Interpretation of Revelations 13:16-18

[mannisue]

This is only my second post, and again I'm starting with, "I have this friend. . ."

But I do. (Really, I have friends. lol) This friend of mine is flipping out right now over an e-mail he received about the "Mark of the Beast." The gist of it is that we will all soon have to have a chip imbedded in our skin with all of our personal information on it (I've heard this before) and that it's "coming sooner than we think! It's the mark of the beast! Beware--beware!"

This friend of mine is not LDS--he actually leans toward a non-denom type of church, which is fine. We've actually had a conversation on the connotations of the prophesies in Revelations before--he came to me because "I knew the scriptures." Well, I try...I'm not that great. So, in the interest of keeping the dialogue between us alive, I'm trying to find some sort of idea what various people feel to be a correct interpretation of the mark, and what the implications of such a mark are. I've even looked up 4 different translations of the verse, and they seem to say the same thing.

Any help would be appreciated!

[Guest tomk]

666 ??

I don't know. Sounds like someone's locker combination (snorts).

I think it would be "KEWL" to have a chip embedded under my skin, as long as there was equal protection in place to keep other people from getting info from me I don't want them to have.

I think Palm Pilots will eventually get there. We'll use them for everything:

ONE device will:

-Pay for things. Not just at the grocery store. I mean ... EVERYWHERE for EVERYTHING.

-Cell phone

-Home automation (turn lights on and off, grant access to the house)

-Car (grant access, turn the car on)

-Entertainment, movies, mp3, books...

-Organizer / Planner

I think the iPhone is heading in the right direction.

Sorry, this is not what your post was for. I'm a nerd.

[MaidservantX]

Remind your friend that Jesus saves and preserves all those who belong to him. We'll be all right, chip or no.

[Hemidakota]

As an engineer back in 2000, we were asked 10-great things that the US DoD could used by 2050.

Out of the ten submitted, along with a paragraph explaining about our idea, that the grunt or soldier would have a implanted GPS/medical diagnostic/ Personal Record containing chip in his left wrist for the purpose to view the soldier whereabouts and medical information on the battlefield.

Sad to say, possible working prototype maybe forth coming. Why? Another idea was a smart bullet for snipers to lock on an enemy target and him only. Call it a mini computerize Tomahawk missile. That is already in the works.

[mannisue]

Remind your friend that Jesus saves and preserves all those who belong to him. We'll be all right, chip or no.

Thank you, xhenli. That's pretty much what I've told him--as long as we remain vigilant and prepared for His coming, we have nothing to fear.

And no, tomk, you aren't a nerd. I think that the rapid advancement of technology, albeit a bit frightening sometimes, is quite fascinating to watch, let alone be a part of.

I suppose I just get a bit frustrated when people let things like this frighten them to death. Maybe it's just my cavalier LDS attitude:D, and I've been content just to reflect on things as they happen and refrain from stressing out about it.

What I'm confused by is this--are there going to be some sort of negative, eternal consequences for accepting, as it were, this "mark?" Would we really not be counted in the Book of Life, our salvations in peril? Gah. . .I'm just not smart enough for this. Anyone have a personal interpretation they'd like to share--aside from the "chip" idea?

[mannisue]

As an engineer back in 2000, we were asked 10-great things that the US DoD could used by 2050.

Out of the ten submitted, along with a paragraph explaining about our idea, that the grunt or soldier would have a implanted GPS/medical diagnostic/ Personal Record containing chip in his left wrist for the purpose to view the soldier whereabouts and medical information on the battlefield.

Sad to say, possible working prototype maybe forth coming. Why? Another idea was a smart bullet for snipers to lock on an enemy target and him only. Call it a mini computerize Tomahawk missile. That is already in the works.

Sorry, Hemidakota, I missed your reply when I did my last one. The ideas submitted that you mentioned would seem to have some serious implications, both for good and bad. Like I said to tomk, it can be frightening to watch the advancement of our technology at the lightning pace it is moving. But it is also strangely exciting, in a way.

So, do you believe that "the mark" is some sort of device, like a chip imbedded in the skin?

[VisionOfLehi]

You know it'll be the mark of the beast when every man woman and child is required to take it, and it's place on the right hand or the forehead,

If you take the scriptural references literally.

