skalenfehl

Thank you for sharing this!

Nothing Left to Give

I would like to suggest that the "powers of heaven" does not refer to abilities but rather beings such as angels, Seraphs, Gods, etc. We find clues alluding to these "powers" throughout scripture, which mentions powers of heaven, powers of earth and powers of hell. These "powers" of heaven seem to connote glorified beings. There are also powers of earth and hell. One might be familiar with the term "superpowers," which indicates very powerful nations. Anciently, Assyria was a superpower because of its military might. Today, the US could easily be considered a superpower with all its armed forces (powers). The above passage implies that the three Nephites had more power (ability/capacity) that no "power" of earth could hold them. And by their words could they smite indeed. Then there are the powers of hell, too. With all this mind, we go back to the scripture: The rights of the priesthood (the right to use the authority associated with) the powers of heaven (angles, Seraphs, Gods, etc) are both inseparably connected. Heaven is a place where righteous (just) beings dwell and associate with one another, never through compulsory means. In other words, there is no unrighteous dominion. Here on earth, we, in our fallen unredeemed state are unrighteous and have the natural tendency to exercise authority upon one another (I am your father/bishop/presiding authority and you will do what I say). Now consider why Jesus told his disciples that He could, if He chose, to send down twelve legions of angels to save Him from death, but He refrained. And why would they do so if He commanded it? I will leave that to you to ponder. Therefore, if you wish to have such association with the "powers of heaven" as Moses and Enoch and Nephi and others did, it must be upon the principles of righteousness. That is why priesthood (like neighborhood, brotherhood, etc) is an association with said powers and why they grieve when one attempts to handle (control) them unrighteously. There cannot be any degree of unrighteous dominion. We ought never to seek to exalt ourselves or gratify our pride, vain ambition, exercise any control over one another. A good example of this is Nephi in the book of Helaman. The Lord granted to Nephi power to seal on earth and to smite. And though Nephi had the authority to do so, throughout his ministry and efforts to suffer all their buffetings, he eventually pleaded with the Lord to send a famine to persuade the people to repent. Nephi was gentle and meek, showing love unfeigned to the degree that he pleaded with the Lord to send a famine to persuade the people to repent rather than be destroyed by one another. And rather than smiting them himself, Nephi deferred instead to the Lord to do the smiting. And it was done exactly as Nephi petitioned. At no point in time throughout this ministry did Nephi coerce, compel, or even attempt to control the people, even when he was given authority to do so. Such is the meekness, humility and longsuffering of one who possesses the rights this priesthood, or in other words, the association with the "powers" of heaven.

Scientists can explain how gravity works, but not what causes it. They can only measure what they observe in the material world. The answer is simple. The Spirit of the Lord governs all "natural laws." His Spirit upholds all laws. What prevents you from suddenly floating off the ground and into space or what prevents you from coming apart at every molecule? It is God's Spirit that governs these laws. When He grants to you further light and knowledge, according to your faith, you, too, will be able to defy the laws of gravity and all natural laws. You will be able to speak and move a mountain as the bro of Jared did, or cause an ax head to float to the surface of the water after falling in as Elisha did. And maybe one day in the distant eternal future, like Jehova did, by faith, you will say, "let there be light." And there will be light. And scientists in that future will try to understand and measure the observable material world that you created for them and call it physics in a weak attempt to understand it all. If you can get through this discourse by Orson Pratt, it will shed more light: http://jod.mrm.org/2/334

Thank you, Eowyn; I just now saw your edit of my post. Yes, that is correct. There are two Hebrew words, "perfect" and "perfection," tamam and calal. The first connotes wholeness and the second connotes completeness. The Greek translation from "tel" connotes both wholeness and completeness. We tend to think it means being flawless. I tried to have a discussion about this with a fellow elder in church the other day who believes we can never be perfect in this life. I can see how it is impossible to become flawless as he understands it, but I surely believe we can be made whole and complete. New entry: The Vision of Isaiah

Traveler, thanks for sharing!

Traveler, I believe this will interest you greatly:

I don't believe I said the Holy Ghost will guide you in all things. I do believe, however, that all the things the Holy Ghost tells you to do, you should do. There is a distinction between the two.

