Connie

Again, from above resource. “Kingdoms of Glory,” True to the Faith, (2004),92–95 Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected (see Alma 11:42–45). After we are resurrected, we will stand before the Lord to be judged (see Revelation 20:12; 3 Nephi 27:14). Each of us will be assigned to an eternal dwelling place in a specific kingdom of glory. The Lord taught this principle when He said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions” (John 14:2). There are three kingdoms of glory: the celestial kingdom, the terrestrial kingdom, and the telestial kingdom. The glory you inherit will depend on the depth of your conversion, expressed by your obedience to the Lord’s commandments. It will depend on the manner in which you have “received the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:51; see also 76:74, 79, 101). Celestial Kingdom The celestial kingdom is the highest of the three kingdoms of glory. Those in this kingdom will dwell forever in the presence of God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. This should be your goal: to inherit celestial glory and to help others receive that great blessing as well. Such a goal is not achieved in one attempt; it is the result of a lifetime of righteousness and constancy of purpose. The celestial kingdom is the place prepared for those who have “received the testimony of Jesus” and been “made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood” (D&C 76:51, 69). To inherit this gift, we must receive the ordinances of salvation, keep the commandments, and repent of our sins. For a detailed explanation of those who will inherit celestial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:50–70, 92–96. In January 1836 the Prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation that expanded his understanding of the requirements to inherit celestial glory. The heavens were opened to him, and he saw the celestial kingdom. He marveled when he saw his older brother Alvin there, even though Alvin had died before receiving the ordinance of baptism. (See D&C 137:1–6.) Then the voice of the Lord came to the Prophet Joseph: “All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; “Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom; “For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts” (D&C 137:7–9). Commenting on this revelation, the Prophet Joseph said, “I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven” (D&C 137:10). From another revelation to the Prophet Joseph, we learn that there are three degrees within the celestial kingdom. To be exalted in the highest degree and continue eternally in family relationships, we must enter into “the new and everlasting covenant of marriage” and be true to that covenant. In other words, temple marriage is a requirement for obtaining the highest degree of celestial glory. (See D&C 131:1–4.) All who are worthy to enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage will have that opportunity, whether in this life or the next. Terrestrial Kingdom Those who inherit terrestrial glory will “receive of the presence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father. Wherefore, they are bodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun” (D&C 76:77–78). Generally speaking, individuals in the terrestrial kingdom will be honorable people “who were blinded by the craftiness of men” (76:75). This group will include members of the Church who were “not valiant in the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:79). It will also include those who rejected the opportunity to receive the gospel in mortality but who later received it in the postmortal spirit world (see D&C 76:73–74). To learn more about those who will inherit terrestrial glory, see Doctrine and Covenants 76:71–80, 91, 97. Telestial Kingdom Telestial glory will be reserved for individuals who “received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus” (D&C 76:82). These individuals will receive their glory after being redeemed from spirit prison, which is sometimes called hell (see D&C 76:84, 106). A detailed explanation of those who will inherit telestial glory is found in Doctrine and Covenants 76:81–90, 98–106, 109–112. Perdition Some people will not be worthy to dwell in any kingdom of glory. They will be called “the sons of perdition” and will have to “abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory” (D&C 76:32; 88:24). This will be the state of “those who know [God’s] power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy [God’s] power” (D&C 76:31; see also D&C 76:30, 32–49). Additional references: 1 Corinthians 15:40–42, including footnote 40a;D&C 88:20–39; 130:18–19

The below is from this resource: LDS.org - Family Table of Contents - True to the Faith “Hell,” True to the Faith, (2004),81 Latter-day revelations speak of hell in at least two ways. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a place in the postmortal spirit world for those who have “died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets” (D&C 138:32). This is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances of salvation that are performed for them in temples (see D&C 138:30–35). Those who accept the gospel may dwell in paradise until the Resurrection. After they are resurrected and judged, they will receive the degree of glory of which they are worthy. Those who choose not to repent but who are not sons of perdition will remain in spirit prison until the end of the Millennium, when they will be freed from hell and punishment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:81–85). Second, the word hell is used to refer to outer darkness, which is the dwelling place of the devil, his angels, and the sons of perdition (see D&C 29:36–38; 76:28–33). Sons of perdition are those who receive “no forgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame” (D&C 76:34–35; see also 76:31–33, 36–37). Such individuals will not inherit a place in any kingdom of glory; for them the conditions of hell remain (see D&C 76:38; 88:24, 32).

