Justice

I've seen something very similar and had similar thoughts. One thing that's interesting is that horses are mentioned in Ether (the Jaredite record) and the markings on the rocks I've seen have horses on them. Most think horses didn't arrive here until the Spaniards brought them. These rocks and the record of Ether both say otherwise.

Omni: 15 Behold, it came to pass that Mosiah discovered that the people of Zarahemla came out from Jerusalem at the time that Zedekiah, king of Judah, was carried away captive into Babylon. and 20 And it came to pass in the days of Mosiah, there was a large stone brought unto him with engravings on it; and he did interpret the engravings by the gift and power of God. 21 And they gave an account of one Coriantumr, and the slain of his people. And Coriantumr was discovered by the people of Zarahemla; and he dwelt with them for the space of nine moons. 22 It also spake a few words concerning his fathers. And his first parents came out from the tower, at the time the Lord confounded the language of the people; and the severity of the Lord fell upon them according to his judgments, which are just; and their bones lay scattered in the land northward. I noticed today while reading, and remembered what I typed here, that the people of Zarahemla weren't the ones who came from the tower of Babel. The people of Zarahemla left Jerusalem nearly the same time Lehi did. It was the stone that was found that spoke of the Jaredites that I should have linked to a people coming from the tower. Sorry.

Why didn't God just hand Joseph Smith a completed Book of Mormon? Why didn't He strike down everyone that tried to kill him or any of the saints? Why doesn't God just come down and prove to everyone He's real? You can ask these questions all day long... I'd like to hear your answer, to these questions and your own.

I was hoping you would comment on this. If you choose not to, that's OK, but I'll repost it in case you missed it. These words remind me of something said by a GA one time, although I can't remember who or where. He said something to the effect of: Gospel mean good news, and along with the good news there is bad news... we can fail. Repent or perish is a common theme throught scriptures. Alma said that men must be redeemed from the spiritual fall before they are redeemed from the physical fall. If a man is never reedemed spiritually it makes no difference when he dies physically. In fact, seeing from the other side of the veil, the person who is killed for disobedience may have a better chance because of death. I believe some people will accept Christ after they died. If their death can serve as an example to those left behind and help them to accept Christ, then their death is a great showing of mercy. It is for one who lives in eternity and sees all things to decide; it's not mine to judge when my vision is so limited.

You're going to have to go slow: Starting in chapter 9 of Mosiah you will see this: The Record of Zeniff—An account of his people, from the time they left the land of Zarahemla until the time that they were delivered out of the hands of the Lamanites. Comprising chapters 9 to 22 inclusive. Zeniff was the man who led the expedition to find the land of their fathers, or the land of Nephi. After the people of Nephi, under the direction of King Mosiah the first, left the land of their fathers (or the land of Nephi), they found and were united with the land or city of Zarahemla. It was here they found the people who left the old world from the tower of babel (not the jaredites) who didn't bring scriptures with them and who had all but lost their language. It was here that Mosiah taught the people of Zarahemla his language and was made king. This is what is spoken of here: Omni: 27 And now I would speak somewhat concerning a certain number who went up into the wilderness to return to the land of Nephi; for there was a large number who were desirous to possess the land of their inheritance. 28 Wherefore, they went up into the wilderness. And their leader being a strong and mighty man, and a stiffnecked man, wherefore he caused a contention among them; and they were all slain, save fifty, in the wilderness, and they returned again to the land of Zarahemla. 29 And it came to pass that they also took others to a considerable number, and took their journey again into the wilderness. This second group was led by Zeniff. After all that happens from Mosiah 9 to 22, you will see that they went to Zarahemla and were united with the people of Zarahemla, who then were led by king Mosiah, the grandson of the king Mosiah who was first made king there. King Benjamin was the son of king Mosiah the first, and the father of king Mosiah the second. This is briefly explained in chapter 7 by Ammon, who tells of what he found when he found the people of Limhi (who was a decendant of Zeniff). Then, in chapter 23, the record of Alma is inserted, which picks up from when those people were freed from the Lamanites, and journey to the land of Zarahemla, and meet up with them. Alma (Sr) was part of the history of these people who had journeyed from Zarahemla to find the land of their fathers. When they make it to Zarahemla, Alma is put in charge of the church by king Mosiah. I hope this isn't too confusing, but if you go slow I think it'll come to you. Pay close attention to those headings I posted before chapters 9 and 23. You'll get it. These records (of Zeniff and Alma) were added to the Large Plates of Nephi because the Small PLates were not being written in anymore. Amaleki (the person writing in Omni that I posted) gave the Small Plates to king Benjamin after they were in Zarahemla.

