Traveler Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 A while back I listened to a recording of one of the teariest pilots that spoke to the passengers of one of the plains that was flown into the towers of New York. As he spoke he told the passengers to stay in their seats. He said that if they cooperated no harm would come to them. He promised them that they would be okay if they went along. I have reflected on this event the last few days. That is, I have thought about promises that are made but intended from the beginning to be a lie. I have speculated what might have happened had one of the passengers not trusted the lie they were being told and determined to do something about it. I then have wondered how many of the passengers would have turned against him in his attempt to act. The teariest pilot was devout in his belief - he was willing to die for his belief. Part of his belief is to destroy our religion. I am not talking about just LDS. I am talking about the practice of any kind of Christianity in the United States of America. But just not Christians. If they could they would destroy a lot of other elements in our society as well. Some of those elements I do not embrace (such as homosexuality). But I wonder? Could the day come that all that love what-ever it is about America that we love would have to for a time forget our differences and trust each other to survive? But then I wonder if there are among us those that would turn on their countrymen thinking they could survive. Now here is my point. In life how do you tell the good guys from the bad guys? What is your equivalent to a white hat? The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler@Jun 26 2004, 09:26 PM The teariest pilot was devout in his belief - he was willing to die for his belief. Part of his belief is to destroy our religion. I am not talking about just LDS. I am talking about the practice of any kind of Christianity in the United States of America. But just not Christians. If they could they would destroy a lot of other elements in our society as well. Some of those elements I do not embrace (such as homosexuality). I don't understand the homosexuality part. What does that have to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I understand the last question....but I really didn't grasp what you were saying in all the paragraphs before it.... Usually you are very clear....but maybe you have more in your head....than you were able to put in writting... 1..Who, exactly, are you comparing the pilot to? 2..What do you mean....part of his belief was to destroy our religion? 3..Are you saying the LDS and all Christian churches are destroying our religion? 4..Isn't that contradictory in the accepted understanding of belief and religion? 5..The confusion between concepts and titles....needs to be more clearified... Anyway...as to telling who are bad guys and who are the good...The HOLY GHOST.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 The extremist that have declared war on the US. (including Ben Lauden {spelling}) They have declared war on the US for several reasons. One is because of public support of various things - adultery, devoice, abortion, and homosexuality. Though I personally oppose fostering or supporting such things in society I realize that I may be pulled into the side of a conflict that foresters such things against a side willing to create wholesale genocide against us. The extremist have also declared war against anyone that will not publically accept Allah as G-d and Mohamed as "the" prophet (so much for the Trinity and the Christian comcept of a G-dhead). It would appear that any means is justified - including lying about their intentions. Because they are willing to lie and present themselves as something other than they really are (perhaps even devout Christians). My question is how do posters identify wheat from tears? The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I believe we have to identify ourselves as wheat or tares...first...This is only done through total submission, humility, surrender to God...whatever you believe Him to be...let go of yourself first....then...you can know all things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jets Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler@Jun 27 2004, 08:39 AM My question is how do posters identify wheat from tears?The Traveler Or tears from fears, for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Jun 27 2004, 08:19 AM I believe we have to identify ourselves as wheat or tares...first...This is only done through total submission, humility, surrender to God...whatever you believe Him to be...let go of yourself first....then...you can know all things... I was going to go with an answer like this, but then I realized that those Moslems that ran the planes into the buildings were also totally submissive to their God, also, so I thought it had to be something more.Just like the followers of all those who led cults and then mass-killed them.I guess what I would need to add is that the life of another must take higher priority than your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I don't think those Muslems were submissive to their god....I think they were submissive to brainwashing and dogma...and promises out of the lips of men... Truly giving yourself up submissively to God....in your own private place....where there is nothing you attach yourself to....totally alone...without background or future....you can indeed know THE God and not be lead astray....you can know yourself behind the self-defense mechanisms you throw up....you know if you are the wheat or the tares...you can know what you need to do to change.