbolism - or eternal significance - that LDS Temple ordinances do.

I suppose I honestly can't answer that, because there is no one in my entire family who is LDS. I live in Utah, so maybe I have a better insight to the LDS faith than other non-LDS, but one of my problems is I rarely hear anything about the Lord when I've been to your church. No, I haven't been to your church a ton, but they always have talked about the churches, and the temples, and Joseph H. Smith, and so so many Joseph Smiths. And then they talked about chastity, and honesty. The only time that the Lord was really spoken of was in prayer. Maybe the days I have gone... well, I just don't know.

Another random question: why do some people here put G_d stead of His name? If it is being used disrespectfully, then that is wrong, but to simply say it isn't considered bad, is it? (And it's the same with hell - in the way that in discussion you can use it, but not if it's being used as a swearword. Please tell me if this offends because as I wanted to stress before, that is NOT why I'm here. I guess I'm seeking truth.)

In the 10 Commandments it says "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain." Ancient Israel and especially later Jews refined this to an extreme - it became against the law and a sin to say the name of God AT ALL. Once a year there would be a special Temple ritual in Jerusalem where the High Priest would enter the Holy of Holies and utter the name of God, but this was the only time during a year when anyone could say it. When Jews read scripture, everywhere that the name of God (YHWH) appears, they say "Adonai" instead, which (basically) means Lord - this is why all the Old Testament translations say Lord every time God is mentioned. In any case, it's still against Jewish tradition to speak or write the name of God, so orthodox Jews or those with a Jewish background (or a special desire to be considerate to such) may choose to write G-d or some other form that denotes the meaning of deity without writing God. Those who follow this tradition probably believe this explanation contains a lot of blasphemy, for which I apologize. I've tried to make it accurate and complete.

As regards how often Christ is mentioned at an LDS meeting, take a moment to walk around the hallways and observe the paintings on the walls. Very often the first thing you see as you walk through the doors of an LDS meeting house is a picture of Christ. The very name of our church, the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, denotes our faith in Christ. Even so, our leaders have often admonished us to remember Christ more and Joseph Smith less. It's even been said that when a member bears their testimony, a proper testimony MUST bear witness of Christ and his divinity. But again, we're not all perfect.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

A little more about Masons - they are not quite religious. You can be a member of any religion to join, however you DO have to claim belief in SOME kind of supreme being. Until recently, the Mason Grand Lodge in Utah didn't allow Mormons to become Masons. This goes back to some early Utah history where the Masons were afraid that the Mormons would take over. Actually, that seems to have been a rather common thought for most people about Mormons during that time...

The Shrine club is more like a branch of Freemasonry - its founders were Masons and you have to be a Mason to join the Shrine. However Shriners don't have all the funky rituals and secrecy that Masons have, and Shriners have a greater emphasis on having fun.

Wikipedia has a pretty decent article on Masonry, as well as the Shrine. They're good reading.

Freemasonry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As regards the LDS church, early temples and other architecture had a lot of Mason symbols involved in their construction. There also used to be a lot more similarity between the LDS Endowment and Mason rituals. However as time progressed (and as the percentage of Masons in Mormonism fell) those symbols and similarities have diminished significantly. Why the early membership of the church had so many masons is difficult to tell. Perhaps the LDS movement had a particular attraction to Masons. Perhaps as Masons joined the church they convinced existing LDS members to become Masons. Probably a little of both. Who knows, maybe the Masons were trying to infiltrate this new and fast growing religion (conspiracy theorists unite!)?Currently the LDS church has no official position on whether or not its members choose to become Masons.

[CatholicGirl]

I hope you will forgive any harshness that may have been tossed your way, but there are many that come here with quotes like that, just to belittle, ridicule and mock our beliefs. I get a little bit of an edge in my responses when that happens.

No problem. I understand how that could happen - I do happen to be a minority here, and so I've had some experiences. That would make me extremely angry too.

And about masons: that's really interesting. Are they still around? If so, they must not be very big as I've never really heard much of them.

[Elgama]

No problem. I understand how that could happen - I do happen to be a minority here, and so I've had some experiences. That would make me extremely angry too.

And about masons: that's really interesting. Are they still around? If so, they must not be very big as I've never really heard much of them.

they are still around living in Scotland I am more aware of them than most Scottish Masons tend to be more open about who is a Mason.

