candyprpl

My sister has four children all grown now and none of them go to church. She says that she thinks they just never developed their own testimonies. That was a wonderful thing to tell me when I first joined the church (almost 4 years ago). I knew I had to develop a testimony and make it strong. It's okay to lean on other's testimonies for awhile. But we have to beware of doing that for too long. My calling is in primary and as much as I love hearing the children bear their testimonies it's obvious that they are borrowed testimonies. Each Sunday I try to tell my Valiant 11 the importance of having a strong testimony. In a talk by Elder Richard G. Scott, "Full Conversion Brings Happiness" -- "Your happiness now and forever is conditioned on your degree of conversion and the transformation that it brings to your life." Start now as if you were new to the Church. At first it was hard for me to read the Book of Mormon and get anything out of it for myself -- but I kept reading. In the beginning it was hard for me to have a desire to go to Church -- but I did. In the beginning it was hard for me to listen to talks that didn't interest me -- I listened anyway. In the beginning I had a hard time giving a sincere prayer -- but I kept trying and actually asked for help to give a sincere prayer. In the beginning I seriously sinned about 3 months before going to the Temple for my endowments. I was scared and embarassed about going to the Bishop -- but I did. I bear you my testimony that 'doing all these hard things' has strengthened my testimony and this true converstion has gotten me through very tough times. Like Elder Scott said, "...happiness now and forever is conditioned on your degree of conversion..." I love reading the scriptures now -- they have a lot to tell me and give me peace. I love going to Church and renewing my Baptismal covenants. I love my callings. I love conversing with my Heavenly Father. I love having the Holy Ghost to guide me in my daily activities. Life is full of blessings if we will do what it takes to see them and accept them as blessings. Like bytor said, ...this process should begin at Baptism, but you can start now. Prayerfully, Candace:bighug:

If this is true, I find it quite disturbing. The Bishop is the only one who should be having conversations with you on this subject. Have you had a meeting with the Bishop? (I can't recall if in your previous posts you mentioned it). I think it's important to meet with him and let him know the situation and so peace can come to your mind about your plan to pay at the end of the quarter (?). It's obvious that your talking about it here, that it is a great concern to you. All of us here can say all the right things to try to make you feel better, but it is only our loving Father in Heaven who can really bring you the peace you're seaking. And we know that that comes from sincere prayer to know. And, sometimes we need to talk to His servant down here.

I will share my personal story (for what it's worth) When I joined the church I was single and on disability. The income from this source is almost a joke. I struggled so much. I was able to receive a small amount of food stamps -- about $25 a month My rent (low income housing) took almost 3/4 of my income. I couldn't afford a phone (of any kind), cable TV -- those would have been luxeries. By the end of the month I was eating rice and beans and water -- no choke. When the Bishop talked to me about paying my tithes I broke down crying and said I would. My sister paid for me to come visit her in CA and I was gone for three weeks when I got home -- I don't know how I made such a blunder -- but I had overdrawn my bank account and I didn't know how I was going to pay my next months rent, let alone any of my utilities. I had a pretty good relationship with the RS Pres. and I called her. She set up a meeting with the Bishop that night. I cried and cried (thinking I was all alone in this situation) and he acted like nothing was the matter. He told the RS Pres. to go grociery shopping for me and then he said that he would pay my rent and utilities and did I have any other unpaid bills. I was shocked, really! He explained that this came from fast offerings. Now this next part explains more how I gained a testimony of paying my tithes. You know that the government never makes a mistake well a week after this incidence I received a letter from my case worker saying that they had made a mistake on how much food stamps I should be getting. The increase was $85 more! And I received back pay (in food stamps) for the months they had shorted me That meant I didn't need to spend any of my check on food, just my bills. Then 4 months later I met a man in church and we were sealed in the Temple. My patriarchal blessing has assured me that I will never be without temporally as long as I stay faithful. That is my testimony of tithe paying and blessings received from doing so.

I have never run across the Mormons you are talking about. Before I joined the LDS church I had my sisters and there families who were all very active 'Mormons' and I never felt that they didn't listen to me in what I believed at the time. They would visit our parents church and were very respectful. They worked with the minister who led the services for each of my parents funerals. Heck, they even visited a seminar of a group that I was involved in when I thought I had found what I was looking for -- A New Age type seminar. And we had great discussions without yelling who was right. And never did a missionary upset me when they knocked on my door and we would share different views. One of my brother-in-laws was converted to the church because of the members attitudes of respect. He was raised Catholic and he tells me that during the discussions with the missionaries and other members (because when he married my sister, she continued to be active) he says that he never felt threatened or uneasy around the LDS church. After 7 years of this kindness he joined the church and has a very strong testimony. I'm always willing and like hearing other's beliefs.