I'm sure there's a compelling argument out there that "head" and "right hand" refer to something symbolic...

There IS a consequence for taking this mark, indeed. I can only assume it'd be Telestial Kingdom for you.

85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.

Meaning, thus, during the Millennial Reign, they shall still be in Spirit Prison or something like unto it, suffering for their sins, until the Reign ends and they get resurrected in perfect physical bodies, and enter into Telestial Glory.

[Hemidakota]

Sorry, Hemidakota, I missed your reply when I did my last one. The ideas submitted that you mentioned would seem to have some serious implications, both for good and bad. Like I said to tomk, it can be frightening to watch the advancement of our technology at the lightning pace it is moving. But it is also strangely exciting, in a way.

So, do you believe that "the mark" is some sort of device, like a chip imbedded in the skin?

Yes. I had a dreamed a couple years later, revealing how the AC will take over the largest church and eventually, the UN.

There are others that I cannot list that maybe some issues for the Saints later as we draw closer to the end. I wish I could elaborate more on where this nation is at as to technology. You be shocked.

I will say, we change technology every 8-months now.

[Hemidakota]

You know it'll be the mark of the beast when every man woman and child is required to take it, and it's place on the right hand or the forehead,

If you take the scriptural references literally.

I'm sure there's a compelling argument out there that "head" and "right hand" refer to something symbolic...

There IS a consequence for taking this mark, indeed. I can only assume it'd be Telestial Kingdom for you.

Meaning, thus, during the Millennial Reign, they shall still be in Spirit Prison or something like unto it, suffering for their sins, until the Reign ends and they get resurrected in perfect physical bodies, and enter into Telestial Glory.

Take a closer look at Richard Drapers book concerning this. I think he hit the nail on the head per say.

[Hemidakota]

Tidbit: DoD/CIA uses LDS active members in there abilities to see [remote viewers].

[prisonchaplain]

My view on the mark of the Beast: Those who accept it will do so knowingly. It will be a badge of honor--a defiance of God. Some will be so bold as to want it on their foreheads. God will not condemn someone who is ignorantly tricked into receiving the loyalty mark. It wouldn't be a loyalty sign, in such a case.

So...tell your friend to quit worrying about what the Devil is up to, and embrace what God is up to.

[prisonchaplain]

Tidbit: DoD/CIA uses LDS active members in there abilities to see [remote viewers].

When I was doing missionary work back in the 80's in Korea (a time of some Anti-Americanism there), there really was a rumor afloat that the CIA recruited heavily amongst the LDS, due to language skills and uncompromised lifestyle.

[Hemidakota]

Yes!

Even NSA & DIA was another recruitment offering. Problem with such though, we begin to see things as to dreams, visions, and other particulars that will open a Pandora box into such technology we are not privy too but will know about. Example: ‘Dragon Fly [experimental AF aircraft] having no TS but seen it in action [dream] LOL

[Hemidakota]

My view on the mark of the Beast: Those who accept it will do so knowingly. It will be a badge of honor--a defiance of God. Some will be so bold as to want it on their foreheads. God will not condemn someone who is ignorantly tricked into receiving the loyalty mark. It wouldn't be a loyalty sign, in such a case.

So...tell your friend to quit worrying about what the Devil is up to, and embrace what God is up to.

Lets add some postulated thoughts from different authors. I will need to post this more than once though.

Good friend Elder Lund:

Out of that practice grew a secondary custom. Worshipers of various gods in the Roman pantheon, to symbolize the fact that they were totally dedicated to their god-in other words, that they were slaves or servants of their god-would also mark themselves on the right hand or the forehead. In this case they would mark themselves with a symbol of their god. Thus, a person might be seen walking down the street with a thunderbolt on his forehead, which symbolized that he was totally devoted to-that is, a slave to-Jupiter. A person marked with a trident said symbolically, "I am a servant of Poseidon, the god of the sea," and so on. John's readers, familiar with that concept and its significance, would not have puzzled over what he meant. To say that a person had the mark of the beast suggested that he was a slave of, or totally subservient to, the beast. Note that John uses the same imagery in a positive sense, indicating that there are those who are sealed in their foreheads with the mark of God (see Rev. 7:3). This use clearly signifies that these are people who belong to God; they are God's servants. Thus, while it is true that only Latter-day Saints have the additional keys necessary to correctly interpret Revelation, a careful study of non-LDS sources can bring many valuable cultural, linguistic, and historical insights that can greatly enhance our understanding of John's vision. (Gerald N. Lund, Selected Writings of Gerald N. Lund: Gospel Scholars Series , p.65)

[Hemidakota]

Now from Richard D. Draper. Look closer to some of the footnotes.