May I offer input? I would like to suggest, if I may the following three things to ensure one never falls away, straight from Jesus Christ: 1. Receive the truth (from the scriptures, prophets, i.e. Nephi, Joseph Smith, Thomas S. Monson, etc) 2. Take the Holy Spirit only for your guide (2 Nephi 32) 3. Be not deceived (prophets have been deceived from the Old Testament to D&C, including Joseph Smith who lost the 116 page manuscript). If you have the Holy Ghost and do whatsoever it tells you, you will never be led astray. If you take the Holy Ghost only for your guide, you will discern deception from anyone. And you will abide the day of the Lord's coming. The following witness is from Nephi: Be ye therefore wise.

The short answer is because the the Lord said to do so. The more lengthy answer was because the Lord required Nephi and his posterity to have the brass plates to preserve their knowledge of the Lord so that they didn't dwindle in unbelief. This term is very significant. Anyway, everyone's life at Jerusalem, including Laban's was forfeit. They were about to be destroyed by Babylon. Laban was an evil fruit good for nothing but to be cast into the fire. Furthermore, Laban had cast out Nephi and his brothers three times, having sent his servants to slay them unjustly while robbing the four brothers of their family inheritance. Laban had broken the laws of God and of the land. Nephi was not only commanded by the Lord slay Laban, but was justified. Had Nephi declined to do so, one of the consequences might be that Laban would have sent his armies to find Nephi and his family after having taken the record anyway, ending Lehi's journey to the promised land. Another scenario is Laban losing his life to the Babylonian armies when they came to destroy Jerusalem. The bottom line is Laban's life was forfeited. Nephi, having inherited the tokens of kingship (genealogy/brass plates, sword, Liahona, Laban's clothes), he became the ruler and teacher of his family just as the Lord had prophesied. Had Laban been righteous, he would have been the rightful heir to that role, being the sole guardian of the record of Joseph.

How did the brother of Jared obtain such a powerful manifestation? We are told initially that he was favored of the Lord. Joseph Smith talks about the favorites of heaven. Nephi talks about being highly favored. Those who keep His commandments/do His will are indeed favored. To be favored is a covenant blessing. The brother of Jared was meek and obedient. He was favored. That is the reason Jared told him to inquire of the Lord if perhaps He would preserve them and give to them a land of promise. This was Jared's request. Because the bro of Jared was favored (again because he was meek, humble, obedient, etc), and because he cried unto the Lord "this long time," the Lord granted his righteous desire to intercede for his family and friends. The Lord is always pleased to have "saviors in Zion" and the bro of Jared's "work" to cry unto the Lord until the Lord inclined His ear, gained him an audience. Thereafter, the bro of Jared was given more work to do. He was to build barges and gather necessities. This was all an act of faith; of work. Finally the Lord let the bro of Jared work out a way to illuminate the barges (beautiful symbolism), which I believe the bro of Jared was inspired to come up with the solution. So inspired was he because, being faithful and obedient and favored, that he was able to part the veil of unbelief and turn all that works/faith into fruit/knowledge of Jesus Christ. The first fruits of faith is repentance. The final fruits is knowledge. This is the kind of knowledge produced by those who see Him with an eye of faith. And so that Lord gave him two more stones (how coincidental is that!?) to do more work. And the Lord showed to him all things from the beginning to the end. The more our faith grows, the greater our works become until like Jesus, one may say in the distant eternal future: "Let there be light."

I will not claim to be correct, but I disagree. The bro of Jared just wanted the stones illuminated. He desired the Lord to touch them. The Lord grants to us our righteous desires. The Lord explicitly told him that this was His spirit body. The bro of Jared saw the Lord's finger with an eye of faith; with his spiritual eyes. We are spirit. We are tabernacled in the flesh, however, we are able to, when attuned, to perceive the spiritual, but not according to the flesh. When the bro of Jared saw, to his surprise, the the Lord's finger, he thought he saw flesh and blood like his own, but the Lord clarified the matter to him. Knowledge in this context is defined as a covenant relationship. Adam knew Eve. Jehova knows Israel. We tend to think of the word know as sexual, but it's not. It is more of an intimate relationship. A covenant relationship. When the Bridegroom returns, the veil will part and the "woman" (Israel/Zion) will be revealed to him. Thus when the bro of Jared desired to see the Lord's face, his faith was sufficient (his works being equal to his faith) to see the Lord and thus "know" Him. This is why it is impossible to be saved in ignorance. You cannot be saved without knowing who it is that saves you. Ether chapter 3 contains a key of knowledge, or rather, obtaining knowledge.

