Connie

I remember seeing a thread discussing this, but i can't find it. Anyway, thought i'd share this i found on it. Is President Lorenzo Snow’s oft-repeated statement—“As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be”—accepted as official doctrine by the Church? Gerald N. Lund, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Feb. 1982, 39–40 Gerald N. Lund, Teacher Support Consultant for the Church Education System. To my knowledge there has been no “official” pronouncement by the First Presidency declaring that President Snow’s couplet is to be accepted as doctrine. But that is not a valid criteria for determining whether or not it is doctrine. Generally, the First Presidency issues official doctrinal declarations when there is a general misunderstanding of the doctrine on the part of many people. Therefore, the Church teaches many principles which are accepted as doctrines but which the First Presidency has seen no need to declare in an official pronouncement. This particular doctrine has been taught not only by Lorenzo Snow, fifth President of the Church, but also by others of the Brethren before and since that time. In her biography of her brother, Eliza R. Snow explains the circumstances which led Lorenzo Snow to pen the famous couplet: “Being present at a ‘Blessing Meeting,’ in the Temple, previous to his baptism into the Church; after listening to several patriarchal blessings pronounced upon the heads of different individuals with whose history he was acquainted, and of whom he knew the Patriarch was entirely ignorant; he was struck with astonishment to hear the peculiarities of those persons positively and plainly referred to in their blessings. And, as he afterwards expressed, he was convinced that an influence, superior to human prescience, dictated the words of the one who officiated. “The Patriarch was the father of Joseph, the Prophet. That was the first time Lorenzo had met him. After the services, they were introduced, and Father Smith said to my brother that he would soon be convinced of the truth of the latter-day work, and be baptized; and he said: ‘You will become as great as you can possibly wish—EVEN AS GREAT AS GOD, and you cannot wish to be greater.’ ” (Eliza R. Snow, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow, Salt Lake City: Deseret News Co., 1884, pp. 9–10.) Lorenzo Snow was baptized a short time later and began his service in the Church. In the spring of 1840 he was called to serve a mission in the British Isles. Before his departure he was in the home of a Church member who was preaching a sermon on the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. (See Matt. 20:1–16.) According to Elder Snow, “While attentively listening to his explanation, the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me, and explains Father Smith’s dark saying to me at a blessing meeting in the Kirtland Temple, prior to my baptism. … “As man now is, God once was:” “As God now is, man may be.” “I felt this to be a sacred communication, which I related to no one except my sister Eliza, until I reached England, when in a confidential private conversation with President Brigham Young, in Manchester, I related to him this extraordinary manifestation.” (Eliza R. Snow, pp. 46–47; italics added. Brigham Young was President of the Quorum of the Twelve at the time.) President Snow’s son LeRoi later told that the Prophet Joseph Smith confirmed the validity of the revelation Elder Snow had received: “Soon after his return from England, in January, 1843, Lorenzo Snow related to the Prophet Joseph Smith his experience in Elder Sherwood’s home. This was in a confidential interview in Nauvoo. The Prophet’s reply was: ‘Brother Snow, that is a true gospel doctrine, and it is a revelation from God to you.’ ” (LeRoi C. Snow, Improvement Era, June 1919, p. 656.) The Prophet Joseph Smith himself publicly taught the doctrine the following year, 1844, during a funeral sermon of Elder King Follett: “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1938, pp. 345–46.) Once the Prophet Joseph had taught the doctrine publicly, Elder Snow also felt free to publicly teach it, and it was a common theme of his teachings throughout his life. About ten years before his death, while serving as the President of the Quorum of the Twelve, President Snow incorporated his original couplet into a longer poem. He addressed the poem to the Apostle Paul, who had written the following to the Philippian Saints: “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: “Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.” (Philip. 2:5–6.) Part of the poem reads: The boy, like to his father grown, Has but attained unto his own; To grow to sire from state of son, Is not ’gainst Nature’s course to run. A son of God, like God to be, Would not be robbing Deity. (As cited in LeRoi C. Snow, p. 661.) Numerous sources could be cited, but one should suffice to show that this doctrine is accepted and taught by the Brethren. In an address in 1971, President Joseph Fielding Smith, then serving as President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, said: “I think I can pay no greater tribute to [President Lorenzo Snow and Elder Erastus Snow] than to preach again that glorious doctrine which they taught and which was one of the favorite themes, particularly of President Lorenzo Snow. … “We have been promised by the Lord that if we know how to worship, and know what we worship, we may come unto the Father in his name, and in due time receive of his fulness. We have the promise that if we keep his commandments, we shall receive of his fulness and be glorified in him as he is in the Father. “This is a doctrine which delighted President Snow, as it does all of us. Early in his ministry he received by direct, personal revelation the knowledge that (in the Prophet Joseph Smith’s language), ‘God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens,’ and that men ‘have got to learn how to be Gods … the same as all Gods have done before.’ “After this doctrine had been taught by the Prophet, President Snow felt free to teach it also, and he summarized it in one of the best known couplets in the Church. … “This same doctrine has of course been known to the prophets of all the ages, and President Snow wrote an excellent poetic summary of it.” (Address on Snow Day, given at Snow College, 14 May 1971, pp. 1, 3–4; italics added.) It is clear that the teaching of President Lorenzo Snow is both acceptable and accepted doctrine in the Church today.