My Grandfather was a mason and so was my Uncle very few outside of close family circle would have known that. In fact even people within the family circle may not know. You probably know and have met many freemasons. The womens version is called the Eastern Star and I understand that there is a Roman Catholic version called Knights of St Columba

-Charley

[Flyonthewall]

I hope you will feel welcome here, we really don't want to make anyone feel bad for visiting.

Yes, the Masons/Freemasons are still around. I don't know much about them or where they meet, but they around somewhere. If you do a search on "masonic lodge" you may get more information about them.

[Elgama]

look for a building in your local town that has this on it

http://www.masonicdocs.com/images/details/sq-cp-simple.gif

That is all it will have on it

-Charley

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

No problem. I understand how that could happen - I do happen to be a minority here, and so I've had some experiences. That would make me extremely angry too.

And about masons: that's really interesting. Are they still around? If so, they must not be very big as I've never really heard much of them.

In the little podunk town I grew up in here in Colorado there's a masonic temple downtown on main street. Just a little sign hangin off the side of the building says "Masonic Temple" and you'd hardly know it was there. They're actually fairly common all over the world, they just don't advertise or proselyte. As I said, you have to be a Mason to become a Shriner, so every Shriner you've ever seen in a parade was a Mason as well, and EVERYONE's seen Shriners in parades.

What Masons actually DO I don't have a clue. I've never heard of them sponsoring any humanitarian or good will stuff. You actually don't hear of them at all, really. As opposed to Shriners who have free children's hospitals and all sorts of other charity and humanitarian efforts. I've heard a lot of conspiracy theories regarding Masons in the highest levels of different governements and military and even the space program. Whether or not that's true, and even if it is, what they're doing there, I don't think anybody but them knows.

:edit:

Just on a whim I did a web search for "freemason pope" to see what I would find. Amidst all of the conspiracy theory trash I found this article, on the website for the Masonic Lodge of British Columbia. Before anyone gets carried away with it, though, I reiterate the disclaimer at the top of the article:

"While the author of this article in 1922 was convinced that Pius IX was a freemason, and other reports are available, it should also be noted that this website is not privy to Italian masonic records and cannot testify to their veracity."

Pope Pius IX : freemason

There were tons of other results regarding other popes, however this was the one that caught my attention as potentially being halfway legitimate.

[CatholicGirl]

they are still around living in Scotland I am more aware of them than most Scottish Masons tend to be more open about who is a Mason.

My Grandfather was a mason and so was my Uncle very few outside of close family circle would have known that. In fact even people within the family circle may not know. You probably know and have met many freemasons. The womens version is called the Eastern Star and I understand that there is a Roman Catholic version called Knights of St Columba

-Charley

Actually, the Knights is a men's club that helps out in humanitarian things.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Actually, the Knights is a men's club that helps out in humanitarian things.

Don't they also do BINGO on friday nights?

[Palerider]

the town I grew up in had bingo on sunday nights at the Cath Church

[CatholicGirl]

Haha, yeah. My church does that, as a fund raiser. There's also women's groups, and youth groups, and if I didn't live in Utah there might even be bible studies. There are all kinds of stuff we do - slightly similar to your church, I suppose.

[Palerider]

Haha, yeah. My church does that, as a fund raiser. There's also women's groups, and youth groups, and if I didn't live in Utah there might even be bible studies. There are all kinds of stuff we do - slightly similar to your church, I suppose.

I don't live and never have lived in Utah....:)

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Haha, yeah. My church does that, as a fund raiser. There's also women's groups, and youth groups, and if I didn't live in Utah there might even be bible studies. There are all kinds of stuff we do - slightly similar to your church, I suppose.

Well I've noticed a lot of churches that take their queues from the Mormons. Everything from family nights and bible studies to youth groups and choirs. Who originally came up with those ideas, I haven't a clue.

What I'd like to know is why being in Utah would prevent any other religious denomination from having a bible study? That seems kind of odd to me.

[pam]

I suppose I honestly can't answer that, because there is no one in my entire family who is LDS. I live in Utah, so maybe I have a better insight to the LDS faith than other non-LDS, but one of my problems is I rarely hear anything about the Lord when I've been to your church. No, I haven't been to your church a ton, but they always have talked about the churches, and the temples, and Joseph H. Smith, and so so many Joseph Smiths. And then they talked about chastity, and honesty. The only time that the Lord was really spoken of was in prayer. Maybe the days I have gone... well, I just don't know.

Another random question: why do some people here put G_d stead of His name? If it is being used disrespectfully, then that is wrong, but to simply say it isn't considered bad, is it? (And it's the same with hell - in the way that in discussion you can use it, but not if it's being used as a swearword. Please tell me if this offends because as I wanted to stress before, that is NOT why I'm here. I guess I'm seeking truth.)

