justamere10

deseretgov: I think this thread is a good opportunity for you to promote your group and its mission. Responding to my questions would help you build credibility. If you don't open up, in my opinion you are going to remain in the murky shadows with no hope of ever building your group among people who are accustomed to transparency and working in the light. Tell us about your "Council of Fifty", or is that just something that is still in the planning stages? If what you are trying to do is still just something in your own mind and you've only begun exploring it by taking it public with your website, tell us. There's nothing wrong with starting something new as long as the founder/s doesn't/don't attempt to deceive others into thinking it's already a viable going concern. Telling us you were "recruited" by fifty mysterious people in my opinion is something that begs an explanation, unless it's the substance of fiction, in which case it should be identified as such. I look forward to learning more about your venture, my guess is that it's a topic of interest to many members of this board.

For all it may be worth, many years ago I did some basic research to check Duane Crowther's standing with the LDS Church. At that time he was a member in good standing. I personally find his books on prophecy to be useful.

Please tell us more about this "Council of Fifty" and how you were "recruited". Are there actually 50 people on that council right now? If so, how many are active LDS? Why did they pick you to build their public website? Are you too one of the fifty?

As many people know, Latter-day Saints have been counseled by their leaders to store food and emergency supplies in preparation for scarcities such as loss of income, and natural and manmade disasters. Family Home Storage Yesterday my wife and I visited an active LDS family in a prosperous neighborhood. When the subject of emergency preparations came up (as it often does these last few weeks) they revealed that they used to have storage but they didn't replenish their stock when they last moved to a new home. They have the means to buy supplies, they just haven't gotten around to it yet. I wonder how many LDS families have ignored the counsel of their leaders and are vulnerable? And how many non-LDS families could not last more than a few days without needing resources not found in their homes? Below is an illustration of how within a few hours people could find themselves isolated within the walls of their own home, unable to leave and unable to get supplies delivered by others, forced to live on what's in the cupboards and the pantry. ------ (Extracts from an article in Meridian Magazine.) You can and should prepare now for the possibility of a pandemic. Our government and governments throughout the world, the World Health Organization, and relief agencies worldwide all believe a pandemic is coming, if not this year, then soon. What we can expect when another Pandemic hits To help prevent the spread of the flu, communities may be quarantined - meaning you will not be able to count on out-of-town family and friends to help. People who may have been exposed may be required to stay in their homes. Schools, public transportation systems, all public events, government and private sector offices, even churches will all closed down. According to health officials, preparation means assuming that any or most of these conditions will apply in severely affected communities: Those who work in stores, who deliver to those stores, and who work at docks unloading supplies arriving from other countries, will also become ill or restricted to their homes. Many businesses will be forced to close because employees will stay home to protect themselves or to care for ill family members. This will mean the closure of businesses such as grocery stores and gas stations. Relief agencies, police and fire departments and hospitals will be short-staffed as employees and volunteers will become ill or remain home to care for family members. You will be on your own for most flu related issues. Outside of the quarantine area, businesses will close as supplies become limited. The stock market will close, bankruptcies will increase as people stop receiving government aid and pay checks. Prepare for disruptions in utility services. Pandemics are most likely to occur during the cold weather months. Utilities; electric, gas and water, all require staff to keep them operating at full capacity. Workers will stay home and ordinary repairs will become major complications as the staff will be limited. Power outages may last longer than normal. This may mean no heat, refrigeration, lights, and for those served by wells – no water. Without power pipes may freeze and break. Water may become contaminated as staff will not be equipped to monitor and control all systems and repairs. If we should experience a winter storm, ice storm, firestorm or earthquake which damages or destroys lines during this time, the problems would be greatly compounded. Communications during this time will become vital to your physical and emotional health. Government and relief agencies all recommend we prepare to care for our own needs. If your community is not quarantined but the flu virus is in the area, you will want to impose a self quarantine and stay in your home. Only with exposure to flu germs can you catch the flu. For this to be possible you will need to prepare now. We can learn from the experiences of the past: Case Study for Self Imposed Reverse Quarantine (SIRQ), Yerba Buena Island Yerba Buena Island is in the middle of San Francisco Bay – it is the island at the midway point of today's Bay Bridge , but in 1918, it stood alone, connected only by ferries to the mainland. On September 23, 1918 Commandant Percival Rossiter of the San Francisco Naval Training Station ordered an immediate SIRQ of the island. All 6,000 people on the island, including civilians, were required to remain on the island. All contact with others living in the San Francisco Bay Area were halted except to receive supplies. Supplies were delivered to the docks and recovered only after the vessel delivering them had left. On the rare occasion that military personnel arrived on the island they were placed in a quarantine camp for several days. By early November new influenza cases was decreasing in the San Francisco area. On Thursday, November 21, after two months of SIRQ the ban on travel off the island was lifted. This may have been premature as the first case of influenza on the island was reported on December 6, 1918. During December 1918 and January 1919, Yerba Buena Island recorded 3 deaths from influenza and 2 from pneumonia. Deaths during the Self Imposed Reverse Quarantine:0 Gunnison, Colorado The city of Gunnison , Colorado took steps early to protect its citizens. In early October 1918 the Colorado State Board of Health issued a warning. Schools were closed across the county, with orders that they would remain closed. Large meetings were banned. With the news that nearby towns were being hard hit by the pandemic, Gunnison enacted measures to protect its citizens. Anyone entering the town was required to remain in a quarantine location for two days. Barricades were erected on the main highways and cars were warned to drive through without stopping. After three months, on February 4, 1919, Dr. Hyatt called for an end to the protective sequestration and closure order for the town of Gunnison . Only one death had been recorded. When a third wave of the flu arrived, 100 cases were reported in Gunnison and 5 deaths occurred. Western Pennsylvania Institute for the Blind The Western Pennsylvania Institute for the Blind escaped the influenza pandemic even though nearby Pittsburgh was hit hard. When word of illness in nearby towns reached the school, officials announced that visitors would not be allowed to enter the school nor students allowed to leave. No cases of the flu were reported at the school. Students were allowed to return home for Thanksgiving and upon their return 12 cases of the flu were recorded at the school. The school was closed and students sent home until the flu subsided. There are many more examples of Self Imposed Reverse Quarantines that prevented or greatly reduced illness and death. For this reason it is expected that many communities will choose this same protection method when the next pandemic arrives. BYU Idaho, in Rexburg, is already preparing for their students to participate in a Self Imposed Reverse Quarantine should a pandemic occur. There is a limit to what the government, the health care community, and the Church can do in advance of a pandemic outbreak. With a worldwide Church it would be virtually impossible for the Church to stockpile all the goods that members would require. We need to prepare to care for our own families. The U.S. Federal Government, the World Health Organization, and others are monitoring avian flue outbreaks, as well as other pandemic threat sources closely. The United States has active national as well as international programs for manufacturing, pre-positioning, and stockpiling antiviral drugs, masks, and other supplies. Work on a specific vaccine cannot occur until a virus strain that infects people is identified and isolated. Most experts agree that development of an effective vaccine would take six months or more. In the United States, Secretary Leavitt of the Department of Health and Human Services (DHS) has stated that "any community that fails to prepare—with the expectation that the federal government can come to the rescue—will be tragically wrong" (April 10, 2006). "And plagues shall go forth, and they shall not be taken from the earth until I have completed my work, which shall be cut short in righteousness - Until all shall know me, who remain even from the least unto the greatest, and shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and shall see eye to eye... " - D&C 84:97-98 We need to prepare. Now is the time. Meridian Magazine :: Emergency Preparedness: "When the World Catches the Flu" ---- What good is cash in the bank or credit cards in your wallet if the stores are all closed? Do you not agree that it would be prudent to buy extra necessities such as food and water to store in your home today? Below is a link to information that could save your and your family's lives if you act upon it. Provident Living Home

Your login id and sig line denote that you are affiliated with something called I think "The Nation of Deseret". I'm curious about your website and entity but am very far from convinced that you are going to go anywhere with it or that has or ever will have any legitimacy. Your intentions may be honorable but is it your opinion that ordinary people such as yourself with no direct connection to LDS General Authorities (if that is your status) are going to be the ones to set up a Council of Fifty and a government that will endure throughout the Millennium? Why would you think that now is the time for such a government to be organized, and that you are the one who should be organizing it? What or who motivated you to build that website? Just curious, I don't mean to be offensive, I just discovered your website today.