I'm so bummed now! Just as an aside, i asked my hubby how he would corrupt my wish for a box of chocolates (we play this game sometimes) and instead of saying he wouldn't corrupt that wish but simply grant it, he said he would make them all chocolate-covered cockroaches! I'm so offended! In light of chocolate, i will grant your wish, but now chocolate is against the Word of Wisdom. (total bummer) I wish for a new pair of shoes.

Exactly what i would have said, Canuck Mormon! I'll go ahead and give another wish. I wish for a box of chocolates. (great corruption of my last wish, Gwen, i couldn't stop laughing!)

Granted! But now you are the sole human being on planet earth, oh so peaceful! I wish for an exponentially growing bank account.

Granted, but it will be ice cold. I wish for a flying car.

Granted, but now you're allergic to ponies. I wish for well-behaved children. (thanks for the laughs guys, i've needed it after all these heavy threads. Let's keep it going.)

"He'll regret it to his dying day, if ever he lives that long." The Quiet Man

I heard about this game, Corrupt a wish. It's kind of funny. I thought there might be some here who would like to try it. The idea is to corrupt a wish, obviously. For example: I make a wish that i want a new car, then the next person corrupts that wish by saying, "granted, but now gas costs $10 a gallon." If you feel you cannot corrupt the wish you can simply say "not granted" but i would encourage you to try to corrupt it anyway. After you corrupt the wish or say "not granted", you may then go on to make your own wish that someone else can try to corrupt. No corrupting your own wish. Just keep it light and fun and clean and try not too get too serious. If everything is clear, i'll go ahead and start with the first wish. I wish for a pot of gold.

"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something." The Princess Bride

Yes, i believe many of us are missing the simplicity of the gospel. And the simplicity is this... FOLLOW THE PROPHET!

Oh ram, you're such a prude! Don't you know it's okay for teenaged girls to wear spagetti strap dresses to prom. It's just part of the culture, let kids be kids, come on! We aren't supposed to be striving for a Zion or celestial society and culture. I mean we live in a telestial world after all. The scriptures are very clear. We are to be in the world AND of the world. (oops, did i wander into the realm of sarcasm again! slap my hand!)

I found that picture, too, and i thought Wow! those are the best cheerleader outfits i've ever seen. I, however, think the more important question is what do they wear when they are not cheerleading. They would have to wear a certain kind of outfit for all the stunts they do. http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m182/byucheer/Retreat/100_0063.jpg See those knee-length shorts. Awesome!

Nope, sorry, i don't watch football.

I agree with you, Wingnut, these things add very little to the topic. In my opinion, saying things like "Isaiah preached in the nude" or "the apostles fished in the nude" etc., are merely thrown out for shock effect.

Thanks for the info, MOE! It was very interesting (what exactly is a 'Nacler?). I didn't know all that. But that doesn't surprise me as there is lots and Tons and WAY TOO MUCH that i don't know. I still think the use of "their" is an important clarification, "their" meaning Egyptians and Ethiopians instead of his (Isaiah's). But even if i completely take that word out i think i would still read it the same. What do you think, MOE?

From the Old Testament institute manual: "With the great importance attached to the clothing in the East, where the feelings upon this point are peculiarly sensitive and modest, a person was looked upon as stripped and naked if he had only taken off his upper garment. What Isaiah was directed to do, therefore, was simply opposed to common custom, and not to moral decency. He was to lay aside the dress of a mourner and preacher of repentance, and to have nothing on but his tunic; and in this, as well as barefooted, he was to show himself in public." (Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, 7:1:372) Isaiah 20:3-4 "And the Lord said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia; So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt." Please note the italicized word their, which i did not add, it's right in my Bible. I read this as "this will happen to you, only it will be worse 'cause you won't even have a tunic." I suppose i could be wrong, but i think that is what is being implied in these verses.

