MrNirom

Why is someone always wanting to play the devil's advocate? hehehe

It is the topic here.. LOL Jim.. if you don't want further posts.. can't you ask a senior monitor to just close this post? Then hurt feelings on the subject can stop.

You know.. I can understand that. Would you believe it if I told you that this little girl also put her Uncle away for 12 years?.. just a year and half before my son. Believe it! Now.. if you were the mother... how much protecting would you do of this little girl?

Jim, You have nothing to be sorry for. It is people themselves who cause the "bad feelings".. I don't think I saw you with a gun to their head. You brought up a topic that affected you. That is what this is all about. Just look at the other titles that are out there right now on this board: How about fornication and adultery? ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) Are there sins that baptism can't wash away? ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) Gay Marriage? ( 1 2 3 ... Last Page) Church Responds to California Supreme Court Same-Sex Marriage Decision I am sure someone is in the bedroom on these topics as well.

No.. she has not yet recanted.. I pray for a softening of her heart that she might someday. As for my son, he spends his sentence one minute at a time. For what more can he do? In the four years he has been incarcerated.. he has not been in trouble once. Most people who know him.. will say he does not belong there. It use to be that a woman would complain of being assaulted.. and nothing would happen. The pendulum now swings to the opposite side where one can get convicted just by being accused. There no longer has to be proof.. Just a belief in what a person says. And in that courtroom.. it was her testimony vs his testimony. They simply believed her. For how can one prove they didn't do something? I don't want to make this thread about my son.. that was not its purpose.. but thank you for asking.

I have to admit it is hard for me to see what you see. You are so far away.. hehehe I would have to politely disagree with you on that one. Let's first look at the Bible and what it says about baptism.. Why it is Essential: Suffer it to be so now to fulfill all righteousness, Matt. 3: 15. 13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Jesus came and was baptized of John, Mark 1: 9. 8 I indeed have baptized you with water: abut he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. 9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. The Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God, being not baptized, Luke 7: 30. 26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet. 27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he. 29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God, John 3: 5. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Repent, and be baptized every one of you, Acts 2: 38. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 ¶ Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Now.. if Christ has already risen.. and his Apostles are still baptizing people by water.. at what point in time did Christ tell them to stop baptizing people? Matt 28: 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mark 16: 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. 12 ¶ After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14 ¶ Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. I think that all the scripture I have given you.. has shown that baptism is essential and all of it came from the Bible so it can't really be that foreign. In the next quote you provided: Lets first of all quote the entire scripture. Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Now when I read this.. I see Paul telling the Ephesians that by taking on the name of Christ.. and following him.. and doing what he as asked of you.. (This is what Faith is) ye are saved by his grace. It is not the boastful good works that will save you. So even if you are a good person your whole life.. and you did nothing wrong.. you can't say.. Lord.. look at me.. I did all these wonderful things. I did nothing wrong...you still could not be saved until you have faith in Christ and become Christ like. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works.. this meaning that when you take upon you Christ.. your heart is changed.. and desire to do only good. And you want to walk in his shoes by doing what he asks us to do and doing what he showed us to do. Christ taught by example. And to do what Christ asks is what? 1. Have faith in him.. 2. Repent of your sins.. (feel remorse for what you have done.. and stop sinning.. go and sin no more.) 3. Be baptized of water. (Christ showed us it was important. He did it himself and he was sinless and had no need for baptism) 4. Receive the Holy Ghost and obey all his commandments. If I were you.. I would take Islander up on his suggestion.... "Keep reading and hopefully you would come to understand the LDS view... Just read it by yourself, meditate and ponder it in your heart." But feel free to ask questions.