Thanks for sharing. If you are not already familiar with the site I recommend that you browse at Mormon.org - Home for a wealth of accurate information about the Latter-day Saints. All the best with your search for truth.

That quote reached out to me as well. I had always had in mind that the pillar of fire and cloud of smoke etc. would be over refuges or places where the faithful Saints would gather in large numbers during times of great tribulation and chaos everywhere else. But perhaps that protection will also be extended to the homes of faithful Saints...

I converted from Roman Catholic to LDS when I was tracted out at 22 years old (that was a long time ago.) I continue to be grateful for the moral values I learned growing up in an active RC home but am completely content being a Mormon, the switch has worked perfectly for me.

Your quote was from the Mormon Sites monthly newsletter that Jerry Ainsworth contributes to each month. It's a free newsletter, you can subscribe to it at Mormon Sites - rising from the dust.... Dr. Ainsworth also participates on the LDS1.org discussion board at http://www.lds1.org

Thank-you for sharing your views, much appreciated.

Right, I was only using that as an example. There are actually some possible negatives for having one's calling and election made sure in this life, there were times in my life when I might have turned that down. Latter-day Saints understand that to sin is to harm our Savior, to cause perhaps another drop of his precious blood to be shed for us. If there is no longer an eternal penalty for sinning (as is the case when one's calling and election is made sure, as I understand it), one might be tempted even more strongly to engage in sin, and if one yields to the temptation, cause harm to our Lord.

I tend to agree with what you say but where is the balance between "resigning" meaning I guess giving up to God's superior will and knowledge regarding what is best for us, and continuing to strive/wrestle for something we really want and do not (yet) know God's will about for us as an individual?

There is much merit in doing that I am sure but it triggers the restless intellect part of me to question where the line might be between resigning oneself to God's will (as if we knew it) and being apathetic and lukewarm. My guess is that many faithful LDS have strong individual desires that are yet unfulfilled. They may often in their prayers say sincerely "thy will be done." But where is the balance between desiring and striving, and just resigning ourselves to "God's will", unless of course we clearly know His will regarding the matter already? For example, let's say someone profoundly wants to have their calling and election made sure. That seems to be a righteous desire, so that person prays and asks God for it to be fulfilled. But after the passing of much time with no fulfillment, and no clear expression of His will provided, should that person assume that it is not God's will for him/her and resign him/herself to that? Or should they continue to 'wrestle' with the Lord about it, all the while perhaps gaining faith that it will eventually be fulfilled? Comments?

Enduring to the end is a process of constantly adding oil to leaky vehicles. Enduring another boring talk in sacrament meeting without complaint adds a few drops, as does patiently sitting through yet another class on the word of wisdom or tithing. And of course quarts are freely found in temples and serving others. There's a lot of joy for the taking as we move along life's roads confident that service stations are plentiful, all we need do is take the time to stop and fill up.

If you are referring to the following article in Meridian: Meridian Magazine :: Articles : Tuning Our Heart to Christ — the Heart of Our Father's Love for Us Overcoming Addiction — From One Heart to Another Yes, it was a good write up but strangely with Meridian's circulation of 500,000 online LDS readers we only added about 50 new members to www.lds1.org Heather said they only got a few clicks out of the moregood link. Maybe there's something unsavory about using the word missionary WORK! :)

