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New entry: What Seek Ye?

I'll be the aberrant voice. I only believe in being self reliant insofar as I am not a burden to anyone. While I believe in bearing one another's burdens, I prefer that to be an equitable proposition. Otherwise, I strongly advocate what the Lord declared to his people through Jacob in the land of Nephi: Or consider what Jesus Christ taught his twelve disciples who were to become his special witnesses: And the time came when He asked if they ever lacked anything for their discipleship: We see examples of those who were self reliant and yet were called to repentance. For example: Amulek repented of his self serving, self reliant ways to serve someone else, who was wholly reliant on the Lord, namely Alma who I believe went preaching without purse or scrip: Like Jesus' disciples, Alma never lacked anything. For he labored as one who labors in Zion. But as not all are apostles of the Lord, we can all be disciples. For example: Consider the following parable given by Jesus Christ: The man in the parable was the kind of man that planned for tomorrow. He saved up for his retirement. He kept his food storage. He was certainly self reliant. What could he have done with this stores while he acquired them that Jesus Christ would have approved of? Verse 21 seems to qualify the Lord's intent. If we choose to seek for riches, it ought to be for the sole purpose of elevating the least of His children who are powerless, even undeserving of our surplus. For we are all undeserving of all God has to offer us and it is only by His grace and His love that we have received anything. But that is how we retain a remission of our own sins. Or else we might find ourselves in a worse fate.

Mikbone, have you read the King Follet Sermon?

You do yourself a disservice for God is no respecter of persons. He has invited all men, both Gentile and House of Israel to come unto Him and rend the veil of unbelief. As you are not a heathen, ignorant of the the gospel of Jesus Christ, this means you are also invited. Nobody is exempt.

You're welcome. If you missed the link to the pdf I wrote, here are some of the words relative to this topic: This was the purpose of the School of the Prophets. He defined the role of apostleship. Like Saul of old who became Paul, they had rent the veil and became eye witnesses of God. Having set the stage for the creation of the School of the Prophets, the Lectures on Faith were then commissioned for their education.Here is the link if you want to read the entire thing: https://latterdaylamanite.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/lectures-on-faith-my-witness.pdf

I know I've shared a lot of information in this topic. I apologize I did not post more concisely my thoughts. It seems that those who have asked me questions have not completely read everything I have shared, which I believe is quite comprehensive. The only other thing I can add to help clarify is the mention of Joseph Smith's King Follet Sermon in which he declared: We are presented with the idea of two distinct individuals. Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon, who have both gazed into heaven and conversed with Jesus Christ (D&C 76), knew what they were talking about when they along with others in a committee wrote the Lectures on Faith and in the third lecture, taught the correct attributes of a Father and a Son. It is not incorrect to attribute to Jesus Christ the name/title/roll/office/whatever word you choose of Father. He has worked it out and has taken His place while His Father, who is also our Heavenly Father has taken a higher exaltation. Both are Fathers, or if you will, "the Father." Likewise, Abinadi and all other prophets who "knew" God, knew what they were talking about when describing Jesus Christ. To quote Abinadi again: Abinadi taught by the Spirit, but King Noah and his priests with the possible exception of Alma, did not understand Abinadi and could not because they did not receive his teaching by the Spirit. Otherwise, they would have repented of their evil and in doing so, they would have also sought to know the Lord, befitting their offices in their small church in the land of Nephi.

Hello, SpiritDragon. No, I am not suggesting that they are one and the same body. They are two distinct, glorified individuals.

This is all the approved pattern I need: and Nothing subtle about it. Bold, straightforward and precise. Straight from Jesus Christ's own mouth. I am a disciple of Jesus Christ. I know these are Jesus Christ's words. He is the Father. They are true. He invites both Gentile and house of Israel to rend the veil of unbelief and know Him. That means know Him personally, not just about Him. Nobody is exempt--especially members of the church.

May I suggest the word "character" and/or "attributes" rather than "nature?" The natural man is an enemy to God. Jesus Christ is no longer natural. Although nature can include attributes and characteristics, it also implies belonging to the physical, natural world, of which Jehovah is not. It may be why the Lectures on Faith does not use the word nature when describing the attributes and character when describing the correct ideas of God.

@Anddenex, I'm on my cell, so my answer must be brief. If you read everything I shared in this thread including my pdf link, you will see that I have already addressed this. If it's still unclear, I'll try and clarity when I get home to my computer. Cheers.

That is spot on, @SpiritDragon. Yes, Abraham claimed the right of a "father" along with all the other patriarchs prior to the flood. It is through Abraham that all generations of the earth after him are blessed. It is also why the sacrifice required of him was so extreme and how symbolic it was of the sacrifice of our Savior, Jesus Christ. I don't know why Abraham's trial was so difficult compared to that of the others, but I can only speculate that his "succession" was so far out of turn, that the Lord truly tested his willingness to make that claim. Thus, Isaac and Jacob also became "fathers" and why the three are typically mentioned together in succession, Jacob (or Israel) being the father of twelve nations. A few examples:

In terms of covenant relationships, I do not agree with the term "elder brother." The only context that lends any kind of weight to the term is the fact that Jesus Christ is the "Firstborn" as in church of the firstborn. Otherwise as I quoted above, there is a Father and there is a Son. We may become sons and one day, as Joseph Smith explained in his King Follet sermon, a son may become a Father when it comes to a covenant relationship, Abraham, being one example.

Alma prayed to Jesus. Other scriptures: Jehovah goes on to call Moses His son. He has also called others His son(s) D&C 109 where Joseph Smith prays to Jehovah as the Father in the name of the Son, Jesus Christ when dedicating the temple. The Kirtland Temple dedicatory prayer was specifically given to Joseph Smith by revelation. He did not make these words up.

Great topic! Abinadi got it right. Jesus Christ is the very Eternal Father. When I pray to Father in Heaven, it is Jesus/Jehovah who answers. I still pray in the name of Jesus Christ. He is both the Father and the Son. He has a Father, too, who is also our Father in heaven. Both are Fathers, though one is also the Son because He came down to take upon Himself flesh. And He has commanded us to call upon His name. We know His name because He told us what it is. I spent years studying the Lectures On Faith, because this was a confusing subject for a long time. But after a lot of studying and praying, this is what the Spirit has taught me. I wrote up what I learned for a lot of friends/people who thought I was off the rails. I'm pretty used to being considered an oddball and that's okay. I hope it sheds light on the subject. Food for thought anyway: Lectures on Faith-My Witness

He just published another video today. This is a man--a peacemaker and a bridge builder--after my own heart!

I can understand that. It reminds me of an old joke: Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!" Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.

He is certainly converted to its teachings. Or as Nephi wrote: Perhaps you are puzzled at how he is not converted to the LDS church, though he is clearly converted to Jesus Christ. Or why would Jesus Christ make appearances to people who are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Who doubts the testimonies of the following two individuals? And: Is this part of God's strange act in the last days? We read the same in the book of Joel: Why did Jesus Christ not point Will and Afshin to our church? I don't know. But I certainly believe them. After all, we are in the last days. In 1836, the Lord told Joseph Smith the great and dreadful day is "near, even at the doors." (D&C 110:16) Anyway, I love their testimonies!

Man, this one touched me deeply. I know I don't post much anymore, but I can't help it. I gotta share.

I am really enjoying this Baptist Minister's channel. He knows more about our history and doctrine than the average Mormon...I mean...member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! 😁

I love this guy!

New entry: To All Mormons: An Open Letter

A Corrupt Tree

New entry! Please take a moment to visit. Thank you: Reign of Judges: Title of Liberty