The Mark of the Beast (V. 18)

18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Those who worship the beast receive the right to wear its mark. Verses fifteen through eighteen underscore the idea that only through the act of worship can one receive the mark. Since refusal to wear the mark results in death, the only way to escape is to venerate the beast. But such homage does not bring peace or happiness. John states that those who worship the beast "have no rest day nor night" (14:11, KJV). Though looking to a future state, John well describes the restless, nervous, and nearly exhausted existence of individuals who sell themselves to the idol of materialism.

The mark of the beast has intrigued many. The Seer uses the Greek term charagma, which denotes a stamp, etching, engraving, or impression. It also describes the brand upon an animal or a slave. And it must not be overlooked that it also describes the mark left by a serpent's bite. The objective of the beast is that "all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond" receive the mark "in their right hand, or in their foreheads" (v. 16, KJV). No one is to be free of the mark. This mark stands in contrast to and is the converse of the seal placed upon the faithful followers of the other Lamb. As such it signifies those who are slaves of the Adversary.

The mark of the monster consists of the letters of its name written in its numerical equivalent. Most ancient people did not have a separate numbering system and alphabet, so letters also served as numbers. Generally the first nine letters of the alphabet stood for numbers one through nine, the next nine for numbers ten through ninety, and so on. In one kind of riddle, a name was translated into its numerical equivalent. For example a line of graffiti from Pompeii reads, "I love her whose number is 545." Among the Jews the practice was known as gematria. Many Rabbis looked for esoteric meanings in the numbers found in the Old Testament. For example, Abraham is said to have taken 318 trained men to rescue Lot from his captors (see Gen. 14:14). That number translates into "Eliezer," Abraham'schief servant.

Verse eighteen has caused no end of speculation. There John gives the challenge, "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast" (KJV), and then gives the number as 666. Scholars and amateurs both have suggested many ingenious solutions ranging in possibilities from single individuals to whole institutions. Some popular suggestions include, for an individual, the emperor Titus (Greek teitan, where t = 300,e = 5, i = 10, t = 300, a = 1, n = 50); for a nation, the Romans(Greek lateinos, where l o = 100, a = 1, t = 300, e = 5, i= 10, n = 50, s = 200). There are other names that work as well, like the man's name Euanthas. Significantly thrion, theword John uses for the beast, also equals 666.

One popular suggestion is that the number refers to the Catholic Church because the Greek forms Italika ekklsia(Italian Church) and h letana basileia (the Latin Church) both add upto 666. Further, some claim that the inscription on the mitre of the Pope also yields the same number. If such an inscription exists, the Catholic Encyclopedia and other reference works on religious vestments used by the Catholics do not disclose it. The view that the beast is a church seems narrow, if not bigoted, especially since the idea behind the beast seems more state than church. The Adversary would probably like the wrong kingdoms to be pegged.

The whole problem is fraught with difficulties. First, there are two manuscript traditions. The majority give the number 666, but others give 616. Second, the meaning may require the use of the digamma, an archaic letter out of use in the Greek alphabet before John's day but sometimes retained for use as the number "six."

Taking the Greek as it stands, John's riddle points to "a man," that is, a single individual. Historically, the one man who has left his mark as the arch persecutor of the Christians is Nero, whom many have argued for as the man John had in mind. To derive the number, Nero's name is transliterated into Hebrew nron ksr. The breakdown is n = 50, r = 200, o = 6, n =50, k = 100, s = 60, r = 200. Though the solution is ingenious, itis hard to believe that John would have put his readers through so much trouble. Also, Nero had been dead for nearly a quarter century before John wrote. However, in John's day there was another who bore the spiritual nature of Nero. This was Domitian. As emperor, he sought to exterminate the church of God. To John he may have seemed to be Nero reincarnate.

