MrNirom

50 years? Does everyone here believe that this earth "as it is" today will be around in 50 years? I wonder what the process is for this telestial earth to become terrestrial? We know that the Earth must be terrestrial for Christ to reign his 1000 years.

I don't understand. What could possibly keep you in a church if you don't believe it?

I don't believe that any of us here are going to be able to give you a testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith. That is something that you must do on your own. This whole religion is based on the fact the Joseph had a vision.. and he translated the Book of Mormon by the power of God. If you do not have this as your core belief.. then nothing else of the church will be believable to you either. I would start there. For me.. I got a testimony that the Book of Mormon was true.. then it made Joseph a prophet.. I could not deny it for I could not have the one without the other. Our answers will never convince you.. Only an answer from the Lord by the Holy Ghost will satisfy your questions.

Can I bring out one more point.. It is not homosexuality in and of itself that is the sin.. unless you are defining homosexuality as the act of being homosexual... but it is acting on it that it becomes the sin. It is fine to be heterosexual.. but wrong if you are acting on it and not married. This is only worth one cent..

Kind of like watching 1/3 of the hosts of Heaven leave? I am sure there was a lot of weeping going on there!

That would be a yes. Our church leaders would only tell us that if it came from the Lord. A choice between laws is given. Adam & Eve Be fruitful & multiply Do not eat from the tree of knowledge Abraham Thou shall sacrifice thy son Issac Thou shall not kill Early Saints The new and everlasting covenant - polygamy Obey the laws of the land People have been put in prision and killed in the past for their beliefs. Did the savior not say: Matt. 16: 25 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Mark 8: 35 35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it. Luke 9: 24 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 17: 33 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

It amazes me how Joseph Smith and his family all believed him. Being the oldest of 8 children, I am the only member of the church. And I have one sister who is somewhat active in the Catholic Church. The rest have no interest in God or religion at all.

The stories are out there.. but it does not change the fact that God spoke to him and had him translate the Book of Mormon. Does not the spirit testify to that? Here are some URL's for you to check out:

I would find it very difficult to have to "settle" for a religion I am in because there is nothing better. I was so happy to find the church because I believe I have the truth and there is no need to search elsewhere. When I joined the Church.. I was not "looking" for it.. but the truth of it I could not deny. I feel for people who leave the Church still searching. Would it not be eaiser for everybody in the world.. for him to appear in sky for all to see.. and speak with a voice for all to hear.. and tell us what is the truth... then we shall know! As my wife then says.. where is the FAITH in knowing?

I would have to agree with you. Because we do not have only two places to go.. heaven or hell.. it is harder for us to describe "Are we going to heaven today if we die?" The "ideal" heaven is the top of the Celestial Kingdom. Anything less.. is like.. what? Hell? It is hard to say that God has saved us from Hell... when some of us think we are not doing our best... and hell is the telestial kingdom. Even though we are told what glory the telestial world is.. it is not heaven to us. So to know that right now.. I might be on track to the terrestrial world... it is hard to share with others about the celestial. For narrow is the gate and straight is the path to that kingdom!

The key sometimes is to teach.. without them knowing they are being taught. MrNirom

If Jesus (being in spirit form) was the God of the Old Testament.. would he not also be the God of the Book of Mormon? I don't know why man insists on complicating matters. I was talking with my wife last night and a revelation came to me. Christians had to create a better God than their multi God believing friends. I mean.. how impressive is it to have a God that looks like us.. and has a body of flesh and bone? That just isn't "God" enough.. So let us go and create an image of our God.. that is superior than all other Gods.. and the only way we can do this is to make sure that our God is not so easy to understand. For if he were.. he would not be God.

You have to take a look at the definition of Civil Disobedience and how it worked in this country. Especially for the Church. Here is an example. You are told that our Government wants to round up all non Christians and put them into a concentration camp. Your neighbors are non Christians and have been friends for years. You know that they are being persecuted unjustly. They are in your home. A knock on the door. It is Govt troops asking you if there are any non Christians in your home. What do you tell them? God gave the law of polygamy. God expects the law to be obeyed. You are rewarded in his kingdom for obedience to those laws he gives. Many have died and been imprisoned in the past for obeying Gods laws.

