Vort

Are the Evangelicals who find themselves in bed tomorrow morning going to say, "Oh, I guess the Rapture didn't happen after all"? I mean, if they're not prideful, shouldn't they assume...something else?

My sixteen-year-old wanted to get his mother a T-shirt that read, "I like my men cold, dead, and sparkly."

Seriously? A man looking at pornography is equivalent to a man taking other wives?Amazing. And people say men reduce marriage to sex.

Joking aside, I think you are spot on. We know very little about the exact nature of the premortal "competition", with vague and somewhat nonsensical ideas about "competing plans" and such. But what we know for sure is that the being once called Lucifer wanted God's power and honor: "{S}urely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor...Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down" [Moses 4:1, 3] This is unadulterated pride. Satan was in competition with the Father, and the reason was pride.

If they're really going to do it right, they'll have all the ordinance workers wearing blue, too.

If the Holy Ghost is "in competition", it is with Satan. Satan is not a child of God with infinite worth and divine potential who might be injured by the competition.

My wife loves Twilight. Ergo, so do I, even though she has forbidden me from reading it. I actually agree with a lot of billsmith's points, though perhaps not completely with his expression of them. Everyone seems to agree that porn usage (addiction or not) is not about the spouse at all. Gossiping to your friends about private intimate matters of sex and/or relationship is EXACTLY about the spouse. I can see how a man might feel he has cause to feel much more betrayed by such actions than by someone merely looking at porn. In our society, a man's weaknesses and transgressions are generally viewed much more harshly than a woman's. A sizeable minority are against punishing adult women who rape teenage boys, even arguing that the term "rape" is nonsensical in such a consensual relationship; yet only a very tiny minority argues the same about an adult man having sexual congress with a teenage girl, never mind that such a situation is far more historically common and accepted. Even on this list, if a man joins the list and discloses his adultery, he is generally met with stern words and relatively little emotional support. But when a woman joins the list and discloses her adultery, she is given much more emotional support and encouraged to repent, sometimes in explicit language but almost always with the subtext "We care about you and want you to do the right thing". I have even seen posters try to justify a woman's infidelity by supposing that the husband must have been abusive or neglectful or in some other way driven her to another man's arms. If we put away this sexist nonsense, I believe we would see that pornography is not the only vicious and destructive addiction, and that women can (and do) contribute to destroying a marriage just as much as their husbands.

I think we'll be surprised no matter when it occurs. But if my Evangelical neighbors suddenly disappear tomorrow, I hope they leave their keys in the ignition.

I was specifically trying not to criticize your word choice. In general usage, I think the two words are largely synonymous. I was drawing a fine (and perhaps artificial) distinction to try to explain my point. Oooh. A subtle thread self-reference. Well played, sir. Perhaps this is the essence of my feeling on the matter: I am not sure that competition does motivate us to be better, at least not in any meaningful eternal sense. But I think in many instances, it does motivate us to be worse, to engage in wicked and destructive behavior toward our brothers, or even ourselves, in the name of "winning".I still intend to watch every BYU football game this coming season. I simply don't pretend that my craving to watch BYU win is motivated by a deep spiritual desire to spread the gospel.

It's much more pervasive than that. The dating world is relentlessly competitive. This world caters to our Darwinian instincts (and as a believer in organic evolution, I mean that literally). Finding a spouse can be the most competitive thing we ever do. For me, fortunately, it was not. My wife was being pursued (in a dating sense) by several other guys, but I was the only one she liked. But what if I had "won" my wife away from some other guy who was pursuing her and who she liked, but I convinced her I was the better catch? Where is the Godliness, the Christlike love and compassion, in such a scenario?I cannot make sense of how competition should fit into our existence. I did not say competition was "evil", as in Satanic or devilish. I said it was "wicked", as in a part of our fallen state. I abhor competition, even as I engage in it and occasionally revel in my victories. Bottom line: The observation that competition is pervasive and is a part of the reality of our existence is granted, but does nothing to diminish my belief that it is wicked.

I still think they're replacing all the carpets with blue shag. Probably adding orange trim.

What, they're making all the carpets blue?