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Jenda+Jun 27 2004, 09:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jenda @ Jun 27 2004, 09:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Jun 27 2004, 08:19 AM I believe we have to identify ourselves as wheat or tares...first...This is only done through total submission, humility, surrender to God...whatever you believe Him to be...let go of yourself first....then...you can know all things... I was going to go with an answer like this, but then I realized that those Moslems that ran the planes into the buildings were also totally submissive to their God, also, so I thought it had to be something more.Just like the followers of all those who led cults and then mass-killed them.I guess what I would need to add is that the life of another must take higher priority than your own. I agree with Jenda: The reason is that I have never met anyone that realized they were a problem. I once worked on a prison project and worked with a man that had commited murder multiple times. This person looked me squar in the eyes and said that anyone else would have done the same thing - claiming he had done nothing wrong. On the other hand I have been most impressed with the apostles at the last supper. When Jesus said one was among them that was not wheat. Most of them said something like - It must be Judas, he's sure been acting strange lately.Pardon my sarcasm. What they really said was "Lord is it I?" This I think is a good example of wheat.I have yet to meet someone that does not define themself as wheet - expecially when it comes to religion. And the non-Wheat is always somebody else. Yet it appears that the first real question asked by someone that is wheat - concerns themself, not others.I guess what I saying is that it appears to me if you think of yourself as wheat first there is a good chance you will not figgure out who the real wheat sent among us by the L-rd.One last thought here - I am not saying I right and someone is wrong. I am only giving my opinion as I go along here. This is one time I am looking for some honest opinions and wishing we can have differences without looking down on some opinions.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler+Jun 27 2004, 12:32 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Jun 27 2004, 12:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Jenda@Jun 27 2004, 09:42 AM <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Jun 27 2004, 08:19 AM I believe we have to identify ourselves as wheat or tares...first...This is only done through total submission, humility, surrender to God...whatever you believe Him to be...let go of yourself first....then...you can know all things... I was going to go with an answer like this, but then I realized that those Moslems that ran the planes into the buildings were also totally submissive to their God, also, so I thought it had to be something more.Just like the followers of all those who led cults and then mass-killed them.I guess what I would need to add is that the life of another must take higher priority than your own. I agree with Jenda: The reason is that I have never met anyone that realized they were a problem. I once worked on a prison project and worked with a man that had commited murder multiple times. This person looked me squar in the eyes and said that anyone else would have done the same thing - claiming he had done nothing wrong. On the other hand I have been most impressed with the apostles at the last supper. When Jesus said one was among them that was not wheat. Most of them said something like - It must be Judas, he's sure been acting strange lately.Pardon my sarcasm. What they really said was "Lord is it I?" This I think is a good example of wheat.I have yet to meet someone that does not define themself as wheet - expecially when it comes to religion. And the non-Wheat is always somebody else. Yet it appears that the first real question asked by someone that is wheat - concerns themself, not others.I guess what I saying is that it appears to me if you think of yourself as wheat first there is a good chance you will not figgure out who the real wheat sent among us by the L-rd.One last thought here - I am not saying I right and someone is wrong. I am only giving my opinion as I go along here. This is one time I am looking for some honest opinions and wishing we can have differences without looking down on some opinions.The Traveler So....are you saying that one does need to look inside and find out 'truly' if they are the wheat or the tare....as I stated above...or that it is impossible....because??why?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Jun 27 2004, 02:15 PM So....are you saying that one does need to look inside and find out 'truly' if they are the wheat or the tare....as I stated above...or that it is impossible....because??why?? Starsky: I kind of think of you as a kindred spirit. Do not think that I disagree with you when I agree with Jenda. I agree we need to be able to look within ourselves. There is however a "BUT" with that. I tried to state my reasons.It seems to me that when lines are drawn - especially between the good guys and bad guys; whoever draws the line always puts the line in such a manner that they are always among the good guys and who ever they do not like are always the bad guys.In the parable of the Good Samaritan Jesus showed the lines does not fall that way. In his parable the good guys (priest and Levites) were really the bad guys. The guys that were always bad (Samaritans) ended up as the good guy. As I am thinking about this it seems to me good guys are always kind - especially when it does not make any sense. Bad guys are the ones that are kind most of the time but can be mean when they are justified. The problem is that if I draw the line in this manner - I’m a bad guy. I keep thinking it is okay to be a little mean to bad guys because they deserve it or because they started it or whatever. Maybe if you are a good guy you will see everybody else as good - or at least thinking they deserve a better chance. