skalenfehl

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I take the Lord's words at face value. I believe Him. If he says to offer up something in a prescribed manner, I do it as He requires. If others deem it irresponsible, I respect their opinions, however, obeying God precisely is how I choose to live my life to my best ability. I disagree that it is irresponsible. It has yielded fruit and that is what matters to me in my life. Fast offering is another matter and is not included in the Lord's "standing law forever" as outlined in D&C 119. And as the OP quoted: I just happen to base my decision on what the Lord has explicitly declared in revelation and also based on scriptural precedents such as those of Abraham and Joseph Smith personally. The reason I said you were not helpful is because the OP was asking for help.

What I have offered conforms to the Lord's requirements as outlined in scripture as I understand it and so far you are not sure you agree and judge me irresponsible, but you have offered nothing nor have been helpful.

The simplest solution I found is to liquidate all surplus property and pay it to the church as tithing. Thereafter is a matter of doing as outlined by the Lord in D&C 119. To my knowledge, however, the church doesn't normally receive surplus property such as farm tools, livestock, electronics, etc.

D&C 119:4 is the fulcrum of the subject, but often ignored are the preceding verses. Then the subsequent verse: The Lord intended to redeem His people. A Zion people is required. Once a member consecrated his surplus property, this was only the beginning of the tithing of God's Zion people. We don't do that anymore. And we don't even understand "interest annually" either. "A standing law unto them forever." The term forever is pretty clear to me. We covenant to obey the law of consecration in the temple, but we are not provided means to do so. In order to be a redeemed people, we must be a Zion people. This requires us to have NO poor among us. If we cannot make ourselves equal in temporal things, the Lord will not make us equal in heavenly things and so we must learn to care for the poor and that is what the tithing of the Lord's people is intended to do. Joseph Smith understood the purpose of tithing as did Abraham of old: Abraham gave his surplus property as the beginning of his tithe, just as we read is God's standing law forever in D&C 119. And because Abraham did what God required (no more, no less, but precisely), God blessed Abraham with riches, honor, etc, which was God's covenant to him. When we learn to obey God the way God prescribes, He blesses us. But not if we improvise. It doesn't work that way. Cain thought he could do it with his offering, but God refused it because it was not the way God prescribed. It isn't about receiving gross blessings or net blessings. It's about elevating the poor by consecrating our property and making ourselves equal in temporal things so that God can make us equal in heavenly things. Some interesting quotes:

A buddy of mine related to me about the rebuilding of the Ogden temple, which his friend was part of the process. The concrete walls (and steel) are so thick, now, they're designed to withstand nuclear blasts. I'm not sure how true that is, but taking the construction materials and methods alone (of which I was witness to in Brigham City's temple), I'm not too surprised. The amount of concrete and steel that goes into the building alone may well exceed the costs of all the finery that goes into beautifying it. But if Romans could destroy Jerusalem's temple with not one stone standing upon another, there is no doubt in my mind that the Lord, if He wills, can do the same with any of the temples the church could design and build, or at least allow it to happen. After all, He did declare the following to the saints: But I don't think people should be worried about how much good the "church" does for the poor. People should be worried whether or not each of "them" is doing anything for the poor. Just my opinion anyway, but I am just a foolish man.

According to Matthew, Jesus said not to turn away the borrower, but according to Luke, the exhortation has a stronger meaning:

To the OP, I wrestled with this for a long time in my life. It wasn't until I began to read the scriptures and what Jesus Christ, Himself, taught, lived, and taught us to live. It is summarized in His sermon on the mount, but more pointedly simplified as the Golden Rule: We are all, by default, evil, being in our mortal, fallen state, carnal and selfish in nature. Jesus Christ explicitly taught us what it means to love and He exemplified it. He is love personified. No greater love can a man have than to lay down his life for his fellow man. And if we can truly love so much so as to give that ultimate sacrifice, why do we rationalize withholding our substance to anyone who asks of us. Man tends to exact a price for his goods. Joseph Smith once said that we "overexact much." We refuse the beggar and justify ourselves for doing so. We covet our own possessions and have proven that we will not make ourselves equal in temporal things (notwithstanding we have covenanted to live the law of consecration). Christians/Mormons either do not understand the scriptures/Jesus' own words or they simply do not believe Him. To be compassionate, simply put, is to put another before one's self. It is to condescend to lift another just as Jesus condescended to lift us all.