Excerpts from the Gospel Principes Manual. Divisions in the Spirit World The prophet Alma in the Book of Mormon taught about two divisions or states in the spirit world: "The spirits of those who are righteous are received into a state of happiness, which is called paradise, a state of rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their troubles and from all care, and sorrow. "And then shall it come to pass, that the spirits of the wicked, yea, who are evil--for behold, they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord; for behold, they chose evil works rather than good; therefore the spirit of the devil did enter into them, and take possession of their house--and these shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and this because of their own iniquity, being led captive by the will of the devil. "Now this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yea, in darkness, and a state of awful, fearful looking for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them; thus they remain in this state, as well as the righteous in paradise, until the time of their resurrection" (Alma 40:12-14). The spirits are classified according to the purity of their lives and their obedience to the will of the Lord while on earth. The righteous and the wicked are separated (see 1 Nephi 15:28-30), but the spirits may progress from one level to another as they learn gospel principles and live in accordance with them (see Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 762). Paradise According to the prophet Alma, the righteous spirits rest from earthly care and sorrow. Nevertheless, they are occupied in doing the work of the Lord. President Joseph F. Smith saw in a vision that immediately after Jesus Christ was crucified, he visited the righteous in the spirit world. He appointed messengers, gave them power and authority, and commissioned them to "carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men" (D&C 138:30). The Church is organized in the spirit world, with each prophet standing at the head of his own generation (see Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 4:209). Priesthood holders continue their responsibilities in the spirit world. President Wilford Woodruff taught: "The same Priesthood exists on the other side of the veil. . . . Every Apostle, every Seventy, every Elder, etc., who has died in the faith as soon as he passes to the other side of the veil, enters into the work of the ministry" (in Journal of Discourses, 22:333-34). Family relationships are also important. President Jedediah M. Grant, a counselor to Brigham Young, saw the spirit world and described to Heber C. Kimball the organization that exists there: "He said that the people he there saw were organized in family capacities. . . . He said, 'When I looked at families, there was a deficiency in some, . . . for I saw families that would not be permitted to come and dwell together, because they had not honored their calling here' " (Heber C. Kimball, in Journal of Discourses, 4:135-36). Spirit Prison The Apostle Peter referred to the spirit world as a prison, which it is for some (see 1 Peter 3:18-20). In the spirit prison are the spirits of those who have not yet received the gospel of Jesus Christ. These spirits have agency and may be enticed by both good and evil. If they accept the gospel and the ordinances performed for them in the temples, they may prepare themselves to leave the spirit prison and dwell in paradise. Also in the spirit prison are those who rejected the gospel after it was preached to them on earth or in the spirit prison. These spirits suffer in a condition known as hell. They have removed themselves from the mercy of Jesus Christ, who said, "Behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit" (D&C 19:16-18). After suffering in full for their sins, they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory, which is the telestial kingdom. The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever. Even the spirits who have committed the greatest sins will have suffered sufficiently by the end of the Millennium (see Acts 2:25-27). They will then be resurrected. http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-57,00.html

It is my understanding that during the Millennium everything will be restored as it was in the beginning. The land will be together, the oceans one body of water in the north. The flattening of mountains and raising of valleys will hugely increase the surface area of the earth. The veil will be open, we will walk and interact with spirits and resurrected beings just as we do now with mortals. In fact we may be in a state similar to that of translated bodies. (My conjecture.) My understanding is that the righteous who died before the Savior's resurrection (including those in the City of Enoch) were resurrected soon after the Lord's resurrection. The City of Enoch will descend in or near where Jackson County, MO is today but it is a huge city and will extend well beyond those boundaries. That will be the center of government, the New Jerusalem. There will still be many other churches during the Millennium, but all people will be righteous and every knee shall bow to the King, Jesus Christ who will reign from New Jerusalem, but live in Old Jerusalem. The wicked and Satan will have a thousand years of separation from the righteous. Sometime after the Millennium and the final battle, the wicked will be resurrected also and the kingdoms will be organized and populated. Satan and his followers and the sons of perdition go off to a place called "hell". And we all live happily (or sadly) ever after, some of us, having made right choices in the face of temptation to do otherwise, will have forever families and eternal increase...

The spirit world, with its divisions into "paradise" and "prison" were already in place prior to the death of Jesus. What the Savior did after his death and prior to resurrection was to bridge the gap between those two places to allow missionaries to travel to and fro. That's my understanding.