What I do is try to open my mind. It sounds easy enough... When most people read they use a filter (for lack of a better term) to understand what they're reading. This filter or screen bounces off everything they don't understand and only lets pass the things they do understand. Maybe once in a while something they don't understand gets filtered through and falls in place. We use a word filter also. We assume we understand what the writer meant by a certain word of phrase and we use that to understand the rest. In both cases it can cause us to misunderstand, or not catch the intended meaning of the scripture. Since I have been making an attempt to read without these filters, my eyes have been opened to many things I never saw before.

Why can't you simply copy and paste the text in question into a new forum entry?

Sean, left click on the person's name in the forum here and it brings up a menu... ... happy private messaging! Edit: Hmmm I see that option is not available for her... I stand corrected.

Yes, what you describe is the classic example of a hypocrite. As I said, in the way I describe it, there's a fine line. I have heard people say, "You learned through experience so you should let your kids do the same." I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying the line can be blurred for some. I gave an example in Seminary one day and some of the students got it, and some didn't. My son was the main one that didn't. In regard to listening to your parents "just because they have experience" I said it's a lot like driving down a road. Regardless if you like it or not, your parents are farther down the road than you are. They have handled the sharp curves and hit the pot holes. Being in the car behind them, you have the opportunity to learn from their path and avoid turns too sharp and possibly a wreck, or avoid pot holes that will bump and jar you. Many got it, but on the way to school afterward, my son said, "Dad I want to pick my own roads and hit my own pot holes." Whenever I gave this oldest son counsel or advice, he always asked, "didn't you do this or that?" If I answered honsetly, sometimes I'd have to say of course. He saw it as me being a hypocrite if I did something and counseled him not to. This oldest son of mine has had to learn many things in life the hard way. My other 3 children are not like my oldest in this regard. They love reading their scriptures and going to church. They are first up and first dressed Sunday morning. They listen. The heart of what I'm getting at is the Savior's life is the only one we measure to. He lived the only perfect life. Although Joseph Smith was a wonderful man and prophet, he would never counsel you to follow him, because he would lead you down the wrong path at certain points during his life. Why follow one who follows? Yet, even though he would not tell anyone to follow him, he still taught correct principles, even if they were mistakes he made. Honestly, some of the best teachers can be ones who have made mistakes. I bet Joseph Smith knew better than any other man that ever lived why when the Lord gives you an answer, you should accept it instead of going back to Him a 2nd or 3rd time. So, I said there can be a fine line between the 2 at times... not that one who teaches correctly, even though he learned through experience, is a hypocrite. We as parents and friends need to understand this. It's hard for people who lack expeprience to understand the difference at times. It's hard for some to know how they can learn if they don't experience. Some have the gift of learning from other's mistakes, some do not.

You might be walking a fine line here. I have learned that there is a fine line between teaching correct principles and being a hypoctire. We must teach correct principles. If a father once experimented with drugs as a youth, he must still teach his children that they are wrong and can destroy them, even though he has overcome them and changed his life. It might make him a hypocrite, but it's the right thing to teach his children. I would have to say lustful desires are always wrong, and are a result of following after the natural man. That doesn't mean I have never felt them, it means I was being natural and not spiritual when I felt them. They can be overcome. Matt. 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. And, Jesus said to the prostitute who was caught in the very act and brought before Him: John 8: 11 ...Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Perfection is expected of us. That is why we work toward it. If it was not expected then we wouldn't work toward it. You should expect and require it of yourself. We are working toward being perfect through repentance, which was made possible by the atonement of Christ. If it was not necessary for each of us to be perfect, there there would have been no need for the atonement. Perfect is what was in mind when we were created. It is the final state of being for all those who inherit Celestal Glory. The only way you need not seek for perfection is if you don't seek for the Celestal Kingdom. Of course, it's impossible to man... but not to God. God can help us become perfect, it is impossible to man alone. Only one person who has ever dwelt on this earth lived a full life of perfection. Even those who lived in the City of Enoch, and even the 2,000 stripling warriors did not live perefect lives. However, these and many others had their calling and election made sure through Christ because of their exceeding faith in Him. It doesn't mean they were perfect their entire lives. It means with God's help they obtained it. Baptism and a broken heart and contrite spirit with constant attention to our spiritual self and activities, along with partaking of the sacrament and attending the temple regularly CAN make us perfect. That is the big secret. :)