I once heard a talk on BYU about when prayers seem unanswered. I was so impressed with this talk that I wanted to see if I could get a transcript and in my search I saw that this speaker had written a book on this subject. It was his talk just more added. "When Your Prayers Seem Unanswered" by S. Michael Wilcox. On the leaf of the book: We have all had times when we feel that the heavens have closed and our supplications have gone unheard. In this inspirational book, author S. Michael Wilcox explains that the Lord often waits until the moment when we have nearly exhausted our resources and our strength to send an answer to our prayers. Citing the example from the NT where Jesus was aware of this disciples' futile struggle to row across the Sea of Galilee in a fierce storm. Brother Wilcox observes that the Savior did not immediately come to their rescue. Likewise, God is not quick to jump in and save us, allowing us to learn from our mistakes and struggles. Filled with examples from the scriptures, literature, and the author's own experiences, this hopeful book testifies also of a coming day when Jesus will finally put an end to all tears and suffering. It's only 62 pages long but it is filled with such wisdom and it's so easy to relate it to one's own life. I read one of his personal stories to my Activity Day girls when talking about prayer and scripture study and they loved it and understood the message.

Totally agree with you. It sounds to me like you are doing a great job. I've already said in a previous post -- it is a fine line to walk -- to judge the action and not the person. But it's important for the kids to know that not living gospel standards will not bring happiness only eternal distruction. I think the saddest thing to deal with is her attitude towards you and how she's trying to make the kids feel about you. What's your relationship with her parents like? Does she have a good relationship with her mother? If yes, maybe you could talk to them about these concerns and they good intervene a little. Just a thought.

Marsha8, I agree with most of what you are saying. There is no excuse for not living the gospel. But you have to walk a fine line with how you approach your children on the subject. If it comes across that he is bad-mouthing there mother than nothing will be gained by that. Too many times I have seen children come to resent the parent who is always speaking bad of the other parent. I understand what you're saying and I agree that you need to teach children that the only true happiness is living the gospel -- you just have to be careful how you communicate that when they have a parent who is not living the gospel. Does that make sense? I hope so. Sometimes writing rather than having a back and forth conversation doesn't always communicate what you want the other to understand.

I swam in that pool many, many years and it almost drowned me. If your interested, go to my profile.

Have you received that set of books yet? I'll let you do the reading and then would you pass the info on?

I like to think that we are more like computers -- we've been programmed from the beginning to know good from evil but then when we set it up on the desk and start loading different software -- LOOK OUT! Not to say anything about the stupid viruses that are likely to come our way!

THAT IS SOOOOOO TRUE!! PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE DON'T EVER FORGET THAT!! I have a grown son who still grieves over not having his father be more involved in is youth. To his credit, HE has made sure to have that relationship now without making his father feel guilty about the past. To my credit, I never said bad things about his father and I never encouraged him (my son) to harbour bad feelings against his father. The most important sentence and I will add an exclamation point ..."but 10 years from now they will remember that I never stopped calling."

:bouncingclap:FABULOUS!!!!! Wonderful news! A little bit of advice from an fairly new member, myself -- The Lord is not primarily interested in having his children only convinced of his work. He would like them to be converted to the gospel. Marion G. Romney said, "While conversion may be accomplished in stages, one is not really converted in the full sense of the term unless and until he is at heart a new person." And President Thomas S. Monson teaches, ..."the prime element of any conversion is personal prayer. When a person gets down on his or her knees and prays to Heavenly Father about the message that he or she has heard, that's when conversion really starts to take place...Until a person comes to the point where he or she desires to really communicate with our eternal Heavenly Father, conversion will always be elusive..." Rulon T. Burton, We Believe Receiving a testimony requires a trial of our faith. Before we can receive a testimony, we must have a trial of our faith in patience. We must have a trial of our faith in knowledge - that means studying the scriptures. We must have a trial of our faith in temperance -- that means keeping the Word of Wisdom, primarily. We must have a trial of our faith in virtue, in charity, in brotherly kindess. And only after we have had a trial of our faith and we have proved ourselves, then only can we receive the witness -- that means testimony. Until you have a testimony for yourself lean on the testimonies of your bishop, your stake president and other faithful members, until you develop your own. But beware of doing that for too long. A testimony can grow or diminish. The most satisfying thing in all the world, the greatest anchor to your soul, in time of trouble, in time of temptation, in times of sickness, in times of indecision, in times of your struggles and work, is to know with a certainty that defies all doubt, that God lives. I personly can't stress more how important a strong testimony is. Congratulations again!!