But a specific historical entity may not be what John had in mind. It may be that he was portraying a spiritual condition. As noted above, the mark and the worship of the beast cannot be separated. The mark stands for the beast. In such a case, the number six would stand in contrast to the number seven, God's number. Six would then be what comes the closest to perfection but falls short in each of its digits. The three digits could thus represent a trinity of imperfection: the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet. Partaking of the mark signifies spiritual devotion to the beast. It designates those who throughout time have been bitten by the serpent from the sea and who carry its venom in their veins.

Conclusion

There is much in chapter thirteen that awaits further revelation. When it is important for the Latter-day Saints to know specifics, the prophet will reveal them from God. In the meantime, an understanding of the message underlying the chapter sheds a little light. John's major concern is the question of worship, that is, to whom will men give their loyalty. Herein lies the message for those living in the last days when the beast will again actively recruit souls.

The monster is not Satan but the result of the unchecked work of Satan within institutions, communities, and countries. Wherever men refuse to be controlled by God or governed by truth, Satan rules; this is the danger of drive without humility. All spiritual aberrations are rooted here and are a result of the greatest of moral evils-pride. President Benson has warned the Saints against pride. "The central feature of pride," he instructs, "is enmity-enmity toward God and enmity toward our fellowmen. Enmity means 'hatred toward, hostility to, or a state of opposition.' It is the power by which Satan wishes to reign over us." He goes on to state that "the proud cannot accept the authority of God giving direction to their lives. (See Hel. 12:6.) They pit their perceptions of truth against God's great knowledge, their abilities versus God's priesthood power, their accomplishments against His mighty works." The prophet further states that the proud man gets no joy out of having anything but only out of having more than others.

Thus, pride is competitive. It drives men on and on, never allowing satisfaction, all the while twisting their minds and souls into eternal selfishness. "I am the greatest," such insist, "therefore, what I want should happen. I'll step on anyone or anything that will not bow to my will." Sooner or later, such souls become saturated with the same poison that turned the son of the morning into the devil himself. Affected by the bite of the serpent from the sea, they carry his mark always with them. It affects both their labor (the mark on the hand) and their thought (the mark on the forehead). To these prideful, perverted souls, all men must eventually become slaves. Those who refuse are considered the enemy and soon become the persecuted. Since God will not submit to their program, will not follow their agenda, he becomes their ultimate enemy.

The beast does not work alone. He teams up with the false lamb, a treacherous religious system pushed by pseudoprophets. The two beasts have produced the philosophical base and theological foundation for the satanic doctrine upon which the world feeds. The promise is always easy salvation, that property exists for the taking, that man can rejoice in sins and find joy. The doctrine is clearly enunciated by such men as Sherem (see Jacob 7:1-18), Nehor (see Alma 1:3-5), and Korihor (see Alma 30:6-16). Each taught what was "pleasing unto the carnal mind," and they "had much success" (Alma 30:53). But a lesson awaited each of these men.

There is an old saying that "you can't get something for nothing." But the truth behind the beasts is that you get nothing for something. That is Satan's method of operation. His minions make satanically inspired but empty promises ("ye shall not surely die"-Moses 4:10), and then extract their payment. Note that it is neither the monster nor the false prophet who makes the image for the beast. The people do that. The image is made from the salt of their sweat, their toil, their tears, and even their blood. But in their hour of need, the beast will quickly abandon them; "and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell" (Alma 30:60).

[Hemidakota]

Footnotes to the last post:

Footnotes

1. See Ehat, Words, 184-87.

2. Smith, Teachings, 294.

3. Ehat, Words, 184. See the beginning of chapter twelve. The record of Joseph Smith's talk by William Clayton shows that the beasts in chapter thirteen do not represent all the kingdoms of theworld, but either the prophet did not explain what they did mean or the recorders missed it.

4. McConkie, Commentary, 3:520-21. Joseph Smith commented: "I make this broad declaration, that whenever God gives a vision of an image or beast, or figure of any kind, He always holds Himself responsible to give a revelation or interpretation of the meaning thereof, otherwise we are not responsible or accountable for our belief in it. Don't be afraid of being damned for not knowing the meaning of a vision or figure, if God has not given a revelation or interpretation of the subject" (History, 5:343; cf. Ehat, Words,185).

