MrNirom

Here it is! July Issue

So.. this is a Myth? If so.. what should it be?

Ah.. good news.. The person that said he objected to our idea of Apostles being restored and being 12 years old.. wrote me back and apoligized saying it should be Deacons.. not Apostles. So I appreciate everyone's input!

Thank you for your kind words... and no need to apologize. I had an experience last Sunday as well. We were in the Gospel Essentials class which is for new members and those investigating the Church. The topic of discussion was Prophets and how we are suppose to listen to their council etc. I thought it appropriate to bring up talks and speeches by past prophets that have now been deemed by the Church as definitely not doctrine, and how we need to learn to verify what they are saying is doctrine.. or opinion. I am certain that this does not happen now as it did when the Church was first organized. The General Authorities are far more careful about what they say now a days. Well.. there were some people that felt this kind of information need not be brought up. I began to wonder.. just when is it brought up? And when if ever will it be brought up with the new members? I have heard more about people leaving the church because they feel that they were not told about things by people of the church.. but by people outside the church. And I can hear their question: Hey.. did they tell you about........? So because the only person that would have been affected by my revealing this was my girlfriend. I have been totally upfront with her about everything and it is much easier for her to deal with it now.. than later. But some of the people then approached her to question her about what was talked about. She let them know that it in no way affects her decision to join the church. I don't know which is the right way or wrong way. I don't want to upset the apple cart either. I understand how the Church tries to put the "human mistakes" behind them and there is no sense dragging it out of moth balls to regurgitate it. But for new members.. it is not behind them. On June 8th was the 30th year anniversary of the Priesthood revelation allowing all worthy men to have the priesthood. Nothing was mentioned in Priesthood or Sacrament meeting. The Church put out a nice video.. but that was about it. I guess they just don't want to talk about it.

I would have a tendency to agree with you. There are many types of investigators. A critical investigator normally has a large volume of information he has procured from people who are not Mormon. Otherwise.. there would be no need to be asking questions from Mormons... as they would be getting their answers met already. They have information.. and want to see How we answer them. Not really looking for the answers themselves. And the information they have.. is questions that most Mormons don't even know about or have not taken the time to find out about. It is kinda like me. I know there is bad stuff that goes on every day in this world. The place to find out about it is the nightly news. I don't watch the news.. so you know what.. My world is much different than those who do. Some of us like to have our faith the same way. Old saying.. Ask me no questions.. I'll tell you no lies. Hey.. it is hard work to find the answers to some of their questions. Most of the time their questions and statement are very hap hazarded with little truth to them. We have search and be 100% accurate otherwise.. we label the "Mormon Religion" as liars.

Short story long. LOL My life: 2 marriages.. 2 divorces.. left the church. (couldn't endure to the end) 20 years later.. decided to reactivate myself due to a new relationship and the fact I quit smoking (That is a story in and of itself). She is taking the missionary discussions. In 20 years.. I found out a lot has changed. On line scriptures that talk. WOW. I never lost my testimony... never even questioned it.. until.. someone sent me a YouTube video. I watched the video.. and then thought.. I wonder if the church has something on here. Did a search: Mormon 1st thing that came up: Cartoon banned by the Mormon church. Hmmm why would they ban a cartoon? I watched it. Oh boy.. I thought.. well this is crap. I make my little comment in comment section.. this is crap. Then it happened. The professional anti's came out of the woodwork. Their questions and comments were 500 characters in length. And it was like.. post.. post.. post. I couldn't even start to type a response.. and there would be a new one. What I read was shocking! This couldn't be true. But there was so much of it. 15, 20 25 questions.. all different.. all about something someone said.. JoD HC Ensign, etc were all being quoted. I was in overload! I really started questioning my faith. I had never heard of this stuff before. How could I have been so wrong? I really got scared. What was I going to do now? It took me a day to calm down. I couldn't even tell my girl friend my feelings as she was just starting to be interested in the church. I didn't want to ruin it for her especially since I didn't have any answers. Hey.. I didn't ask for this.. I wasn't searching any Anti Mormon sites. But it all got put in my lap real quick. Everything from The God Makers to Sandra Tanner to many ex Mormons all telling me how I had been duped. I cried. I mean.. I sobbed because I could not believe all this. "Thank Goodness I did not waste the last 20 years of my life believing in a false church", I was thinking. The next day. I just couldn't swallow defeat. There was something wrong here. There just had to be. I could feel it. I prayed for a way to find the truth. I was on my knees begging for an answer. No special feeling came.. no burning chest.. no calmness over the body.. nothing. I went back to my computer.. went to the LDS website and somehow I found FAIRS. WOW. Here was almost every answer to the questions I was being asked by these Anti's. It was amazing. The Lord did answer my prayer. And as I read the answers.. I now realized... even looking back.. how their questions were designed specifically to hook you. My eyes were opened and I could now see what they were doing. Where before I thought they were trying to help me... but now.. I could really see what they were doing. I then read almost everything I could read about in FAIRS and the other Mormon sites. Now I feel like a soldier armed to teeth. My weapon is knowledge. Now I can tell the difference between someone out to destroy.. or out to learn. And there is nothing anyone can say now.. that would shake my faith. (Lord.. please don't test me) But this is what I can say. To talk about this stuff.. the truth.. really shakes up some people. They don't like it. 34 wives? Joseph had 34 wives? one was 14? and some were still married? Who wants to talk about that? Most don't understand it. I do. It does not shake my faith now. I understand the background on it. 34 wives is the surface part of it. If you didn't know about it.. or didn't know the details.. it could throw you for a loop. But when you learn the history.. the background.. the details.. it all makes sense. It is not what it seemed to be. It is rational.. it is explainable. But it is still uncomfortable. And if someone doesn't know the answer.. they don't want to hear the question. And I think for a lot of Mormons.. they are afraid to say.. I don't know the answer to that question. Because if they did say that.. they too would have to research the answer.:)

