Fiannan

I don't know...I noticed a big article in Expressen (a Swedish newspaper) and it took a fun approach to the topic and listed a bunch of things about the church. The only bad thing is now a lot of Swedish gals will want to meet our missionaries and they may be disappointed when they expect one that looks like Brad Pitt and instead get one that looks like Pedro.

You show your own prejudice in your verbiage. Yeah, I'm the one with a problem... Yeah, racial profiling is wrong...except if you are a Democrat demogogue and just assume that black voters should vote for you just because you are a Democrat.

It is still the same way too. And now the congress passed a bill to ask European visitors to the USA what their political stances are and their sexual orientation. Never know when a bi sexual female student socialist from Norway might go on a jihad I guess.

I have nothing against Muslims in the least -- as long as they don't consider me a dhimmi or my daughters as kafir then everything is fine. Just curious, a Muslim male is told he can marry a woman who is Jewish or Christian but not a pagan infidel. Of course, a Muslim woman is forbidden to marry a Christian man or Jew. The point is that it runs against Islam for a Muslim male to allow his children to be raised anything but Islamic. How can a Christian woman resolve this problem?

Ah yes, America -- land of the free and home of the victims. Sometimes a video says it all -- from The Eagles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdaM8mxEBtY

It is absolutely absurd to believe that one cannot love two people at once (romantic love). If one can love children equally (even if you have 20) then you can love more than two adults. The Koran, which is closer to the culture of the Middle East and the Bible's original intent than what goes for Christianity today, says one should love each wife equally or not enter into polygamy. Of course, I could imagine that if you had two or three wives you might find different things you enjoyed with each -- maybe one would be more outdoorsy while the other was more into culture while the other...That does not mean you would love them less though. I suspect that part of believing that one cannot accept multiple love is not only based on outdated western notions (when the Catholic Church was organized it was just assumed that you had a wife but also had access to slave girls or mistresses) but also on the idea that (Freud) that one's spouse is actually a projection of the opposite sex parent. Just speculation in that area though. Ideas?

Careful there...Elphaba doesn't seem a big fan of psychoanalytic thories or of individual psychology. So bringing up Carl Jung... You've gone from an obssession with Freud to an obssession with this "Elphaba" person. Ewwwww. Jaynee Doe Hey, careful...you could be showing early signs of paranoia and narcissisistic personality disorder if you believe that.

So education isn't the only requirement for high school graduation or beauty pageants. If she were from a well connected Texas family and male, then she could still grow up to be President. Yeah, and if she couldn't find Bosmia on the world map after voting for sending troops there she could become the senior Democratic senator from Oregon or if she didn't know the difference between a Sunni and Shia Muslim she could become the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.

Careful there...Elphaba doesn't seem a big fan of psychoanalytic thories or of individual psychology. So bringing up Carl Jung...

Elphaba I thought this thread would be some attack on George Bush or something. Oh well.