I really am very confused how a person of your intelligence can be so, well, intelligent, but not see this point. Here is President Faust speaking of the Book of Mormon: What It Is and Is Not ...The Book of Mormon establishes the truthfulness of the Bible. It is evidence “to the world that the holy scriptures are true.” It foretells the establishment of the fulness of the gospel of peace and salvation. It was written to give us principles and guidelines for our eternal journey. One of the ultimate messages of the Book of Mormon, and indeed of the Old Testament and all human history, is that mankind cannot reach perfection on our own. There is another message that comes through loud and clear from its pages. It is the often unpopular and seemingly harsh injunction “Repent or perish.” When the Book of Mormon people listened to this prophetic message, they flourished. When they forgot the message, they perished. In Galatians Paul said, “The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ.” The records maintained by the Book of Mormon prophets—and portions of what is now the Bible brought from the eastern continent—served, according to Abinadi, “to keep them in remembrance of God and their duty towards him.” So the Book of Mormon is a schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. Scriptural and Personal Testimonies The test for understanding this sacred book is preeminently spiritual. An obsession with secular knowledge rather than spiritual understanding will make its pages difficult to unlock. Article: LDS.org - Liahona Article - The Keystone of Our Religion It's called revelation, Snow. Alma 5: 45 And this is not all. Do ye not suppose that I know of these things myself? Behold, I testify unto you that I do know that these things whereof I have spoken are true. And how do ye suppose that I know of their surety? 46 Behold, I say unto you they are made known unto me by the Holy Spirit of God. Behold, I have fasted and prayed many days that I might know these things of myself. And now I do know of myself that they are true; for the Lord God hath made them manifest unto me by his Holy Spirit; and this is the spirit of revelation which is in me. 47 And moreover, I say unto you that it has thus been revealed unto me, that the words which have been spoken by our fathers are true, even so according to the spirit of prophecy which is in me, which is also by the manifestation of the Spirit of God. Spending time in scientific journals and history books will never cause a man to know that the scriptures are true. Alma did not say "I know they are true because an angel appeared unto me," or "I know they are true because I studied the Brass Plates and the Large Plates of Nephi." Certainly, the angel helped. Certainly, the historical records helped. But, Alma did not come to know they were true until he fasted, prayed, and sought for the confirmation of the Holy Spirit. Snow, I know the scriptures are true. This is not a lame attempt to bear my testimony so you might feel the spirit. It is a solemn declaration of what I know to be true. There is no attempt to deceive or fraud. The Book of Mormon is true, as is the Bible. I did not learn it at NationalGeographic.com, nor by spending time in my local library. Jesus Christ was born as the Son of God and Only Begotten of the Father, and I know this because the Spirit has confirmed to me that the scriptures are true. As far as Lucille Ball washing your clothes... it doesn't matter.

I claim scripture is evidence. We've gone through this before.

This is why Christ had to be born of a mortal mother. The rest is reasonable and logical deduction.

I wasn't sure, I just copied him.

Yes. A mother with blood flowing through her veins gives birth to children with blood flowing through their veins. A mother who has a body that is quickened by spirit give birth to children who have bodies that are quickened by spirit. That's a prerequisite to understand the fall.

We can site that as evidence that He once did.

Well, except that Milton Berle's dog isn't mentioned in scripture as the tempter...

Not sure I understand this. Can you elaborate?

