skippy740

I will take your scenario as it is written (because we all know that hospitals will always follow the religious convictions of those in their hospital). I would say that it would be interpreted differently by those who are there. I would look at it as an act of faith being performed. Granted... it's not MY faith, but I respect other religious views. But I admit to being more tolerant of others' religious beliefs because: 1) I know what I believe 2) I know that any saving rituals done prior to death by other religions count as an act of faith or as a prayer to God, and not a proper Priesthood ordinance. 3) If my dying mother (let's assume she was Catholic and I am LDS) didn't have the saving ordinances done while in this life, I would be sure that she had the opportunity to accept the GIFT of those ordinances to be done for her - so she has the OPTION. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a multi-faceted gospel. It allows us all to act in Christ's name (that we take on at baptism) to help Him in this work. The Gospel of Jesus Christ (no matter which church) is not a gospel of coersion or forcefulness. It is about us having CHOICES. I see the ordinances performed on behalf of the dead as a way for them to have a CHOICE to accept the LDS version of the Gospel or not. But (according to our faith) without those ordinances having been done AT ALL, they won't HAVE that choice. It must be seen and viewed as a GIFT with the CHOICE to ACCEPT or REJECT. It is a gift given freely out of the best parts of the human heart, soul and spirit. If an earnest seeker of truth still rejects my gift, I am not personally hurt. I have made that choice POSSIBLE for that person. But... remember that we believe that there is missionary work being done in the next life. Imagine that your ancestor has learned that the LDS faith is true. They cannot act upon that faith UNTIL their baptismal work and other ordinances are done on their behalf. If they don't accept, they can at least have the CHOICE to reject. I hope this helps to clarify.

Whoa. Time out here guys. I think you're both agreeing in a very disagreeable fashion. Yes, EVERYONE is allowed to come to services. NOT everyone is ready to enter into the covenants we make at baptism. Joining the Church and participating in church services are TWO different things. One can always attend services - no matter what their lifestyle is (as long as they behave appropriately). Not everyone is ready to enter the baptismal covenant. Some people can just be "spectators" of the church and join in worship services while others can be numbered among those of the Church of Jesus Christ. I believe Prospectmom is just trying to be sure that those of same-sex attraction are welcome at our meetings. Vort and I have been ensuring that we don't forget that attendance isn't the same as joining the church.

Your statements are in conflict with one another. The difference you're pointing out is between "religious institution relations" and personal practice. If it was part of your own way of practicing religion was to look up ANYONE'S ancestors to do their work, I would say that that is an overzealous attitude. Particularly because another religion has been so against it. Remember that we ALL represent the Church and our Faith to everyone around us. I respect other people's opinions on what they believe the truth is... for them. AoF 11: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. You may reject their reasons all day long. I just hope that you aren't called to be on an inter-faith relations committee for the Church in relations to our Jewish brothers. (BTW, I have Jewish ancestry and had relatives that were in Auschwitz. I've been to Jewish worship services and I think I understand them. I don't AGREE with them doctrinally, but understanding and empathy makes the whole world a better place to live.)

Thanks for sharing. I also created one for my wife and my mother - and posted the one for my wife on my facebook page!

Then you are insensitive to the feelings of others. (Just the response I would expect when someone would call them a fool - particularly when you're speaking about religious beliefs.) Your points are correct, but as someone wisely said once: "Your actions speak so loudly that your words I cannot hear." Remember - without Judaism there wouldn't have been any Christians. They believe that they are the only true religion following the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. You can only attract bees with honey, not with vinegar. And truth is in the eye of the beholder. "Seek first to understand, then to be understood."

This is an innocent point of view, but an incorrect and one-sided view. The Jews have felt that they (as a religion and as a nation) have been under attack and they are trying to keep the Jewish faith and people alive, preserved and to continue on for generations. Well, they feel that they're under attack while they're living... and now they learn that Mormons will baptize them when they're dead? If they don't understand what the gift is that we are offering, it feels like we're going to get them one way or another and that their traditions won't be preserved in THIS life OR the next. 2 Nephi 29:5 O ye Gentiles, have ye remembered the Jews, mine ancient covenant people? Nay; but ye have cursed them, and have hated them, and have not sought to recover them. But behold, I will return all these things upon your own heads; for I the Lord have not forgotten my people. 3 Nephi 29:8 Yea, and ye need not any longer hiss, nor spurn, nor make game of the Jews, nor any of the remnant of the house of Israel; for behold, the Lord remembereth his covenant unto them, and he will do unto them according to that which he hath sworn. While the Book of Mormon is written for the convincing of the Jew and Gentile, they need to do so under the spirit of love... not out of a perceived spirit of fear - that they feel towards our practices regarding the dead. I recently had this conversation with a devout orthodox Jewish lady whom I worked with. It was the first time I had heard of these things, but I explained how we believed that they are handled - and that the baptism is done as a gift - a gift that can be freely rejected. She seemed content with my response to her.