Here's a quote from this talk: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Beware of Pride "The scriptures testify that the proud are easily offended and hold grudges. (See 1 Ne. 16:1–3.) They withhold forgiveness to keep another in their debt and to justify their injured feelings."

Well, in that case, i sincerely apologize for misunderstanding the intents and purposes of this thread. I see in going back to the beginning of the thread that i was not the only one to misunderstand, and that, at least, makes me feel not quite so alone.

Thank you, point taken. I know i can be abrupt, but i don't mean anything hateful by it. It's just me trying to prove my point. I rather like it when someone can prove me wrong through the scriptures. Truth is truth regardless of the source.

I'm sorry to see that some have chosen to take offense at my words. I bear no malice toward anyone on this site. I'm sorry some have chosen to read condemnation into my words. I assure you i felt no anger or bitterness when presenting my posts. I have made no personal attacks, at least that i can tell. I have attacked ideas and opinions, even without reservation, but that is not the same thing. I have presented my opinion and given scriptural proofs to back it up. I ask the same of anyone else. Prove to me that we are not to follow the example Christ set for us in His earthly ministry. Prove to me that we should not warn our neighbor. I have already agreed that we are not to condemn anyone. I don't feel i have done that in any of my posts.

I'm certain i could, but will forbear for now.

Janice, i am also glad you are not leaving. And i can definitely understand your frustration. All this forum stuff takes a great deal of getting used to or at least it did for me. Thank you for softening up your post #61. It was rather hard to see the agreement with all those personal insults interlaced.

Whoa, Christ commanding us to do the things he did doesn't give us the right to do them?!! Well, that's news to me! Since we all seem to understand and agree with Elder Oaks that there are two meanings to the word 'judge' then I hope you can see that when we are told not to judge in scripture it is referring to condemnation and when we are told to judge righteously it is referring to warning. So, if we're all on the same page, then herein lies my confusion. You all still seem to be saying that we should not warn our neighbor. So let's talk about what it means to be a member missionary. Let's talk about what it means to be of the tribe of Ephraim. Let's talk about D&C 1:4-6, “And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days. And they shall go forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them. Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants,” Let's talk about what it means to be a disciple or servant of Christ. I would hope that whether truth is spoken by my neighbor or by my church leaders that I would have the courage to follow it. Now how these truths and warnings are spoken can be very important. I'm with you there. How we chose to proclaim these truths can be all the difference in the world in how they are received. And many times it is best to do nothing because it is not our place. I'm with you there, too, but that does not change the fact that we need to be doing it. We simply need to make sure we are worthy of the Holy Ghost to guide us in how to proceed, whether to speak or be silent, how to word things, whether we need tact or boldness, etc.

This is a shout out to any and all who have read this book. I am looking for thoughts, opinions, insights, comments or whatever else went through your minds as you read this book. Thanks!

changed: Those are really cool!

As evidenced by the quotes you chose to focus on, i can't help but think, Janice, that to you judge and condemn are the same thing. I see the word 'judge' more in light of a warning. "it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor." (D&C 88:81) Perhaps it is wrong of me to think of judging in this way. But when my leaders "judge and correct" me, i don't feel condemned, i feel liberated. Perhaps this is why i feel this way about judgment. Final judgment = condemnation. We are not to make final judgments = we are not to condemn. From the article Judge Not and Judging by Dallin H. Oaks: "Even the Savior, during His mortal ministry, refrained from making final judgments. We see this in the account of the woman taken in adultery. After the crowd who intended to stone her had departed, Jesus asked her about her accusers. “Hath no man condemned thee?” (John 8:10). When she answered no, Jesus declared, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more” (John 8:11). In this context the word condemn apparently refers to the final judgment (see John 3:17). The Lord obviously did not justify the woman’s sin. He simply told her that He did not condemn her—that is, He would not pass final judgment on her at that time. This interpretation is confirmed by what He then said to the Pharisees: “Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man” (John 8:15). The woman taken in adultery was granted time to repent, time that would have been denied by those who wanted to stone her." So telling her to "sin no more" (or shall we say "you are wrong, fix it"?) was not a condemnation, it was a warning. (or shall we say judgment?) Again from same article: "During His mortal ministry the Savior made and acted upon many intermediate judgments, such as when He told the Samaritan woman of her sinful life (see John 4:17–19), when He rebuked the scribes and Pharisees for their hypocrisy (see Matt. 15:1–9; Matt. 23:1–33), and when He commented on the comparative merit of the offerings of the rich men and of the widow’s mites (see Mark 12:41–44)." "The Savior also commanded individuals to be judges, both of circumstances and of other people." Are we not to follow the Savior's example in all things? "ye know the things that ye must do in my church; for the works which ye have seen me do that shall ye also do; for that which ye have seen me do even that shall ye do;" (3 Nephi 27:21) Again, "it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor." (D&C 88:81) Hopefully this explains a little better where i am coming from.