One's faith is in direct proportion to one's keeping of the commandments and sayings of Jesus. The first commandment is to repent. But of what? We are told exactly what the Lord does and doesn't want us doing. In Hebrew, the word repent means to return. Returning to the Lord is a work. How did Nephi exercise faith? He returned to the Lord. The next work was to inquire of the Lord. Then when it bore fruit, he resolved to do whatever the Lord required of him (1 Ne 3:7), one of the biggees being to slay Laban. Because of his obedience to the Lord, he gained confidence in the Lord working through him. When his brothers left him for dead, the Lord granted his petition to free himself from the bands. Alternatively, once they sailed, Nephi did not petition the Lord for the same, because he knew it was the Lord's will that he suffer being tied while his brothers learned a humbling lesson. When the Lord knows you will serve Him at all costs (Moses, Nephi, Isaiah, Abinadi, etc), he swears an oath with you and grants to you His power to do His own will. Faith then becomes knowledge. Knowledge saves. The brother of Jared had faith no longer (Ether 3), but obtained knowledge. This is and has always been the pattern since Adam. Jesus Christ created the earth by faith. The work He had to do was to utter words. By words do His works come to pass. "Let there be light."

There are two ways to rebel against society - take a steaming, fetid dump all over what everyone else holds sacrosanct, or alternatively, treat as sacrosanct what everyone else pays lip service to. The first is a time-honored rite of adolescence. The second will get you cast out and possibly killed. This Sunday, as it is my turn to teach a lesson, I will expound on the first few chapters of Isaiah to my Elder's Quorum.

Woops, I wrote, "I believe" in the wrong portion of my post. In other words, what I wrote is what I believe and do not claim it as fact. But...your interpretation presumes that spotless means not touching Mary. I disagree with that interpretation, but also do not claim it as fact. Kinda cool to see different perspectives.

I can never be good enough. Because of the fall of Adam, I am, in the flesh and an enemy to God. I have come to know that I do not deserve anything He has to offer. I cannot earn my way into heaven. I can never repay Jesus Christ. It is only by His merit and His merit alone that I can even beg for His mercy. It is by His grace alone that He can save me if I obey His commandments. And by obeying His commandments, I can learn to be like Him. And if I do my very best, His grace is sufficient, scarlet as my sins are. Truly He is mighty to save. I can never be enough, but I can do enough.

I'm glad some folks found the JST scripture. Indeed Jesus told Mary, in essence, "ok, you can let go now. I still gotta go see my Father." I believe that Mary was Jesus' wife and is why she anointed Him (His feet) in preparation for His burial and why Jesus appeared first to her and not to Peter or James or John or any other apostle or man or woman.

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Yes. Immortality is to overcome physical death. Eternal life is to over come sin, or in other words, eternal life is life with God--dwelling in His presence.

Yes and no. To be exalted is to be elevated. To be elevated to the celestial kingdom is to be saved. But to be saved isn't necessarily exaltation as Mormons consider the term. People who overcome death will be saved, death being the final enemy, whether in the Telestial, Terrestrial or Celestial Kingdom. Now consider this passage: So, those who inherit the celestial kingdom, who are "saved" will learn about a higher order of kingdoms, which equals further "exaltation."

Well, considering the alternative...

Vort, that is a very good question.

You're welcome. One last thing, may I recommend reading the Lectures on Faith, especially the sixth lecture, which applies to us (well, it all very much applies to us), but more specifically the following verse:

Well...my circumstance is unique and I didn't present it to my current bishop. I prefer to keep this personal so I apologize for not going over details. I've only been in this ward two years now, going on three. I went through different wards having had to move often in the last ten years. When I went to my first tithing settlement with my current bishop, he lectured me on wearing a beard (or not wearing one) and then lectured me on wearing a "priesthood uniform," insisting that I wear a shirt and tie to church. I disagreed with his philosophy regarding the "priesthood uniform," but I told him that if he really wanted me to, I would do it for him (and not because I agree that wearing a white shirt and a necktie constitutes a priesthood uniform). I do love my bishop. He's a decent fellow, but we disagree on some things and I'll leave it at that.