Quote by Otterpop "In my own case, I left the Church for spiritual reasons, gradually and gently by God. I was led to a richer belief and a richer life outside Mormonism. You could say I was "deconverted" after having been born into Mormonism. And Moroni 10 certainly had a lot to do with it." I'm curious about this statement and was wondering if you could explain what happened. Just like us Mormons don't like people telling us what we believe I don't want to make assumptions about this statement. Some of the posters have already tried to make suggestions at why you might have left the church. Before I joined the church I was never one to be led by unjustifiable judgements and I feel even stronger about that now that I am a member. So bottom line -- I'm just curious -- I am not interested in telling you your decision is wrong because it goes against what I believe. Care to explain for yourself?

I couldn't agree with you more!! Just look at all the different churches out there today!!

Before I joined the LDS church I was a member in a very little Baptist church. The minister in that church was not supported by church funds because the congregation was just too small. He worked full time as a carpenter because he had a family and he worked full time as a minister. I know the Lord supported him and gave him the strength to do all this work. My father was a Deacon in that church who also did what he could to support the minister in his church work. I say he was more like a first counselor to a Bishop. When I married I joined another Baptist church because that was my husband's church. It was a bigger church and the minister did receive a small stipend for service. My husband was planning on being a minister and he would preach in Jr. church on Sundays. (kind of like our Primary). Not all denominations have paid clergy. The difference I've experienced in the LDS vs. other denominations is we know that service is a great blessing. We do it because the Lord has asked us to do what it takes to build the kingdom of God. I just didn't get that same feeling in the other churches. I'm not saying this right and some are going to take offense I'm afraid. When I joined the LDS church I knew that I would at some point receive "a calling." At first I was quite afraid of what I might to be called to do. I didn't see myself as a very capable person. After a while through this conversion process I had a realization, a personal revelation that the Lord was preparing me. My prayers became thankful for this preparation and fear that I would be called to do something I didn't think I could do went away. I was soon called to teach in Primary (Sunday School) and 11 yr. olds were my students. I also have a calling as Assistant Activity Day Leader. I've had these callings for almost 2 years and I feeled blessed to be doing my part to build God's kingdom. I put in as many hours as I need to through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the blessings are too many to count! My testimony of this gospel has grown so much in such a short time. That's worth more than money. Our testimony is the only thing we will take with us when we leave this mortal life.

A week after I was baptized (LDS) I went to California to visit my daughter. She is a recovering addict and we were invited to a dinner celebrating another person's one year sobriety. As dinner progressed, my ears caught a conversation across the table. The young lady was talking about having been married in the Temple and her divorce and falling away from the church. She said many horrible things about the church and Temple marriage. Being a new member and have very little knowledge I didn't want to get into the conversation. My feeling at the time was that she was not being truthful -- even my daugther who is not a member knew she was speaking with anger and not truth. Later and even now I think about this person often. She left her marriage (and maybe she had good reasons for doing this) and she left the church and where was she now? A recovering alcoholic filled with bitterness! I felt sorry for her. I know that when a person has been excomunicated that it is pretty humiliating and unless they take a path of repentance, bitterness takes over. In the Book of Mormon there is a scripture that tells it all; Alma 24:30 "And thus we can plainly discern, that after a people have been once enlightened by the Spirit of God, and have had great knowledge of things pertaining to righteousness, and then have fallen away into sin and transgression, they become more hardened, and thus their state becomes worse than though they had never known these things."

Quote from FunkyTown - "Wait... Your friend is saying -God- is placing the obstacles of things like "Joseph and the Seer Stones" in our way?" Didn't the Apostles in the New Testament times have simalar obstacles to contend with when setting up the original Church of Jesus Christ? Satan is out there always to stop the church from going forward. Heavenly Father allows people according to their agency to do what they please.

:bighug:I've been a member going on 4 years. It's the most exciting thing I have ever chosen to do. Congratulations!! Your enthusiasm is fantastic! Always remember how you're feeling right now, it will help get you through the times that get you down. Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and all the heavenly angels are celebrating right along with you!

Welcome -- I really look forward to hearing more from you and good luck on this project of your's. I will send you my story. I have been so blessed since turning my life over to our Savior! And I give Heavenly Father all the glory for the plan of salvation that has given me so much to live for! -Candace

That is sooooo sad! She will be blessed for keeping her standards intact. I know it may not seem very comforting to know that.

It's very sad how the Adversary can get in there and reak havoc on families!!!! I can't imagine being so disrespectful!! I sheepishly have to say that years ago before I was a member I lived with my boyfriend and when (one year) we went back home to visit my parents and sisters and their families it never crossed my mind to demand a single room for my boyfriend and myself. Even my father always the one who didn't want to make an issue out of things came up to me and said that we could have my old room. I told him "no" because I knew how the family felt about us living together. And when this boyfriend and I got married we served both champagne and sparkling cider for my side of the family. We didn't make an issue out of anyone's beliefs. And if a member of my family still didn't want to come because of the alcohol I would have understood or we would have simply not had it. It was a great day and everyone was very happy. My mom and dad were not LDS but they still had standards. My mother smoked and my husband and I didn't allow smoking in our house. If we had guests that were smokers we would go outside and visit with them while they smoked. The first time my parents came to visit (and I had already told my mother of our rule), she was very upset that we asked her to go outside to smoke. It was done in a nice manner -- I think she was just surprised that we didn't make an acception for her. Needless to say all visiting after that was done at my parents. Ok. Better that kind of compromise than brecking up a family. Their is nothing wrong with sticking to one's standards, especially if they're the Lord's standards. It's unfortunate if some want to make it an uncomfortable situation.