I haven't heard anything about this.. but our stake priesthood meeting is Sunday. I can see asking for volunteers.. but then again.. this could be another test from the Lord to see if we will do whatsoever he asks us to do. People have left the Church for less.

I recently was involved in a Missionary lesson by the full time missionaries about this very thing. As they stated.. you are who you are when you die. All of your experiences that make you .. you.. you remain so. It is much harder for someone to accept the gospel.. though possible.. in the spirit world. From my understanding.. Spirit Prison is were you go for being a bad person.. not that you don't have a testimony of the gospel. There are many good people who die.. who go to paradise and are taught the gospel. So the Gospel is being taught in both places.. Paradise and Spirit prison. Just not sure if there is a library there that you can go get a copy of the bible to prove the teachers wrong.

Well.. this should give the Anti's a whole new topic to discuss for awhile. LOL When the Church speaks.. they listen.. and out comes the pamphlets.

Apostates have always been a problem in the Church even way back when after Christ left. The Jews would convinced the new Christian converts of the false teachings that Christ taught.. and then would now have a buddy on their side. This is not a new problem.. Ours is more expanded. Because information 1. Travels much faster.. and 2. There is more to disagree with. Not only do you have to deal with Christianity in it rarest form.. (just the gospel).. we also have to deal with the church's history.. and every member since the restoration. Ours is no easy task. 3. Every one jumps on the band wagon.. because they can. It is so easy to anonymously put down someone else's faith.. create lies about them.. twist their words.. and who is going to hold you accountable? There use to be slander laws.. I think that concept went right out the window here. You can say just about anything you want. And what can they do? Cut you off. So go get a new name with a new email address.. and press on. It is hard to get people to consider a new way of life.. rather than something you do just on Sundays for an hour. And many Christians don't even do that because they believe that all they needed to do was believe, be baptized.. and be done. Many LDS people leave the church because they just can't endure to the end. And that is all. It isn't always about their beliefs or lack thereof. I know of someone who will join the church and their family will have an opposition to it. So they leave for the family.. not because of the doctrine. They find it too hard to live the rest of their life in opposition.. but forget about their salvation for eternity. For most people who grow up in the Church.. and this can be any Church.. you are taught by your parents and you are taught what they believe. And most of the time.. you don't question it. Because of the Anti stuff.. it has shaken many people's belief. Because they have not studied everything about their religion.. the anti's take those things, twist it a bit to fit their needs.. and then present it unexpectedly to the person.. catching them off guard. And because they have created such a long list.. it would take a truly faithful person a lot of time to search out all the claims that are made. These anti sites are not to teach you their ways.. but to destroy yours. Totally opposite of what is Christ like. He did not destroy or criticize other people and their faith.. he only showed the correct way. That is where we and the Anti's differ. They have no regard or respect for anything but defaming what you hold so dear. So unless you are prepared to hear things that they swear are true about your faith.. and they are there to save your soul.. and share with you anything negative they can dig up on anybody in the church.. I would stay away from them. Just my personal thoughts.. And like I have to say on so many sites.. this is in no way official doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I would say at least in Joseph's day. I am just trying to prove to someone that a 12 year old boy was never called as an Apostle of the Church.

Is there a list anywhere that shows who the Apostles of the Church have been in this dispensation? Some once told me that one of them was 12 years old... Is this true? Thanks.

D&C 7 states: 1 And the Lord said unto me: John, my beloved, what desirest thou? For if you shall ask what you will, it shall be granted unto you. 2 And I said unto him: Lord, give unto me power over death, that I may live and bring souls unto thee. 3 And the Lord said unto me: Verily, verily, I say unto thee, because thou desirest this thou shalt tarry until I come in my glory, and shalt prophesy before nations, kindreds, tongues and people. 5 I say unto thee, Peter, this was a good desire; but my beloved has desired that he might do more, or a greater awork yet among men than what he has before done. 6 Yea, he has undertaken a greater work; therefore I will make him as flaming fire and a ministering angel; he shall minister for those who shall be heirs of salvation who dwell on the earth. Can anyone give me more info on this. Explain why if John continued to live.. where did he prophesy before nations, kindreds, tongues and people? Did he bring souls unto the Lord?