Exactly. Alma 12 and 42 state over and over that death was not only part of the plan, but the driver. Alma 12: 24 And we see that death comes upon mankind, yea, the death which has been spoken of by Amulek, which is the temporal death; nevertheless there was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead. 25 Now, if it had not been for the plan of redemption, which was laid from the foundation of the world, there could have been no resurrection of the dead; but there was a plan of redemption laid, which shall bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, of which has been spoken. 26 And now behold, if it were possible that our first parents could have gone forth and partaken of the tree of life they would have been forever miserable, having no preparatory state; and thus the plan of redemption would have been frustrated, and the word of God would have been void, taking none effect. In short, if it weren't for this "state" or "condition" of death, or mortality, God's plan would have been frustrated. Alma 42: 1 And now, my son, I perceive there is somewhat more which doth worry your mind, which ye cannot understand—which is concerning the justice of God in the punishment of the sinner; for ye do try to suppose that it is injustice that the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery. 2 Now behold, my son, I will explain this thing unto thee. For behold, after the Lord God sent our first parents forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground, from whence they were taken—yea, he drew out the man, and he placed at the east end of the garden of Eden, cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the tree of life— Adam and Eve, or our first parents, were [drawn] out of the garden before the cherubim and flaming sword were placed to keep the way of the tree of life. Notice the guard was in place to keep "the man" from the tree of life. 3 Now, we see that the man had become as God, knowing good and evil; and lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever, the Lord God placed cherubim and the flaming sword, that he should not partake of the fruit— This would now be a more general statement, and explains that it is speaking of all men now, since all men, after they are born and eventually sin become as God knowing good and evil, need a mortal life to sin and repent. Since Adam and Eve chose mortality for themselves and all their posterity, we did not make that choice, therefore we are Redeemed from physical death automatically by the merits of Christ. Christ is now the fruit of the tree of life for us. 4 And thus we see, that there was a time granted unto man to repent, yea, a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God. This probationary state is the state of death, or separation from God. 5 For behold, if Adam had put forth his hand immediately, and partaken of the tree of life, he would have lived forever, according to the word of God, having no space for repentance; yea, and also the word of God would have been void, and the great plan of salvation would have been frustrated. Because there would have been no state of death for man, or no mortal probation period (called death) for man to repent and learn to serve God. For some reason mortality is the driver. It is the driver, again, because if Adam and Eve had partaken of the tree of life immediately after eating the forbidden fruit, they would have become immortal, being redeemed from physical death BEFORE they were redeemed from spiritual death (or repented and overcame the natural man). Because they partook of the forbidden fruit: 7 And now, ye see by this that our first parents were cut off both temporally and spiritually from the presence of the Lord; and thus we see they became subjects to follow after their own will. If they were not allowed the choice, at that point, to partke of the tree of life, then they were not free, making the scriptures wrong. 8 Now behold, it was not expedient that man should be reclaimed from this temporal death, for that would destroy the great plan of happiness. 9 Therefore, as the soul could never die, and the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord, it was expedient that mankind should be reclaimed from this spiritual death. In short, man had to be redeemed spiritually BEFORE he was reclaimed physically. If it had happened in the reverse order, it would have meant all mankind was lost and fallen because all men were born into the fallen world as immortals... meaning eventually so would have Christ been morn immortal, making it impossible for Him to suffer, bleed, and die. The Redemption of man would have been impossible because the atonement required a blood sacrifice of the perfect Son of God.

Yeah, I made a lot of assumptions. Mostly, for effect. But, partly because IF Satan were to speak he would be found speaking against Christ, or anything He stands for... repentance being the topic. We've discussed it before, and I'm still not really sure how temptations happen. But, the scriptures are clear that he is here to tempt us to act contrary to what we know to be right. And, partly logic. If the right thing is to speak to the Bishop to seek honest and sincere repentance, then it just *seems* that Satan would tempt contrary to doing the right thing. Snow, I think he "speaks" to you through temptations more than you know... in whatever way he is allowed.