I have wondered about the use of G_d myself. I know many use it as a way to show respect. I don't know. I prefer to spell out the name God as I feel (just my opinion now mind you) if shows more respect to me.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

I have wondered about the use of G_d myself. I know many use it as a way to show respect. I don't know. I prefer to spell out the name God as I feel (just my opinion now mind you) if shows more respect to me.

Um.. I thought I answered that one. Did I forget something? I do tend to forget things from time to time...

[Elgama]

Actually, the Knights is a men's club that helps out in humanitarian things.

yup the Masons lol - at least on a local level thats what they do like the Round Table etc

I suppose I honestly can't answer that, because there is no one in my entire family who is LDS. I live in Utah, so maybe I have a better insight to the LDS faith than other non-LDS, but one of my problems is I rarely hear anything about the Lord when I've been to your church. No, I haven't been to your church a ton, but they always have talked about the churches, and the temples, and Joseph H. Smith, and so so many Joseph Smiths. And then they talked about chastity, and honesty. The only time that the Lord was really spoken of was in prayer. Maybe the days I have gone... well, I just don't know.

I actually don't think living in Utah does give you the best perspective on being a Latter Day Saint, the majority of us live outside of Utah, personally I have never been to a Church service or lesson in our church that isn't about Jesus in someway even one about the Temple or respecting our chapels its all about Christ or his teachings. I don't see how you can discuss the Temples without discussing how we worship God at the very least and respecting our chapels/reverence etc is all about Christ.

Another random question: why do some people here put G_d stead of His name? If it is being used disrespectfully, then that is wrong, but to simply say it isn't considered bad, is it? (And it's the same with hell - in the way that in discussion you can use it, but not if it's being used as a swearword. Please tell me if this offends because as I wanted to stress before, that is NOT why I'm here. I guess I'm seeking truth.)

Its related to the Hebrew/Old Testament it was seen as disrespect to speak and write God's name in full hence YHVH - the vowels are missing

-Charley

[melissar]

There is a temple in St. Louis MO

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Its related to the Hebrew/Old Testament it was seen as disrespect to speak and write God's name in full hence YHVH - the vowels are missing

-Charley

Actually the vowels are missing because older Hebrew simply never wrote the vowels. Vowel marks didn't show up in Hebrew until around the 5th century AD. Before this time pronunciation was passed down mostly through word of mouth, which is why the proper pronunciation of YHWH is unknown, since it was replaced with Adonai when read aloud (because of the convention of not speaking the name of God).

[Elgama]

Actually the vowels are missing because older Hebrew simply never wrote the vowels. Vowel marks didn't show up in Hebrew until around the 5th century AD. Before this time pronunciation was passed down mostly through word of mouth, which is why the proper pronunciation of YHWH is unknown, since it was replaced with Adonai when read aloud (because of the convention of not speaking the name of God).

ok thank you:) i knew it was to do with it being seen as disrespectful to say God's name out loud.

-Charley

[CatholicGirl]

My personal opinion is that putting the underscore makes it seem like a swearword. That's just the feeling I get from it, even knowing why it's used.

[CatholicGirl]

What I'd like to know is why being in Utah would prevent any other religious denomination from having a bible study? That seems kind of odd to me.

The thing is, there aren't a lot of us. Most of the people work, or rarely come. My family and a couple others basically run the church. Also I have to travel between 20-30 minutes to get there, so going there more then once or twice a week starts to get to be a lot in both gas and time. One of the families have a travel time of about 45 minutes one way.

[sissyboo10]

I only have one question for you, Catholicgirl. If you think the LDS so wrong, and go against so many "scriptures" as you see it, then why are you so threatened by us? We tend to attack and fear what we don't understand.

Let me also point out that we in America DO live in a nation that was partially founded on the concept of freedom of religion. I won't knock your religion and tell you you can't worship how you choose, if, in return, you will leave my preferred religion and way or worship alone.

On a side note--I'm really starting to like loud mouth mormon...I like people who tell it like it is!

[Elgama]

I was thinking about my 'response to this thread during the week in real life and a quote at Stake Conference stood out concerning lessons about Christ or Jesus at church - I don't know who said it originally but

'the genius of Mormonism is that it makes every physical thing spiritual and every spiritual thing physical

This is how I feel everything in my life is spiritual, so a lesson about something physical is entirely related to Christ.

-Charley