You know, this is going to sound really New Age but then again fundamentalists claim the LDS Church is totally New Age so... I have a book I ordered from Dr. Melvin Morse's (hope I spelled that right) organization -- he started out a pediatric doctor who was raised Jewish but became atheistic. He studied near death experiences in hopes of finding the neurological answer to them (not believing in anything else) so as to apply some sort of study to assist reviving patients in deep comas. As time went on he found that secular science could not explain NDEs and while he believes in "God" it seems akin to new age thinking. The book I have is one that deals with experiences BEFORE birth -- that is, psychic experiences involving the pre-existence usually involving visitations from spirits desiring to be born but also NDEs where people have met the children they were to bring into the world. One of the things that seemed intriguing was the idea some people mentioned of children (in the PE) trying to influence couples to get together so they could come into the world. Now Brigham Young said that if the veil were lifted we would discover that there are many ministering angels as well as spirits surrounding us. Jews believe that when Moses recieved the 10 Commandments that all Jews deceased as well as to be born were witnesses. Now that may really complicate our ideas of human relationships! Most of us believe that when we have strong "chemistry" with someone of the opposite gender that maybe Satan is tempting us to do evil (have sex) but is it far fetched to speculate that some of that "temptation" could be from spirits desiring to come to earth through such unions? If we can speculate that babies are very emotionally based and self centered (not really knowing right from wrong) and part of the maturing process on earth is to gain insights into obedience then perhaps our spirits in the pre-existence are also totally emotionally based and essentially "innocent" of wanting to do harm. In that way (since we are taught that spirits in the PE are so anxious to come to earth that they don't care if they are born as one-legged goat herders in the countains of Afghanistan) then maybe some of those temptations are not so hormonal or Satanic. Is this really off base? As for finding the perfect mate then one could also speculate that God's ways and man's ways are not in accordance with one another. I had a patriarch who told me that age should not matter since the person you are with may be younger in age on earth but older than you in the eternal perspective. Also, if Brigham Young was meant to be with his wives by God, as David was given his forst 6 wives by God according to the Prophet Nathan, then maybe there are more "Mrs. Rights" out there but you won't find that out until the next life. Also, I once asked an institute director about couples that hate each other but are sealed together and stay together for the kids sakes or for whatever reason -- will they be re-assigned in the next life? He said that once most of these coouples see each other in the next life doing God's work as well as being free of this life's anxieties and negativities then these people will be totally united with each other in even higher levels than we expect from people on earth totally connected. Yet what of divorce? I know plenty of people whose patriarchal blessings mention something important in their lives or the lives of their children that never happened with the first wife for instance but later did get fulfilled with the second. Yet blessings were fulfilled with the first. That means that God knew they would marry, divorce and marry again -- so that means a person could get a "yes, marry her" from God because you were supposed to marry her but God also knew a divorce would occur and you'd marry someone else. Perhaps in the next life you'll discover that an ex wife (especially if a cealing took place) is still married to you and your wife you die with. Then add to that those "right ones" you could have married but were prevented by social customs and laws from doing so... Thoughts?

I would like to start a discussion here on something that came to my mind this morning on the way to work. First, are certain couples in a way predestined to meet and marry and are children in the pre-existence in some way able to try to bring certain people together. It's really late and I would like to share some more insights and questions but I'll postpone that for a few hours. Feel free to speculate.

Black people were nopt "cursed" in the way I think you take it but were not allowed to have the priesthood until revelation could restore it. Several Church prophets took this matter up in prayer to God and it was not until President Kimbal did it that it was revealed to allow it. Were the Church just a manmade organization then it would have been easy to lift the ban, or not have it -- as you may know Joseph Smith conferred the priesthood on several black men before being instructed not to do so anymore, but the Church did not take the easy route -- it took the route it was directed to do. By the way, in the Old Testament not only were all gentiles denied the opportunity to have the priesthood but most men of the Tribe of Israel since they were not of the Tribe of Levi.

Lacuna Coil "Entwined" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-4OZYnkJCU...ted&search= Nightwish "Nemo" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAsqNog7pmI Creed "With Arms Wide Open" The first link has an excellent song with a simple video. The other two are incredible videos containing songs with a very religious undertone.

Actually, in a spiritual sense being a Muslim would be more positive than being an atheist. Islam does provide many answers to life's questions (like Chritianity it is an offshoot of Judaism) and I have no doubt that Islamic people are more happy than atheists on the whole. Elphaba, in case you are into study with the intent to convert (of course I would be pleased if you cam eback to Mormonism but if that isn't in the cards...) check out Harun Yahya's web sites -- he does seem to be quite intellectual in his presentations on God's existence.

Having just arrived home a bit tired (spent the last few days on cruise ship destined for Helsinki and back) I think I'll just post a pic and leave it at that for now :

Yeah, if Craig and Foley had been democrats they would have been hailed as heros like Gerry Studds was. By the way, Foley was one of the most liberal republicans in the congress. So where is the hypocracy except in the media's treatment of him? As for Craig, I have no excuse for him whatsoever. Although Freud explained this sort of thing as either projection or reaction formation. Often the people who scream loudest about how evil pornography is are the biggest consumers.