It almost sounds like you are looking for a more specific marketing message? ANYONE can attend our worship services and Sunday School classes. I would say we need to focus on one thing at a time. At the last election, we've found that a lot of African Americans in California shared their views on marriage as the LDS. We even have special committees on how to reach out to African Americans in our communitees - and remember - they were DENIED the Priesthood until 1978! All for something that's not in their control (skin color) and for reasons only known to the Lord. Those who have same-sex attraction are still welcome to join the church - as long as they lead a celibate lifestyle. They can still have the Priesthood and all the other rights and privileges that the gospel brings. They need to make that lifestyle choice. How about Official Declaration 2? (see below)

There have been issues with doing baptisms and other ordinances for people whom you are not related to. I've heard rumors that Hitler was done (maybe? what do I know) and other prominent figures in history. There's also issues between Jews and Mormons in the baptizing of those who were in the holocaust. Holocaust Survivors to Mormons: Stop Baptism of Dead Jews (AP) | wowOwow Church Responds to Jewish News Statements - LDS Newsroom The fact is that ordinances for the dead are limited to your own ancestors for numerous reasons. Unwanted press is one of them. The Lord is merciful and will see to it that everyone who has lived and will yet live on the earth will have the chance to hear the gospel and accept it and the ordinances of salvation. The Lord invites us to help Him, but we don't need to overstep our bounds - particularly with those who are deceased that are not in our own lineage.

How would you tithe on the increase of services on your behalf that you're not paying for? After all, isn't expendable labor a form of "increase"?

I don't think a special program is necessary. There are already wards for different languages, single or family wards... I don't think there needs to be a ward for those with same-sex attraction. That would send a mixed message - and an inappropriate message at that. There are services offered to those serving in prisons, so they are taught (just like PrisonChaplain), but it doesn't mean they can participate in the full blessings of the gospel until their sentence is served and full repentance is made (if possible). I'm thinking that a support group may be good? Just as there are support groups for those battling with pornography, this might be good. It would need to be organized on a stake level and probably would have the requirement that you are not in a co-habitation situation in order to show that you're serious about the gospel. Everyone is allowed in church. What wouldn't be appropriate is someone to come to our meetings with "Gay Pride" attire or symbols, or with an affectionate partner and displaying inappropriate behavior. (It's my opinion that any "lisp" should not be used in speech. It just seems like such a dead giveaway.) Why? Not to avoid contention or draw attention to oneself. It's because it's the Lord's Church and the Lord's Gospel and our Heavenly Father's plan. If they believe that the Traditional Family is the core unit of society and needs preserving and that other relationships are sinful, then they are in the right frame of mind towards repentance. Missionaries are to teach this plan and get the investigator's feelings about it. It is up to the investigator to live their life in accordance with the Gospel and then feel the fellowship of the saints and feel of the spirit. Just my quick thoughts.

A Bishop/Branch President is NOT a psycologist. Bishops/BP help with the repentance process, but they are NOT trained in giving mariage counseling or therapy - at least not on the professional level that some people need.

If the insurance has "made you whole" then there is no increase, therefore no tithe. If you have a "profit", then you should tithe on the amount that is above the amount to make you whole. So, let's say your car was totaled and it would cost $10,000 to replace it. You got a check for $12,000. Take $10,000 to buy the replacement car and tithe on the $2,000, or $200. Does that make sense?

Sometimes we just need to "get over ourselves".

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Prepare for Blessings of the Temple Jim, The Temple is not open to the public. It is a sacred house of the Lord. As such, there are worthiness questions that our Judges in Israel ask to be sure that we are living our lives in harmony with the Lord's will for us. The link above may help give more perspective on this process and the purpose behind it. If we do as Christ wants us to do, we will be eligible to enter the Temple. Our Judges in Israel (Bishops and Stake Presidents) are there to help guide us and help us along the path. One symbol of our faith and of how well we are doing is always holding a current temple recommend and living our lives so that we are always eligible to hold that recommend.

I've heard similar stories, but nothing first hand. It's not about seeing the inside of the temples, but the ceremonies being performed. They think they can learn about everything and then "expose the secret mormon rituals" and make a lot of money selling books and videos. Ed Decker come to mind?

I don't mind the mistakes... just pick a different font color so we can READ your post! :)

But we should endeavor to stand in holy places more often than not.

You are not investing in order to make other people lose so you can win. If the markets were "normal", I'd advise you to study Modern Portfolio Theory behind investment allocations.

Rachelle, I have no words of wisdom for you as I hope to never be in or cause a similar situation. Take care of yourself... but more importantly take care of your son. Focus on HIM for a while and forget yourself for a while. I think you'll find some peace and reassurance by doing this. If you have family close to you, you might want to stay with them for a while.