I waited for my missionary (in the loosest sense of the word because i did do a little bit of dating), and we got married 2 months after his return. Every case is individual but i will tell you the counsel i received directly from the Lord in my patriarchal blessing concerning my case. "... if your future companion should be called to serve a mission during your courtship, support him fully while he is on his mission and in his absence improve your knowledge of the gospel and strengthen your testimony, become familiar with the scriptures, that upon his return you and he can converse and communicate on his level, knowing that the gospel is true and seeing your faithfulness he will want you as his constant and eternal companion." Hope this helps a bit.

You are very, very welcome!

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Modesty: Reverence for the Lord a few quotes from above article (please note that this article was written by a member of the quorum of the 12, Robert D. Hales): "Some Latter-day Saints may feel that modesty is a tradition of the Church or that it has evolved from conservative, puritanical behavior. Modesty is not just cultural. Modesty is a gospel principle that applies to people of all cultures and ages. In fact, modesty is fundamental to being worthy of the Spirit. To be modest is to be humble, and being humble invites the Spirit to be with us. Of course, modesty is not new. It was taught to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. “Unto Adam … and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins, and clothed them” (Genesis 3:21; see also Moses 4:27). Like Adam and Eve, we have been taught that our bodies are formed in the likeness of God and are therefore sacred. “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? “… The temple of God is holy, which temple ye are” (1 Corinthians 3:16–17). Our bodies are the temples of our spirits. Additionally, our bodies are the means by which we can bring souls from the presence of God to their mortal state. When we recognize our bodies as the gifts they are and when we understand the missions they help us fulfill, we protect and honor them by how we act and dress. In everyday living, immodest clothing such as short shorts, miniskirts, tight clothing, shirts that do not cover the stomach, and other revealing attire are not appropriate. Men and women—including young men and young women—should wear clothing that covers the shoulder and avoid clothing that is low cut in the front or back or revealing in any other manner. Tight pants, tight shirts, excessively baggy clothing, wrinkled apparel, and unkempt hair are not appropriate. All should avoid extremes in clothing, hairstyle, and other aspects of appearance. We should always be neat and clean, avoiding sloppiness or inappropriate casualness.1 Modesty is at the center of being pure and chaste, both in thought and deed. Thus, because it guides and influences our thoughts, behavior, and decisions, modesty is at the core of our character. Our clothing is more than just covering for our bodies; it reflects who we are and what we want to be, both here in mortality and in the eternities that will follow." "what we wear will influence the behavior of others toward us" LDS.org - Family Chapter Detail - Chastity and Modesty from above (i found this interesting): "We can measure our standards of modesty by asking ourselves: How would I feel about my clothing if I knew the prophet were to visit in my home? Is my clothing a good example of what a Latter-day Saint girl or woman should wear? We should practice modesty within our own homes. Even small children should be modestly dressed and taught about modesty. We are responsible for the effect our dress standards have on others. Anything that causes improper thoughts or sets a bad example before others is not modest. It is especially important that we teach young girls not to wear clothes that would encourage young men to have improper thoughts. "

So what do you do with a new set of scriptures? Do you put all the markings and notes from your old scriptures in the new set or start over with all new markings and notes? Or do you do something else entirely (explain)?

I've always found it interesting that the General discussion board gets the most traffic instead of say the scripture study board. It seems many people are only here for the social network and to get some laughs rather than to really talk about the gospel or the scriptures and help other people understand or gain our own understanding. Sad. It also seems the only time the LDS discussion board or the learn about the mormon church board get a lot of traffic is if there's a controversial thread going on. I'm probably just as guilty as anyone on this, so thank you for the reminder Ben. I know i will try to be better.

I knew i could count on you, Hemidakota! Thank you for the article. We read and discussed it together. It was very helpful. Thank you again. :)

MOE, you are my hero!

My hubby and i have been studying the Doctrine and Covenants together. We came across a couple of verses that we found interesting. 58:21-22 Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land. Wherefore, be subject to the powers that be, until he reigns whose right it is to reign, and subdues all enemies under his feet. Now, we believe in the constitution and freedoms and rights. We have discussed many times what we should do if the government came to take away our guns or our food storage, and we really don't know what we would do. Especially when we read verses like this. We believe there is a "time of war" (see Ecclesiates 3). Captain Moroni is one of our favorite BoM characters, and we have a hard time imagining him giving up his sword. In fact he says in Alma 60 "it is according to [God's] commandments that I do take my sword to defend the cause of my country." I would enjoy hearing thoughts on this. Are there any hard and fast rules for when you fight and when you submit?

Oh what a beautiful morning, Oh what a beautiful day, I've got a beautiful feeling, Everythings going my way sorry, couldn't resist. Pretty pics. :)