Before I joined the Church I was always amazed at how many people would bring up 'mormonism' in a discussion and it would always be focused on polygamy -- 'Brigham Young and all his wives,' or 'Joseph Smith and all his wives.' Even then I would throw my two cents in and say that that was not what the church was about. Now that I'm a member I still say that and ask if they would like to know what the Church is about. It either shuts them up or they say yes. Then I start with Joseph Smith, who he was and about the restoration. What makes people always want to focus on that part of the Church's history?

I hope I'm not changing the thread titled, I'm having some issues with Joseph Smith. I don't intend for my post to drift but the last posts have lead me to post a response on prayer/revelation. There's a wonderful book out called "Hearing The Voice of The Lord" by Gerald N. Lund In this book he states: What Principles Govern The Giving and Receiving of Revelation? 1. God determines all aspects of revelation. 2. We must activively seek revelation. 3. Most revelation come incrementally. A qoute that was put in this book: We should recognize that the Lord will speak to us through the Spirit in his own time and in his own way. Many people do not understand this principle. They believe that when they are ready and when it suits their convenience, they can call upon the Lord and he will immediately respond, even in the precise way they have prescribed. Revelation does not come that way. Dallin H. Oaks, Ensign, March 1997, 10. We are here to learn to walk by faith, and sometimes the only way we learn faith is to have a blessing withheld. Though we may be tempted to view this as a punishment or decide that God doesn't care, it is simply another manifestation of the principle that God, in all His wisdom and knowledge (empasis added) decides when a revelation or answer to prayers should be given. We are like little children -- impatient and want to know why right now!

Welcome, welcome! I wish I knew what to say. Divorce in the Church is a sad thing and we do not know how to deal with it. I'm a new member (sort of) and I have been divorced twice before joining. I have a couple of nieces (born in the Church) married in the Temple and are now divorced and they struggle with staying active. My sister (a long time member) had a dear friend who still wanted Visiting and Home teachers but wouldn't go to any of the meetings because of how she felt everyone viewed her. A lot of the same things you said in your first post. My advice (for what it's worth) stay strong! Remember to stay active for Heavenly Father and not for the members, if you know what I mean. Now that I shared the bad stories here's a good one. Another niece of mine who was also married in the Temple and divorced is now married to a worthy priesthood holder (who also had been divorced) met on LDS Singles site and fell in love and were married and he also accepted her 4 children and now have 1 together are quite happy and have been married and sealed for about 9 or 10 years. Was it an easy path for her --- not at all, she went through many trials but she stayed strong and would be the first to say that the great Comforter helped her every step of the way. I don't know how long all of this happened to you but if it's still fairly recent give your ward and you time to adjust. Changes are hard for everyone. They probably don't know what to say -- help them know what to say to you. Let them know how you're feeling about the situation just like you did here. I know you feel like a leper but the best way to get that feeling under control is to pray and know that Heavenly Father has made you clean once more and now it's time to move on and let others know that you are now doing the next part of this mortal life --- which is, enduring to the end. Sincerely, Candace

I think I can speak a little on suicide because in 2004 I tried to end my life. Was I in my right mind when I made that choice? Not at all! My thoughts and feelings didn't even feel like me -- if you know what I mean. I should have died. I was in a coma for 5 days and it was a miracle (and I don't use that word loosely) that I survived. Heavenly Father's love came through loud and clear. He loves his children and wants us to return to him. It has been useful for me to learn and understand the attributes of our Father in Heaven. In my studying of the scriptures and the teachings on faith by Joseph Smith I've learned that the character of God include the following: he was God before the world was created, and the same God that he was after it was created. He is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, abundant in goodness, and that he was so from everlasting, and will be to everlasting. He changes not, neither is there variableness with him; but that he is the same from everlasting to everlasting, being the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that his course is one eternal round, without variation. He is a God of truth and cannot lie. He is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that fears God and works righteousness is accepted of him. He is love. His attributes are: He knows all. He is all powerful. He just, his judgments are fair. He is merciful. I'm sorry you have had such tragic losses in your life --- maybe it's an opportunity to get to know your loving Father in Heaven. I invite you to do so. He loves you! He also loves the friends that you have lost. Candace