From Wikipedia: At least 10 different secondhand accounts refer to a certain cave and events that occurred at the hill in New York.[13] According to one of these accounts by Brigham Young, Smith and Oliver Cowdery went to the hill which opened up and they walked into a cave where there was a large and spacious room filled with wagon loads of metallic plates. The Sword of Laban was on a large table upon which Smith placed the golden plates.[14] The wording of this account and the fact that no such room at the New York hill has been found may imply that the events described occurred in a vision rather than physically,[15] and because archaeological evidence doesn't appear to support the theory that the events described in the Book of Mormon occurred near the hill Cumorah in New York,[citation needed] some have accordingly interpreted this account as a vision. Cerro Vigia LDS scholars have proposed the "Cerro Vigia" (coordinates: 18°33′N 95°11′W / 18.55, -95.183 (Cerro Vigia)) in Veracruz, Mexico, as the hill Cumorah in the Book of Mormon for a variety of reasons. John L. Sorenson has listed 15 cultural criteria (based on contextual clues from the text of the Book of Mormon) for the hill Cumorah. They are: cities, towers, agriculture, metallurgy, formal political states, organized religion, idolatry, crafts, trade, writing, weaponry, astronomy, calendar systems, cement, and wheels. He says that the hill in New York at least partly fits four of these requirements while the "Cerro Vigia" meets all of them.[16]

Why Carol.. there is another thing we have in common. That is the definition of the telestial kingdom. 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore; 110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever; 111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared; 112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end. 113 This is the end of the vision which we saw, which we were commanded to write while we were yet in the Spirit.

Disgruntled members will always find a way out.. Joseph Smith is not the only reason. Critics can find anything wrong with any church. Being of another religion, I think everyone finds other churches questionable. That is why they question even their own. I don't think any church out there recites even 50% of their history to any convert. Not enough time. And the Mormon church has less time in HISTORY than any of them. I think any active, faithful, CONVINCED member of any church would not find anything in their history to topple their faith. Just look at the members of the largest Christian Church in the world who has more history under their belts than anyone. Members aren't exactly running away in droves! Some critics would call that a big.. bad.. "brainwashing".

I just saw a woman of color on the news last night saying that she is pregant with two children.. "One" she says, "is black.. the other white." I was walking through the room at the time to answer the phone. I missed the explaination! Ok.. got the update.. she had the babies about two months ago.. one is black.. the other is white.

I like folfing better! It is golfing with a frisbee. The "cups" look a tree of chains. When the frisbee gets caught in the chains.. it is considered "in the hole". A lot of parks have had these.. but I don't know if it is still as popular as it once was.

You know.. I thought about that a lot. And I have come to the realization that there is "a" truth out there. In other words.. it does not matter what you believe. Let me give you an example. For this.. we must actually define what the Truth is. So for this example.. we will say that everyone goes to heaven. The only ones who go to hell are those that deny the Holy Ghost. It that OK for this example? So.. if the above is the truth.. then does it matter if some church is teaching that everyone is going to hell? Or another church says that only some are going to hell? Or another one says.. only those rich enough to pay will go to heaven? All of what people "believe" does not change "the Truth". Because people believed the earth was flat.. did not make the earth flat! All those who died believing the earth was flat.. found out the "truth" later. So where does that leave us? We all are searching for "the Truth". And how do we find that? What does your Church teach about those that believe in Islam, Budda or are Hindu's? Or through no fault of their own have never heard the Gospel?

My heart goes out to you. My ex and her boyfriend put a wedge between my children and me. When she died in 2000 from cervical cancer.. I had to fight the boyfriend for custody of my children. This was when they were 11, 13, 15. My 11 year old (who is now 19) still wants nothing to do with me. My prayers are with you.

For some.. it does seem to matter. Why? Well we could guess. Our critics would have us believe it was only because of sex. The lustfulness of this evil man. With some of the critical material that is out there.. the critics have stated that the Mormons believe in men who become Gods with endless wives having endless sex to populate their endless worlds. They make it sound very dirty and unrighteous. So when Mormons talk about polygamy.. and I should capitalize the word WHEN.. it is kinda understood that one or two.. maybe three would be acceptable. Anything more becomes outrageous! and then falls into the category of what? crazy? or as some will put it.. sinful, greedy, etc. So when they find out that Joseph had 33 or 34.. (depending on what the definition of "wife" and "marriage" is) it can be overwhelming to some who had no idea. I have heard women tell their husbands that if they were to die.. she hopes he won't marry again. So the idea.. to the majority of LDS women.. of polygamy.. is not too well received. It really wasn't back then.. and it wouldn't be now. Just the fact that we still practice polygamy on a spiritual level upsets many!