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Well I definitely WAS a good guy once..... But now I am bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john doe Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Well I definitely WAS a good guy once..... But now I am bad... Ahhh, the truth FINALLY comes out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenda Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Jun 27 2004, 10:37 AM I don't think those Muslems were submissive to their god....I think they were submissive to brainwashing and dogma...and promises out of the lips of men...Truly giving yourself up submissively to God....in your own private place....where there is nothing you attach yourself to....totally alone...without background or future....you can indeed know THE God and not be lead astray....you can know yourself behind the self-defense mechanisms you throw up....you know if you are the wheat or the tares...you can know what you need to do to change.... Starsky, I do agree that you are ultimately right, but, unfortunately, only God can see into another's heart to know it's intent. We humans must look for other clues. That is the only reason I felt the need to add another condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler+Jun 27 2004, 03:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Traveler @ Jun 27 2004, 03:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Jun 27 2004, 02:15 PM So....are you saying that one does need to look inside and find out 'truly' if they are the wheat or the tare....as I stated above...or that it is impossible....because??why?? Starsky: I kind of think of you as a kindred spirit. Do not think that I disagree with you when I agree with Jenda. I agree we need to be able to look within ourselves. There is however a "BUT" with that. I tried to state my reasons.It seems to me that when lines are drawn - especially between the good guys and bad guys; whoever draws the line always puts the line in such a manner that they are always among the good guys and who ever they do not like are always the bad guys.In the parable of the Good Samaritan Jesus showed the lines does not fall that way. In his parable the good guys (priest and Levites) were really the bad guys. The guys that were always bad (Samaritans) ended up as the good guy. As I am thinking about this it seems to me good guys are always kind - especially when it does not make any sense. Bad guys are the ones that are kind most of the time but can be mean when they are justified. The problem is that if I draw the line in this manner - I’m a bad guy. I keep thinking it is okay to be a little mean to bad guys because they deserve it or because they started it or whatever. Maybe if you are a good guy you will see everybody else as good - or at least thinking they deserve a better chance. The Traveler I was trying to grasp it all....it was maybe a bit more complicated for me is all....to grasp the 'but'....But no problem....kindred spirit ..... :) I am just getting less and less complicated as I grow old....maybe it is the child in me...coming back...would that it would play into my skin....and bones as well as my spirit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chell Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 I don't think there can be too much ephasis put on how disgustingly wicked homosexuality is. It has been a noted factor of all fallen societies. We should beware, because we are very close to being completely destroyed by the level of wickedness in our country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Alrighty then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maureen Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler@Jun 26 2004, 07:26 PM What is your equivalent to a white hat? In Season 3 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the episode called The Wish; both Giles and Oz are known as white hats. So I would say that anyone who fights against the Master and his cohorts are white hats. M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setheus Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Originally posted by Traveler@Jun 26 2004, 07:26 PM But then I wonder if there are among us those that would turn on their countrymen thinking they could survive. Now here is my point. In life how do you tell the good guys from the bad guys? What is your equivalent to a white hat?The Traveler as member of the armed services, if I were sitting on a plane that has just been hijacked and was told that if "we sit quietly that no one will get hurt" I'd know right away that is a lie. but many civilians would buy into that. Secondly, if I decided to take action against the hijackers I'd EXPECT my fellow passengers to get up and take action with me. Or if someone else beat me to it and took action before me I'd sure get up and take action with them. Even if nobody had any training there is always the Bee swarm tactic. They can cut or shoot some of us but not all of us. And I'm sorry, if you let yourself go down because a man has a box cutter. ...I'm glad the men that took the beaches in WWII didn't have that pansy, non surviver attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70@Jun 28 2004, 09:01 AM Alrighty then! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.