To continue this thought a bit... Doesn't mortality become the driver for the plan? Doesn't mortality become the only way in which a Savior can be born? The entire purpose for the creation was to act as a "safety net" to those who fall. Instead of falling from the presence of God spiritually, which is eternal (because that's where God dwells--and where the fall would have taken place) the creation allowed for a fall to a temporary state in which man was given time before he was judged finally. Since a voluntary Redeemer was allowed to be born mortal, and that Redeemer could literally reverse the effects of the fall of mankind in His own body, He could pass that on to all who were mortal and died because of His victory over death. Then, all who stand before God in a penitent state, with a broken heart and contrite spirit, relying on the merits of the Redeemer, will be as if there was no fall, and be restored to their presence with the Father, having gained the knowledge of good and evil, and having made certain covenants and ordinances that allow them to "inherit all that God has." Or, in other words, they will be like God. So, wouldn't it make sense that Satan wanted to remove mortality? (See Alma 12 and 42)

Of everything you quoted and stated, I see only one contradiction or disagreement between what I believe, and have said, Alma taught in 12 and 42... and that is this: Again: If, according to the earliest scriptural accounts, God prevented Adam and Eve in Eden from partaking of the fruit of the tree of life If you believe this, then you also believe God interfered with their agency. If God prevented Adam and Eve from partaking of the tree of life immediately after partaking of the forbidden fruit, then He interfered with their agency. So, regardless of the wording in the scriptures, which can often be misleading, you have to ask yourself, "Would God have interfered with their agency?" Your answer to this question will (must) dictate how you interpret the rest of the scriptures regarding the fall. I have asked myself this question many, many times, over the period of 20 years or more, and I have finally answered it no. This can only mean that He allowed them the choice to partake of the tree of life after partaking of the forbidden fruit. Now, does scripture support this? Well, in EVERY case where the scriptures say God placed a cherubim and flamming sword to keep the way of the tree of life, He did so AFTER Adam and Eve were removed from the Garden. You can argue they were removed from the Garden SO THAT THEY would not partake of the tree of life. You can if you want, but if that were the case, there would be no need to place a guard on it after they left, would there? No, they left after making the choice not to, and the guard was placed for someone else. Scripture CAN support this, if interpreted accordingly. I believe God did not take away their agency to follow His plan, or to follow Lucifer's plan. This is the basis for my interpretation. One more thing, I also take exception to the comment immediately following the one I quoted: (and thereby prevented them from living in mortality forever) The person who made this comment did not think it through long enough to realize it is impossible to be mortal and not die. They used a false premise to arrive at a false conclusion. The fact is, once they partook of the forbiden fruit they became mortal, and they were going to die. Scripture supports this. The only way to remedy this was to follow Lucifer's plan for them and eat of the tree of life before having offspring, and before leaving the Garden. That is why it was so appealing to so many when he presented it to pre-mortal spirits. It seemed sound. This would have eliminated man's mortal probation period. This does NOT mean man would have remained mortal forever, as this supposed expert stated. It means they would have become immortal, with no chance at redemption, for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post. However, the rest of the comments you posted, and your comments as well, I agree with. I had a longer post with more explanation, but I feel it best to stop it here.

I believe that the "guard" not being placed until after they left is evidence they were given a choice. I believe the mandate to be removed from the Garden was for "man" or man's posterity. Men who were born mortal by no choice of their own would be redeemed to immortality by no choice of their own through Christ. Hence, this redemption was already planned for.

Satan wants you to continue to keep it a secret. He tells you that you should be man enough to overcome it by yourself. He tells you that you don't need Christ or the atonement. He tells you not to talk to your Bishop. I would say your prayers to the Lord and repentance would get a lot more sincere if you did all you could to stop... which includes speaking to your Bishop.