Just wondering if anyone has an idea on when Christ died. I heard it was in April.. but what has me confused it the testimony of the Book of Mormon. In 3 Nephi 8 it says: 5 And it came to pass in the a*thirty and fourth year, in the first month, on the fourth day of the month, there arose a great storm, such an one as never had been known in all the land. Now this was the sign that Christ had been slain. It states here.. 1st month. Is that the same as our now 4th month? Thanks in Advance.

11 For I will reveal myself from heaven with power and great glory, with all the hosts thereof, and dwell in righteousness with men on earth a thousand years, and the wicked shall not stand. So.. if all the Righteous leave.. the only ones left are the wicked? So how do we explain the above scripture and what it means?

I know that I believe the rapture is not a correct doctrine to believe in. And what worries me is that so many Christians are going to be waiting for either themselves or at least someone they know to disappear all of a sudden. And as long as it doesn't happen.. they won't believe that tribulation is happening. And then they won't be prepared... and it will surprise them that their was no rapture.... or they will continue to wait for it. Kinda like the Jews thinking Christ was to come in Glory in the Meridian of Time. He came.. but not the way they wanted or expected. And so.. they continue to wait.:)

The reason I bring this up.. and I am surprised that no one else has either.. is this is the scripture that Christians feel defines and justifies the doctrine of the "Rapture". I am trying to refute it. For those who don't know what the Rapture is.. it is a belief that prior to the "tribulations" phase of the 2nd comming.. the Lord takes all the righteous saved people off the earth to live with him in heaven. They call this heaven Paradise. And when Christ does this.. people just float up to meet him in the sky. So you could be driving down the road.. and all of a sudden the person sitting next to you.. floats away. Of course that tells you that you are now damned. So anyway.. I was looking for some deep understanding of this scripture.

I am with you and posting.. :-)

20 years ago I left the church. Since I am going thru this now to be a member again.. I was told that all blessings would be restored to me.. when I got re-baptized. So my priesthood and patriarchal blessing will be restored as if I never left the church. So I told the Bishop I would need a new copy of my Patriarchal Blessing as I have lost it.. and he told me no problem.

Kinda like this earthly period of time is our probation. It is the time we are taught and the time we learn from our mistakes.. and a chance to correct them.. and then comes Judgement.

Here are two passages of scripture that I am trying to understand.. I gave you the links so you can see the verses in context. Can someone explain the interpretations to me.. Thanks. Matthew 24 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Joseph Smith—Matthew 1 44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the last days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left; 45 Two shall be grinding at the mill, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

I think that "whatsoever" the Lord or his servants who are called (The Bishop) have asked us to do.. (the inspiration to direct our lives).. will we follow and obey? Sometimes others may not understand the reason for the directives.. and to speculate would be judgemental... but I am sure it is out of Love that the directive is being given. It is our job to follow regardless of how we feel about it. And I think if the one being given the directive prayed about it.. it would be confirmed. So that would be between the Bishop and the member. Thank goodness we don't have to pray for confirmation about every decision our leaders make about everyperson they deal with. Much to time consuming :-)

Yes.. the Sacrament is to renew your convenants with the Lord that you made at baptism.. I had mine and gave them up. Converts never had them so partaking is more for remembering the Atonement and Sacrifice Christ made for all of us. So I was told by my Bishop to not partake and I agree with him.

I must say this though.. For the twenty years I spent as a non member.. if I had still been a member of the church.. still had my priesthood.. and then did the things I did.... and died. It would have been far better for me to have not been a member than to have been one. The additional responsibility of being a member and hold the priesthood would have required Justice to be more severe. At least that is what I have been taught. But thank you for kind words.

I too am in the same position. 20 years ago.. I asked for my membership to be cancelled. In those 20 years I never denied the church. I have always felt it was true. After quitting smoking on Dec 31.. (it has been 5 Months, 5 Days, 8 Hours and 41 Minutes since my last cigarette.) I decided to start attending church again. Smoking was one the things that kept me from going back to church. I knew that whatever they wanted me to do.. I would do. Getting my membership back is very important. So if I have to attend church for 15 years before my baptism.. then so be it. I am working hard on a daily basis and trying to live the life as a member of the church without the benefits. I knew it was not going to be easy. I can't partake of the sacrament.. can't pay tithes (yet I do donate 1/10 of my income to the humanitarian dept of the church).. I can't give talks or hold a position in the church. It is hard to want to be involved.. but not able to. It is one of those "are you willing to do whatsoever the Lord your God asks you to do?" kinda things... My answer is yes.