5. Smith, Teachings, 293; cf. Ehat, Words, 187.

6. Collins, "Power," 80.

7. Hailey, Revelation, 283-84.

8. TDNT, s.v., zon; thrion; ktnos.

9. Mounce, Revelation, 250.

10. Hailey, Revelation, 283-84.

11. For a discussion of theories, see Hailey,Revelation, 285-86.

12. For an argument against the popular view, see A. Minear, "The Wounded Beast," Journal of Biblical Literature, 72(1953): 97.

13. Ford, Revelation, 219. Joseph Smith's explanation of verses2-3 has been poorly transmitted, making it difficult if not impossible to understand what he taught on the subject. According to the Clayton diary: "The beast John saw [crossed out at this point are the words 'as spoken of in the 13th chapter'] was an actual beast to whom power was to be given. An actual intelligent being in heaven and this beast was to have power given him" (Ehat, Words, 186). Thecrossed-out portion suggests that a correction was made because the reference was not to the beast in chapter thirteen. What Joseph did refer to seems to have been lost in transmission.

14. Charles, Commentary, 1:351.

15. Caird, Revelation, 166-67.

16. Ibid., 167; Mounce, Revelation, 254.

17. This is my translation. The passage is difficult. The NIV reads, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed." The RSV reads, "If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if any one slays with the sword, with the sword must he be slain."

18. Mounce, Revelation, 257.

19. Ibid., 248.

20. The tradition of the Antichrist held that miracles would be his mark (cf. 2 Esd. 5:4; Sib. Or. 3:63-67).

21. Mounce, Revelation, 258-59.

22. Bock, Apocalypse, 106-7.

23. Commentary, 3:523.

24. Mounce, Revelation, 259.

25. Mounce, Revelation, 260.

26. Charles, Commentary, 1:360.

27. TDNT, s.v., Charagma.

28. Adolf Deissmann, Light from the Ancient East, 277.

29. In a Christian example, the Sibylline Oracles 1:342-44 give the number of the name of the Savior in Greek as 888 (I=10, A=8, S=200, O=70, Y=400, S=200; for discussion, see Mounce,Revelation, 263).

30. For methodology, bibliography, and a list on many of the proposed solutions, see Ford, Revelation, 215-17; and Charles,Commentary, 1:366-68.

31. On these, see Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5.30.3.

32. For a broad spectrum of views on the subject, see Erdman, Revelation, 114-15; Hailey, Revelation, 297-99;Mounce, Revelation, 264-65.

33. Ezra Taft Benson, "Beware of Pride," Ensign, May 1989,4-7.

34. Cf. C. S. Lewis, Mere Christianity (New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1960), 94-99.

(Richard D. Draper, Opening the Seven Seals: The Visions of John the Revelator, p.152-)

[prisonchaplain]

My answer was shorter. :-)

[mannisue]

Hemi and prisonchaplain, thank you so much. I now have a lot more study to do. . . But please, continue to discuss--this has been a fascinating topic for me. Everyone, jump in!

[Hemidakota]

I will need to ensure I do post a disclaimer, do to church position.

[mannisue]

I have always felt that most of the images put forth in Revelations were symbolic of things we won't completely understand right now. . . Hemi, the ideas expressed by Richard Draper are truly fascinating. You guys have been a great help. . .thank you so much. If there's anything else anyone would like to add, please do!:)

[WillowTheWhisp]

There was an episode of Qi not long ago where it was stated that the 'mark of the Beast' isn't really 666 at all but that it was a mistranslation and they got the number wrong. The trouble is I can't remember what they said the number should be.

Wouldn't it be ironic if all the time we worried about 666 we happily accepted some other number which turned out to be 'it'?

Actually though I think PrisonChaplain is right that God will not condemn someone who is tricked into it. It will only be those who willingly wear it (whatever it is) as a badge of honour in open defiance of God who will suffer.

[Hemidakota]

Your are correct. It has to be 'open knowledge' with the acceptance of the beast.