This is clearly spelled out in Alma 12. Lucifer did not thwart his own plan, Adam and Eve thwarted his plan. Had Lucifer's intention ONLY been to thwart God's plan, all he had to do was leave Adam and Eve in the Garden, untempted. No, he wanted more; he was trying to accomplish HIS plan... yet, it meant he had to carry out God's plan to a point. First, some background. Early in chapter 12 Alma is explaining how Satan works. He is about to tell people what Satan's plan was. If you look, he begins, and restates twice, and then is interrupted by Zeezrom with a question about resurrection. So, he returns to the topic of resurrection, which Amulek just taught. Then, another man named Antionah asked another question: 20 But there was one Antionah, who was a chief ruler among them, came forth and said unto him: What is this that thou hast said, that man should rise from the dead and be changed from this mortal to an immortal state, that the soul can never die? 21 What does the scripture mean, which saith that God placed cherubim and a flaming sword on the east of the garden of Eden, lest our first parents should enter and partake of the fruit of the tree of life, and live forever? And thus we see that there was no possible chance that they should live forever. Obviously, they misunderstood why and when God placed the "guard" on the tree of life. If you look at every account of God placing the guard on the tree of life it is always AFTER Adam and Eve are removed from the Garden and AFTER they already made their choice. So, God did not place the guard to prevent Adam and Eve from partaking. Had God placed the guards to prevent Adam and Eve from eating the tree of life AFTER they partook of the forbidden fruit, they would not have had agency. Now, follow this closely: 22 Now Alma said unto him: This is the thing which I was about to explain. Now we see that Adam did fall by the partaking of the forbidden fruit, according to the word of God; and thus we see, that by his fall, all mankind became a lost and fallen people. Alma is saying he was about to explain Satan's plan before he was interrupted. So, now he explains Satan's plan, and the consequences. Notice how he begins by saying that Adam DID partake of the forbidden fruit, according to the word of God. And, as a result of this all mankind became lost and fallen. 23 And now behold, I say unto you that if it had been possible for Adam to have partaken of the fruit of the tree of life at that time, there would have been no death, and the word would have been void, making God a liar, for he said: If thou eat thou shalt surely die. Why would Satan want Eve (and Adam) to partake of the forbidden fruit? Why would he tempt them to do so? Because that was the only way that God's other children would come to earth. If Satan is going to rule over all, he needs access to all. So, his plan was exactly the same as Father's up to the point where Eve partook of the forbidden fruit. God wanted them to fall and become mortal. We know this is the only way for man to be saved at this point. But, why? We'll get back to that. From this we learn that Satan wanted Adam and Eve to partake of the tree of life immediately after they partook of the forbidden fruit. Why? What were the consequences? There would have been no mortality, or no death. Why is this significant? 24 And we see that death comes upon mankind, yea, the death which has been spoken of by Amulek, which is the temporal death; nevertheless there was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead. Had Adam and Eve partaken of the tree of life immediately after the forbidden fruit, there would have been no death, or no probationary state for man to prepare to meet God. It was expedient that man FIRST be saved spiritually, and then physically. Had they immediately partaken of the tree of life and became immortal, then a mortal Messiah, or Redeemer could not have been born to redeem man. Thus, mankind was lost and fallen forever. All of the offspring of Adam and Eve would have been born immortal (just like during the Millenium). 25 Now, if it had not been for the plan of redemption, which was laid from the foundation of the world, there could have been no resurrection of the dead; but there was a plan of redemption laid, which shall bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, of which has been spoken. The Plan of Redemption included death, because it included redemtion from death. 26 And now behold, if it were possible that our first parents could have gone forth and partaken of the tree of life they would have been forever miserable, having no preparatory state; and thus the plan of redemption would have been frustrated, and the word of God would have been void, taking none effect. The word of God, or the Word of God, or Christ would have been made void, taking none effect... because He would have been born immortal. It would have been impossible for Him to purge His blood, atone, and die to be resurrected. 27 But behold, it was not so; but it was appointed unto men that they must die; and after death, they must come to judgment, even that same judgment of which we have spoken, which is the end. 28 And after God had appointed that these things should come unto man, behold, then he saw that it was expedient that man should know concerning the things whereof he had appointed unto them; 29 Therefore he sent angels to converse with them, who caused men to behold of his glory. 30 And they began from that time forth to call on his name; therefore God conversed with men, and made known unto them the plan of redemption, which had been prepared from the foundation of the world; and this he made known unto them according to their faith and repentance and their holy works. I believe they knew as much as it was possible for them to know of the Plan of Redemption while in the Garden of Eden. But, they did not understand death. It wasn't until they had first hand knowledge of spiritual death that they could fully understand the need for a Redeemer. So, then the plan was manifested to them by angels. I believe what is missing from the Adam and Eve account is Adam and Eve's second choice... NOT to eat the tree of life, and to be removed from the Garden and enter mortality. It had to be a choice, because God did not place the guard on the tree of life until after they were removed. This is the choice they are honored for, not for the choice of partaking of the forbidden fruit. Although, one led to the other.