My wife has had dreams of things that pertain to her. She has seen herself moving into a home.. later.. she finds that exact home and does. These dreams are what she calls "different". They are more Life Like than a dream. So would you upgrade that to a vision? I don't know. I know that Joseph Smith said their are many things of God and about God that he would not tell us because we could not understand it. I don't know if this would be included in that category or not. But I suspect so. I know there are many things that go on in the background in this great work that our Father in Heaven does. We learned more in 1918 when Joseph F Smith was given the revelation of the redemption of the dead. To learn that there is work going on there. We are not told of what we learned in the pre-mortal existence.. or what was being taught.. or how much time was spent there before coming here. We are only told that it happened. We are not told specifically of everything that goes on there now.. yet I am sure there is much that does. And the reason I feel we are not told.. is that it is not vital to our salvation. It is the icing on the cake. The problem I see.. is that if you give some of us the icing.. that is all we want. We forget about the meat and potatoes and the cake. I have been told by some who have the gift.. that those who die of overdoses are met by others who have crossed over that way too. They have been "assigned" to help. Same for suicides. Now is this important to know? No.. not really. But it is interesting to know of some of the workings going on. To once again realize that our Father in Heaven is very organized and there is a plan and it is in place and working. It is a Marvelous Work and a Wonder. Why do some have gifts and others don't. And what do these gifts mean when seeing future events that sometimes have nothing to do with us personally? How about a testimony that you do have the gift. So pay attention! 15 years ago we would have smirked at someone calling the police to warn them of an impending disaster that they had a "vision" of. It has only been recently that people are "seeing" there is something out there. Psychic detectives helping police to solve crimes. Mediums testifying that there is actually Life after Life. Many television shows are now about this subject. Sometimes people just become more spiritual from these experiences.. and open their minds up to the possibilities that are out there.. That a boy of 14 really could have seen the Father and the Son. Imagine.. the churches of the world say that God does not talk to man and has not since the Apostles were killed. People who had gifts.. were put to death by the Church! When people now speak of things like spirits and gifts... they say.. hmmmm Maybe God does still talk to man. And if he did.. how would he do it? How would one expect it to happen? If you look at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints... that is how he would do it! We do not know all the reasons for everything that goes on. And at most.. it is speculation at best. But we know more than most.

Well.. we have 3 opinions.. all from men.. lets see what a woman has to say about it. hehehe

Your son nor his friend should be punished for parents sin. Even the Church has people who are homosexual.. and heterosexual.. who sin. The Prophet tells us to love the sinner.. and hate the sin. I would not worry but I would at sometime talk with your son so he understands your position on it and how it is a sin in your eyes and in the eyes of God. My two cents.

Wow... that is a big question.. lets start basic.. and move on from there. 1st We believe in on going revelation from a prophet today. 2nd Because we believe in on going revelation.. we will add scripture to our canon. Our holy scriptures are the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and what we call the Pearl of Great Price. 3rd We believe in Apostles.. and have 12 that are part of the General Authorities of the Church. 4th We believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith in 1830.

Very true. The topic should have been: "Heavenly Father on Homo & Hetero Sexual Sins" I am sure Homosexuals also sin in other areas besides the sexual. Am I right here?

To all of you who are pregnant:

You just have to define.. Heaven.

The simple answer is to the first two questions.. and NO to the third[

I know these guys announce their fallen comrades to StoVoKor.

Do you like my avatar? LOL

The late Elder Orson F. Whitney, of the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, related the following incident under the heading "A Catholic Utterance": Many years ago a learned man, a member of the Roman Catholic Church, came to Utah and spoke from the stand of the Salt Lake Tabernacle. I became well-acquainted with him, and we conversed freely and frankly. A great scholar, with perhaps a dozen languages at his tongue's end, he seemed to know all about theology, law, literature, science and philosophy. One day he said to me: "You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. The issue is between Catholicism and Mormonism. If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they were a part of us and went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. If we have the apostolic succession from St. Peter, as we claim, there is no need of Joseph Smith and Mormonism; but if we have not that succession, then such a man as Joseph Smith was necessary, and Mormonism's attitude is the only consistent one. It is either the perpetuation of the gospel from ancient times, or the restoration of the gospel in latter days."