For me, I participate in a number of online forums (I've GOT to get a life!:)). It's important to BE a person that people look up to - both online and in the "real" world. BE genuinely yourself. BE a disciple of Christ. BE someone worth looking up to and a leader in life. When you're the RIGHT person, "your actions will speak so loudly that your words [just won't matter as much]." You will be an "attractive" person - meaning that your qualities will attract similar like-qualities in others and build each other up.

Kinda like the guy on The Mummy (1999) who used numerous religious symbols to try to "save" himself from the mummy?

I agree that because of the flesh, we are unable to keep the law 100%. As far as thoughts being a sin... it depends on how quickly they stay in your mind and how often you "entertain" those thoughts. Unfortunately I have a very carnal mind. I have bad thoughts that come into it - NOT because I want these thoughts and NOT because I indulge in activities that encourage these thoughts. They just pop in. I quickly analyze these thoughts and dismiss them as they are NOT the type of thing that I want to indulge in, participate in or act out in any way. Those kinds of thoughts disgust me and I treat the thought as such. As for why they keep entering into my mind? I don't know, but it's all about what you DO about what the thought - do you indulge in it? Fantasize about it? Or do you quickly dismiss it for naught? But it also depends on how we are interpreting the law. Let's look at your list of questions, one by one: Have you ever told a lie? Intentionally telling falsehoods is a lie. This is also a pre-meditated sin - one that you will need to make up your story and keep to it to "keep it believeable". Here you have the thought before the actual telling of the falsehood. Have you been angry? The LORD has been angry. Is the emotion a sin? I would say no. Being angry is not a sin. It's what you DO about it that could lead to sin. Beating your spouse or kids is the sin, not the fact that you're angry. It is possible to be righteously angry. Have you used foul language? The use of foul language is used by someone to impress another. When was the last time you were impressed by the use of foul language? Do you covet? Again, looking for an easy way to satisfy your lusts is not a good thing. Is it "I wouldn't mind having one of those?" or is it "I gotta get that from them somehow!" One will help fuel ambition and self-development while the other encourages laziness and stealing from those who have earned that particular earthly treasure. (Granted, we don't know if someone is a white collar criminal like Madoff, but we are not the law enforcement to sieze their property.) Have you ever stolen anything? Being a thief is not being a disciple of Christ. Do you have thoughts of lust? Being lustful in my heart is not a good thing and can/will lead to inappropriate thoughts and actions. Do you masturbate? (a normal sexual function for men and women) This is dwelling on thoughts and taking an immoral action to "satisfy" those thoughts - and while the world considers it "normal", the LORD does not. LDS.org - Youth Chapter Detail - Sexual Purity Do you keep the sabbath? If your car gets stuck in the mud would you get it out? Would I get my car out of the mud on the Sabbath? Yes, or I wouldn't be able to get to church. Remember that it was under Jewish law that required that you couldn't do certain things on the Sabbath, take so many steps, etc. D&C 58:26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. Sometimes it's more of the Spirit of the Law than the Letter of the Law. We are all on a path towards greater spiritual enlightenment. We're all starting from different points along that path. So, while others may say that I'm not following all the commandments (not necessarily a personal judgement in me, but I'll use me as an example) am I progressing? Am I praying? Am I trying? Am I reading my scriptures? Do I recognize that I'm imperfect but that I strive to be better than I am? I am thankful that I have the opportunity to do my own self-evaluation while in this life and to make the corrections with the Savior's help to help me be a better person, and rely on Christ and His infinite atonement to help me make up in areas that I lack before I am judged by The Father and represented by Christ. You and I have been guilty of our going back and forth - and I will humbly ask for your forgiveness as I hadn't been acting as I should - particularly in this online community.

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Think About What You Are Thinking About

The fact that a negative/bad/sinful thought entered into your mind is NOT a sin. This is normal and part of the human experience. Letting yourself dwell on it IS. Acting on it is. As an old LDS saying goes: "If you don't look once, you're not a man. If you look twice... you're not a missionary." Should we have disciplined thoughts? Yes - inasmuch as we can control them. We can't always control what we think, but we can control what we DO with that thought. I hope this helps some?

Bro. Rudick, Jim and I disagree on many things, but we're starting to communicate. And I for one, agree with you. But let me defend why they may carry crosses, use crosses on their churches, etc. The Savior Himself references the tool of his death many times - including in the Book of Mormon and in the Doctrine & Covenants. Granted, we believe in a LIVING Christ and don't wish to be reminded of the cruel way that He gave up His life. The Savior said that "This is the only True and Living Church" - living being the key in why we don't have crosses on our buildings. But for some, having a physical reminder of what it means to follow Christ (like a cross) may just help them. We believe in a literal translation of the scriptures... why not a "literal" cross to help remind those who hold it to make good choices? As Jim says many times... whatever helps you to follow Christ.