Mosiah 26:20 Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name, and shalt gather together my sheep...

Scroll back up and read my quoting Helaman chapter 10. Who is the authority speaking and who are the witnesses?

That is from the third lecture. Proceeding to the sixth lecture, the law of sacrifice, we read: Indeed knowing is not equal to believing. The brother of Jared had such knowledge, not merely believing or supposing. The brother of Jared received the "testimony of Jesus" while in the flesh. As for the rest of humanity:

Indeed it takes time to recognize the voice of the Lord and to distinguish it from any other voice, one's own included. Imagine the horror Nephi felt when the voice of the Spirit constrained him to slay Laban? By this time, however, Nephi had a relationship with the Lord to know without a doubt which voice to hearken to. When you have made your calling and election sure, you will know it. You will have been willing to be thoroughly proved to serve Him at all hazards, not even withholding your own life. You will have learned to trust the Lord intimately with your life.

A more detailed example of being sealed up:

etc...

We read in the Lectures on Faith that the Holy Ghost is the mind of God. When He speaks His mind to you as He did with Enos and many others, it is the voice of the Lord.

The holy spirit/holy ghost is not the same as the holy spirit of promise. The holy spirit of promise is another term for being sealed up to eternal life or making one's calling and election sure. How does one know when he/she has been sealed up to eternal life? They Lord makes it known to you by His own voice. This is covenental. The Lord personally covenants with you that you have part and place with Him in His kingdom. In summary, to receive the "other comforter" is to be sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.

Sorry about the quotes. This forum really has issues. Or I really have issues with the way we can post (and can't even review our posts to prevent embarrassing formatting). I can't even figure out how to delete my poorly submitted posts.

Jehovah goes on to call Moses His son. He has also called others His son(s):

I believe the most problematic was secret combinations, which we are warned about in Ether 8. It proved to be the downfall of the Nephites and the dwindling in unbelief of the Lamanites. "Gadiantons" are alive and well in the US and in Utah, where I live.

I'm old enough to remember where that expression originated.

Did I mention Stockholm Syndrome? Anyway, the arguments are all silly. People arguing in favor of their version of worldliness. I mean, look at The Little Mermaid. Always envying, coveting and wanting to be "part of that world." Never mind. I'm outta here.

Haha, good point. Buuut, we'll let it slide just this one time because, after all, he turns out to be a prince, and very handsome, and rich, and everything a girl covets who lives a provincial life. I suppose "there really is something there that wasn't there before." Just not Mr. and Mrs. Buffalo.

Gay scene? What? Don't people understand that love should only be between a woman and a giant horned animal?!?

God is indeed Spirit. Our scriptures indicate such as well. But that is not the same thing as being a spirit. Man is also Spirit. Furthermore, Joseph Smith taught in the Lectures on Faith the following about the attributes of God: Before we came to the earth, each of us was (and is) Spirit. We came to the earth and took upon ourselves tabernacles of clay, made of the dust of the earth. Or at least Adam was and so we all are. Likewise, Jehovah condescended to take upon Himself flesh becoming a "Son," though returning to heaven a "Father," still Spirit, but also clothed in glory and power, having overcome all enemies, including death, thus possessing all perfection and fullness. We, however, do not possess such glory or power or fullness. There are also those not yet born into the world who are spirits, but also Spirit. Context matters in these things, but as mentioned in the above post, spirit has various meanings, for example:

Whenever I see someone ask people such questions, I always quote Nephi. Laman and Lemuel inquired of Nephi because it was sooooo much easier than asking God. And even though Nephi's answers were correct, his brothers put their trust in his answers rather than ask God about their father's visions unlike Nephi, who went straight to God and inquired of Him rather than just take his dad's word for it. But that takes, you know, effort. Moroni called it real intent.