Moroni 7:16-17 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil (so, wait a minute, every man may know what is right and what is wrong, absurd!); wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him. Whoa! What a blanket statement! You mean things are black and white, they can only lead someone to Christ or away from Him! Absolutely crazy! I would hope that someone would be willing to point out that i have lipstick on my teeth, just as i would do for them. Do unto others as you would have others do unto you!

These statements are both the words of Christ when you consider the fact that "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." D&C 1:38

I think we get so caught up on the "judge not lest ye be judged" that we forget that "it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil" (Moroni 7:15). Here is a thread on this topic from a while back that has some good insights and information. http://www.lds.net/forums/lds-gospel-discussion/14315-possible-not-judge-thy-neighbor-thyself.html Like the last post in the above thread, i wonder if we are confusing the words 'judge' and 'condemn.' They are two very different things. And please everyone read this article that Mike posted. It is SO good. LDS.org - Ensign Article - “Judge Not†and Judging

I'm all for dating other people, but at some point in your dating journey you are going to want to develop "one-itis." Otherwise marriage may never occur.

There is also a lot of good information in this book: StrengtheningMarriage.com Online Bookstore Note in particular chapters 14, 15 and 16.

Granted, but now you have a hair ache (let me know what that's like, i've never had one). I wish i could be a witch for a day, then i could take my wand and with a swish and flick yell wingardium leviosa and knock out any and all trolls with their own clubs!

Welcome! Hope you enjoy yourself here. :)

I think you mean Moroni is your hero. He is most definitely one of mine. I'll keep looking, but i did find this. LDS.org - Ensign Article - Forgiveness: The Ultimate Form of Love "It is reported that President Brigham Young once said that he who takes offense when no offense was intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense was intended is usually a fool. It was then explained that there are two courses of action to follow when one is bitten by a rattlesnake. One may, in anger, fear, or vengefulness, pursue the creature and kill it. Or he may make full haste to get the venom out of his system. If we pursue the latter course we will likely survive, but if we attempt to follow the former, we may not be around long enough to finish it."

Hello and welcome! My hubby served his mission in Nebraska, so he's a fan as well. Might we get the story on your username?

Present! Make sure you all vote on my poll: Polls » LDS Mormon Network One of my favorite quotes on The Lord of the Rings: "If someone dislikes it, I shall never trust [his] literary judgment about anything again." -W.H. Auden makes me laugh!

Ahhh, gotta love the threads on judgmentalism! They have to be the most judgmental threads i've ever read. Maybe we should talk about those who judge those whom they perceive as judgmental. Much like Laman and Lemuel. 1 Nephi 17:22 And we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people; and our father hath judged them, and hath led us away because we would hearken unto his words; yea, and our brother is like unto him. And after this manner of language did my brethren murmur and complain against us. My favorite chapter on this very topic (just to throw it out there): Moroni 7 My question is this: Where is it written that we have a "right to offense?" I always thought we were "required to forgive all men." D&C 64:10

I think i see where we're getting off. You are referring to mortal perfection. In that case, you are absolutely right. I am, however, referring to immortal or eternal perfection. In that case, a perfect driver would not need a perfect car to drive perfectly. God works through imperfect people, but he works perfectly nonetheless. "God has chosen to work through those whom the world regards as weak and foolish. (See 1 Cor. 1:27; D&C 1:19, 28; D&C 133:58–59.)" -Neal A. Maxwell Talk on mortal perfection and eternal perfection: LDS.org - Ensign Article - Perfection Pending Talk on how God works through imperfect people: LDS.org - Ensign Article - “Out of Obscurityâ€

I do not consider any mortal man infallible, but i do consider God infallible. Doctrine and Covenants Official Declaration 1 "The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty." "It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all..." -Wilford Woodruff So then i suppose it depends on whether or not someone believes that God is at the head of this church.