You know, being a high priest and having young children gives one more opportunities when a speaker is up there who could bore the paint off the walls. You can either nap during the talk (a bonus for HPs) or tickle your child and when they make noise take them out to the foyer and talk with the other dads.

Just curious -- in fiction who are your favorite anti heroes? I'll start: Clint Eastwood's various characters in those "spegetti westerns", Barnabas Collins, Charles Bronson's character in "Once Upon a Time in the West".

In the past British and French skipped bathing and brushing teeth -- maybe they were ahead of their time?

Careful, the more times goes on the more it appears we aren't all that much at the opposite of the spectrum.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/14/...ain568259.shtml Also, on endometriosis I have a friend who is considered one of the top fertility doctors in the USA and he also suggested that once a woman with the condition gives birth the problem often goes away. I have also read that in countries where marriage and pregnancy are normal in the teen years that this condition is very rare and only becomes relatively common when marriage patterns change. And Sgallan, you actually prove my point that feminist ideals (those that are good and those that are destructive) have been institutionalized in the US and much of the western world. Yes, many girls in their formative years are getting their views of sex from internet porn and MTV and their view of relationships from soaps and "Sex in the City" reruns.

Why do liberals refuse to talk about the bombing of Serbia by Clinton even though it was in direct violation of international law and opposed by most countries on earth?

Absolutely, positively, incorrrect!!!!! Yes, women in the US and UK are getting more and more obese (if that is an indicator of being well nourished) but aside from this fact causing a great rise in infertility just being more nourished is not pushing the age limit for having children up! About half of women are essentially infertile by age 40. If they do get pregnant in those years their risk of having children with chromosomal birth defects skyrockets -- a woman giving birth at age 45 has a 1 out of 25 chance of having a downs syndrome baby. And that's just one of the problems. It has been reported by medical sources for the last decade that if a woman wants children then waiting until her 30s to have a child may put her at great risk of not being able to get pregnant. True many women have babies in their 30s with no problems but generally speaking these women had pregnancies in their 20s and their bodies are better primed to carry babies as well as conceive them. Women who wait until their 30s to start trying risk all kinds of problems not the least of which is endometriosis. I had a friend in college who developed this condition in her early 20s. Her doctor actually told her the best theing she could do to reverse it would be to get pregnant because without doing this she might become permanently infertile. And as for Sarah the fact she got pregnant at an advanced age was considered a miracle. Medical science is not capable of such miracles on a general scale and these woen you hear about having babies in their 60s are not using their own egg cells -- they carry someone else's donated eggs. The case of the 59 year old British woman who recently became the oldest mother to conceive naturally got headlines due to it being so unusual. Look, I am not debating women's abilities to do well in a number of things. But you can pass all the legislation in the world and not change biology or hard-wired behavioral patterns in our species. If you don't like that take it up with Darwin or God.

Sgallan, maybe you ought to expose your students to other points of view. Yeah, go ahead and make it sound as if the reason most CEOs, long-haul freight drivers and marines are men is because of institutionalized discrimination but that is actually not the case. Women, being the ones who can make babies and being the ones who get sick a lot during pregnancyh and afterwards have the breasts that produce milk, helps to make the saying "anatomy is destiny" the reality of the day. If you are a woman wanting kids your window of opportunity is your late teens to your mid to upper 30s. Sure, you can hope and pray that all your career planning and advancement will leave you an adequate income to have your kid or two when you are 35 - 38 (and you can afford to pay someone else to raise the kid for you) but biology may not be cooperative. Also, women with a more traditional way of thinking in regards to family will start families and forego the kinds of occupations (if they choose to work outside the home) that require 60 hour work weeks or lots of time away from home.