We are assured by a just God that nobody will be deprived of any blessing because of the unrighteousness of another. If a righteous woman is married to a man who will not go or is unqualified to go to the temple, for example, but she wants to be sealed and would be if her husband qualified and was willing, she will have an opportunity given her sometime during her eternal progression to be sealed to another man and thus qualify for exaltation. (Assuming she is righteous and did her best to keep all the other commandments and her covenants.) Intent, the thoughts and desires of the mind and heart, are important in God's eyes. Just do your very best day after day (hard as it sometimes is) to live temple worthy, and you will be in the right lineup on judgment day regardless of the people and circumstances that surrounded you during your mortal days. Because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, it's really that simple! "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding." Perhaps that is why in each kingdom of glory there are many mansions. It is possible during the eternities to progress from one mansion to a higher mansion, but not from one kingdom to a higher kingdom once the final kingdom assignments are made. My guess is that judgment will be in favor of advancement for those who are right on the edge of for example Telestial and Terrestrial, so the end result is that there really is no black and white division between the two. But that's just a mere speculation of course. To me, in this context receive is the same as accept. God is perfectly just. We will only be judged by the laws that we know. For example if the law known to a cannibal in remote New Guinea long long ago was that it was ok to eat humans from other tribes but not ok to eat humans from one's own tribe, and that law was abided by, I think that would result in a favorable judgment on that matter. Also, the Telestial Kingdom is still a kingdom of glory. That is not hell! Those are my personal understandings.

Jesus Christ was the first person to be resurrected on this earth. Word Search: first resurrected There is a huge amount of information available online by searching "first resurrection" in the study helps: Word Search: "first resurrection"

When we raise our hands in meetings, including general conferences, we are not "voting" in the sense that a majority wins, a minority loses. What we are doing is sustaining (expressing support for) our leaders and their inspired decisions. It is our belief that the Lord will not allow the Prophet to lead the Church astray. It is the Prophet, the President of the Church, who speaks to all of us for the Lord. It is we as individuals who accept (sustain) that word from the Lord, or reject it. Before anything is added to the Standard Works it would first be approved by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve, and then presented to the entire membership of the Church to be "sustained" by the raising of hands of the members. Individuals of course can refuse to sustain the new doctrine and are free to raise their hand to the contrary. It is extremely rare for any faithful Latter-day Saint to raise their hand to the contrary because it is the same Holy Spirit who speaks to the Prophet who speaks to us as individuals. We get the same message, sometimes accompanied by an almost overwhelming feeling of joy. That's how I see it.

I agree, except that I think any official statement or proclamation of the First Presidency alone should be assumed to have been first run by and agreed to by a quorum of the Twelve. I think too that it is most likely the canon that we will ultimately be judged by as the laws that we know and are expected to obey. (In the case of the bible of course, assuming correct interpretation.) Having said that, if the President of the LDS Church asked me to do something to help build the Kingdom, I would feel bound to sustain him and do my best at it, canonical or not. On his watch, to me the living prophet represents my Savior on this earth, I would follow him.

At www.lds1.org there is a growing library of canned messages for LDS cyber missionaries to copy, edit, translate etc. and post anywhere to help further the work Elder Ballard has asked us to help out with. Come join us, submit your own messages to the "Copy and Paste" forum, and discuss the work. We're growing daily and have about 200 members now. Ask a Mormon - LDS Cyber Missionaries Forum lds1.org • View forum - COPY AND PASTE. Free messages for LDS Cyber Missionaries!

Latter-day Saints should not be expected to respond to criticisms about things written anywhere except in their canon. They are bound only to the doctrines that constitute official LDS canon. Below are some pertinent excerpts from the LDS Newsroom. "Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted. Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine. Based on the scriptures, Joseph Smith declared: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.” http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/approaching-mormon-doctrine

Thank-you for that post. Unlike you I'm not a scholar, not even well-read. I'm a 'bottom-line' feeder, skimming through the inevitable endless arbitrary looking for some final soul-satisfying substance. In your post I find a profound truth, a line I'd place near or at the bottom of many a word mound (though I often learn from Snow and others.) Jesus is Messiah to so many not only because of what he did in his public life, but because he alone proved he was God by RISING FROM THE DEAD!