I believe competition is wicked, the very definition of the telestial, Darwinian world in which we find ourselves. Competition is about being "the best". It's not about being particularly good, just better than everyone around us. It is the very definition of pride. It is the very antithesis of Christlike behavior. Jesus never said, "Be ye therefore better than your neighbor." Pride convinces us that unless we are as good as (or preferably better than) our acquaintances, we are inadequate. Worse, pride tells us that tearing another person (business, etc.) down it acceptable, because it increases our status in the pecking order. I understand that our world functions on competition. I understand that the man (or woman) who utterly refuses to compete will be eaten alive, figuratively or perhaps literally, by the world. I understand that our economic system is defined by competition, and that maintenance of "healthy competition" is vital to our way of life. I also understand the attraction and even benefits of sports, which are completely defined by head-to-head competition. My sons wrestle, and I doubt there is a more deeply and fundamentally competitive sport. It is a "team sport" only in theory. In practice, it's you and the other guy, each striving to win mastery over his opponent. And I support and encourage my sons' efforts, despite the fact that it's pure competition. When my middle son won his district tournament, he did it by climbing over other boys, boys who shed tears on losing and who bravely tried to smile despite their deep disappointment -- as I have seen my own boys do on many occasions. I really do understand all that. I still say that competition is wicked. It leads to jealousy, discontent, and lack of unity. You cannot love and support your brother or sister as you ought if you're constantly striving to be better than they are. Note that "competing with yourself" is an oxymoron. I'm talking about actual competition, not verbal games. I am convinced that competition is wicked, and is a feature of our fallen world and NOT the celestial realms where we hope to be -- and which we are supposed to emulate to prepare ourselves for such glory. Responses and reasoned disagreements most welcome.

This is cold comfort, akin to telling a rape victim, "Sorry that happened to you, hon, but in the eternities everything will be better." It's a true statement, but it doesn't address the attempt to achieve justice in mortality.

What problem with "proper wording"? That you use it?"Gender" is a linguistic term having to do with word usage. "Sex" refers to maleness and femaleness. Your wording was perfect, never mind how the ignorant bluenoses react.

I definitely concur -- this is too much the focus in the Church and in LDS homes and families. Sex = bad, bad, bad, no, no, no.I rarely got that impression, either in Church or at home. The impression I got was, "Sex is great, but should only be expressed in marriage." And I daresay I'm older than either of you.

Go to a less seedy part of town.

At our entry into the Lord's kingdom through baptism, we are given the gift of the Holy Ghost. This will tell us all things we need to know. But we need to learn to use this gift. Self-justification always overpowers the "still small voice". But as adults who have been through the temple, we ought (and need) to be able to hear the voice of the Holy Ghost in such matters. We ought not insist that our leaders, whom we view as The Chosen Ones but who in reality are just fellow travelers, do our listening for us. If you made a covenant to wear your underwear, then wear it. If it's an activity where such use is inappropriate, don't wear it for that activity. But don't go looking for excuses to rationalize not wearing it. We're grown-ups. We should be able to figure out when it's appropriate to wear our underwear.

Committing adultery in one's heart is much less serious than committing adultery with one's genitals. Shame on you. Who are you to be telling someone you don't even know to divorce her husband?Matthew 19:6 "Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." You serve the Lord by disobeying him and encouraging the dissolution of a marriage?You should be ashamed of yourself.

Fwiw, I believe my wife has never talked to anyone, family or friends, about our intimate business behind my back. I think she would consider that disloyal, as would I.

It's not the first time I've found that I posted some idea that someone had already said, maybe in the post immediately preceding mine. It's not even the only time that has happened today... I suppose I should be more careful in reading what others have written before I post. Or not.

Friday.

Diane, I'm so sorry to hear this. You have my sincere condolences.You may feel however you feel. You are not wrong to feel angry, or sad, or whatever. (I can only imagine how angry and sad I would feel in your position.) You are going through a terrible ordeal right now. You will come out the other end, eventually, in the weeks or months ahead. For now, feel however you feel. Come to terms with things. If you think you should feel happier or more relieved or whatever, then you might explore that. But don't worry about whether other people think you should or should not feel some certain way. Btw, I strongly suspect that those who are telling you that you "should" feel happy and "shouldn't" feel angry are simply making a clumsy attempt to comfort you. I doubt they're actually trying to criticize how you feel. Tragic circumstances like this sometimes leave even decent, well-meaning people at a loss. So if you can avoid taking offense at their ham-fisted attempts at making you feel better, I think you'll be better off in the long run.

It is not meet that we be commanded in all things.Can we seriously not figure out how to wear our underwear properly? It's simple enough, at least in principle: Take out the self-justification and efforts to avoid wearing the garment because it's "uncomfortable" or "unfashionable" or other such nonsense, and then wear the garment as is appropriate. We really don't need Daddy there telling us every possible situation in which we should or should not wear our underwear.

It's the kind of forum where we care a great deal about the content of your posts and nothing whatsoever about the number of posts you have.