The nature of man is the least path of resistance. Most believe all it takes to make it to heaven is saying your are saved. And for some..maybe.. going to Church for an hour a week. My wife who is getting Baptized tomorrow was one of these Christians. She went to church every Sunday.. and went to a church that has a Starbucks built into it. 1 hour a week for 10 years. No scripture study.. she didn't even pray regularly. Never read her scriptures. But she was baptized and felt she was saved. She told me.. all I wanted was my little corner in heaven. Many of her Christian friends don't even attend Church but still feel they are saved and will go to heaven. I think they preach a lot of Paul. Ye are saved not by works. It is what we call a false sense of security.

In this day and age.. I don't know!

Moksha, In another thread that is closed now.. I asked you about your tag lines.. What I meant by my question was How do you do that. I have not figured it out.

Chaplain, I can see your point. I did post the 2nd commandment just as a reference point and guidance tool. If one sees themself getting to this point.. one should reflect and maybe reconsider. Joseph Smith once said something like.. I teach them the doctrine.. and they govern themselves. I notice that when I am speaking here in these forums.. I am encourage to speak my mind and feelings. But when I am actually with people.. I may think things.. but never speak them.. and most of the time I am re-evaluating my thinking.. and asking the Lord for forgiveness, and try not to do it again. It is so easy here that when you do say how you feel.. it is always IMHO. Kinda gets us off the hook a bit if we are wrong.. And believe me.. I am wrong often.

Chaplain, As I stated.. this was the Gospel according to me. I don't know what the church leaders say about it. This is my opinion. Being raised Catholic.. I do have some issues with it. I kinda know it first hand and practiced it for years. We were encouraged to put a cross with Jesus hanging on it above every bed. To put him in our cars on the dash. To make the sign of the cross anytime we saw something that bothered us. We use to go into the church and kneel before the giant statue of Christ being crucified on the cross.. and pray to it. As a matter of fact, the rest of my family is still Catholic. So I do understand. I don't do that anymore. In the book of revelation, the Apostle John said (Rev. 14:6) "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth" That angel was Moroni, and his place on the top of the temple is significant because of his participation in the restoration of the gospel to the earth in these latter days. We don't stand outside of the temples and worship him or pray to him or kneel to him. I think the worst thing we do is probably take a picture of him way up there. Neither pictures of Jesus nor Jesus statures are found inside the chapels where we do worship. So if they level the same accusations.. it would not quite be the same. :)

You know.. I got married the other day. When I was talking to my sister about it.. I knew she liked details.. So I told her all the things I could remember.. How my wifes eyes sparkled etc. When I spoke with my Brother.. telling him about the ceremony.. I did not include all the same details. I knew that my Brother wasn't interested in that. Now if I wrote down these two accounts.. people would wonder if I am talking about the same ceremony. Joseph did the same.. he adjusted the story.. or the details.. depending on who he was talking to. Make sense? He learned over time.. that people did not respond well to the "all the churches are an abomination" and so he did not offer that detail... or toned it down a bit. Maybe he noticed that people got turned off.. when he mentioned the evil spirit that overcame him... and so.. he decided not to mention that part when telling the story. Each time someone tells a story.. it is really never the same when you are speaking to different crowds.

How long ago did he give you the book?

What do they call themselves? What does the media call them?

Did you say that this happens once a year? So this means you can sin as often as you want for one lamb? Don't tell me that!

I think it is important to point out.. we still practice polygamy today.. but not in the same way the early saints practiced it. If a man marries a woman in the temple for all eternity (sealed).. and she dies. He can take another and be sealed to her for all time and eternity. Now he has two wives. If the 2nd dies.. he can also marry again and be sealed to her... now having 3. We do not practice polygamy where we are married to two or more breathing, living women at the same time.

I think in all fairness.. especially to our anti friends.. we do need to explain that polygamy is still going on.. but not the way people think. If a man marries a woman.. and is sealed to her for all time and eternity.. and she dies.. he can marry another woman.. and also be sealed to her for all time and eternity. So he is now married/sealed to two women. So we still practice it.. but not where we marry two or more living, breathing women at the same time.

I found this interesting: Once Martin found a rock closely resembling the seerstone Joseph sometimes used in place of the interpreters and substituted it without the Prophet's knowledge. When the translation resumed, Joseph paused for a long time and then exclaimed, "Martin, what is the matter, all is as dark as Egypt." Martin then confessed that he wished to "stop the mouths of fools" who told him that the Prophet memorized sentences and merely repeated them.