bmy-

All over the place The only requirement to enter the Celestial kingdom is baptism.

We are co-eternal with God. Neither of us had a 'beginning' and neither of us shall have an end. No gods can be formed before or after.. because we're co-eternal.

For that matter make him live on his own and pay for college. That'll teach em. I'm a full-time student and I work part-time.. i'm 21 -- and I can barely pay my tuition. Starting in January I'll be doing so much school I won't have time for a job. How should I support myself? The 'shunning of gay family members' is horribly common. It's pathetic and it's a problem that honestly has to be fixed.

Damnation is damnation. Which pain is the more severe.. spiritual or physical? The righteous will dwell in 'everlasting burnings' also..

Testimony is the LDS way of saying 'faith' I think. They express their faith when bearing their testimony.. and the things they have testimony of increased their faith and made a noticeable difference in their lives.

Who says that the middle ground must be lukewarm? Perhaps the LDS view is the lukewarm one.. as it is neither hot nor cold The LDS Church has not always had a ban on alcohol, etc. Even post-Word of Wisdom moderation was still the key. Now.. it's 100% abstinence. It seems plain to me that sometimes God would rather us err on the side of caution.. which seems to be exactly where PC is.

Whence cometh God?

And this is the middle ground/bottom line. Carl.. if you do not mind me asking -- how is our doctrine really any different? If one does not make it to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.. it is taught that they are in effect damned. Hell is Hell.. both versions sound painful. (D&C 43:33) "And the wicked shall go away into unquenchable fire, and their end no man knoweth on earth, nor ever shall know, until they come before me in judgment." (3 Nephi 27:11) "But if it be not built upon my gospel, and is built upon the works of men, or upon the works of the devil, verily I say unto you they have joy in their works for a season, and by and by the end cometh, and they are hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence there is no return."

Are you kidding? Unless you're using some whacked out definition of 'Christian' it happens fairly often in the OT and in the Book of Mormon. I hope I do not need to post more verses.. one should be enough. 1 Nephi 4:12 "And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands;"

Let's not hijack this thread

I'm fairly liberal.. but it is because I refuse to take the ability to choose out of the equation. For example... I am pro-choice but anti-abortion. I'm all for homosexual couples getting the same benefits heterosexual couples get, etc.

Proof and belief go hand in hand. That is why I mentioned it.

I find it odd that women 'know' when life begins.. yet on the other hand they do not know when it ends inside the body. That's besides the point that women do not know they are pregnant until there are testable signs.

Which is simply another way of saying that there is no evidence for God, right? The default position is the lack of belief..

Starving infants learn nothing.. this is an age old question. “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -Epicurus

Seems to pretty much cover it IMO.. "And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me." -- Joseph Smith

As to when the soul populates the body.. it is/has been taught that it is effectively during the 'first breath'. It makes 'us' parasites of sorts No doctrine exists on the matter as far as I know.. but the above is widely accepted it seems.

In reality.. we live in a different world compared to the one that existed when young and lasting marriages were common place. You've heard the statistic that 50% of all marriages end in divorce now.. and unfortunately.. it's true. Here's another statistic.. People who marry at 18 and under have a divorce rate that is ~50%.. while those who marry at 25 or older have a 26%. My assertion is backed up by facts and statistics. Of course in a situation with 2 level headed, logical, and mature teenagers.. they'll be fine. Provided financial strain doesn't do them in of course. The younger the people in the marriage the higher the divorce rate.. and that's the bottom line. It holds true for mormons, catholics, and baptists alike..

I completely expect it to be a very long year without her.. but a necessary one. Thankfully with the internet being as awesome as it is we'll only be physically separated. Was it worth the long 2 years? I'm a convert And a fairly recent one at that.

Long ago. Unfortunately.. I never get a straight answer. I'm not holding her next to me.. had she wanted to leave she could. If she wants to leave now she could. I think it is best to date for a long time and have a long engagement. I've got an eternity to go.. why rush it? The problem isn't the debt.. it's the debt with no job or degree to pay it off.. or time to work to pay it off. I'm in college and I will be full-time for the next 20 months or so. The 'plan' so far is this: -I live in New Orleans while going to LSUmed for a year and a half -She lives in Alabama for 12 months and finishes her computer animation degree -She moves to Louisiana and stays with my Grandma when I have 6 months to go -Engaged with a few months to go before I finish school -I'm in a situation where I can support her and I and get bills paid I don't see any real holes in it except that it takes a while. I've waited 3 years.. I can't wait 18 months more. Thankfully she buys into the plan 100% but I really am open to suggestions because if it can be better then it can change. Again.. I want to stress.. please be gentle to the 'serious couples' because it's tough on us. We seriously considered switching wards and keeping our identity secret

Sacrifices.. sometimes I feel like that's all I do It's been tough and I really hold no fairy tale views of relationships. Give and take isn't half of it.. and we aren't even married yet. 35 years of marriage.. that's awesome. Keep going strong. I'm going to be under a mountain of debt without a job or degree. I fully intend to marry the girl when I finish college. I just think it's unwise to enter into marriage without a stable financial situation. That's relationship suicide it appears. I did think about it a while.. every day. My answer is this: Sometimes what you want is not what is best. Sometimes you have to walk through hell for a heavenly cause. It's not easy or fun for either of us -- it's awful -- but necessary. Just wish people would look at marriage realistically.. I don't know if i'll quite make it to 25 Then again.. it creeps up fast, doesn't it? I'm still wondering where years 19 and 20 went to.. Thanks for every ones thoughts. It was just weighing down on me. I laughed quite a few times reading this thread today.

It's been bugging me lately.. i've been dating my girlfriend for 3 years this coming December. Yes, that's a long time.. especially for us LDS. Yes, we're basically 21 going on 30 in the eyes of the LDS population. Why all the pressure to get married? They don't want us to make a "mistake" seems to be the common response.. but if we did make a mistake it's not like they would find out anyways. That's a personal choice and none of their business. People (read: women in the ward ) seem more interested in fantasy romance than they do in reality.. I personally think it's foolish to rush into marriage. I'm a full-time college student who is going to be under a mountain of debt in 18 months. Why would I marry the girl I love when I can't support her much less support myself? I work 12-15 hours a week and that barely pays my gas to and from school. It's a bit of a rant I suppose.. sorry The divorce rate is quickly rising in the LDS Church and I really do think the church culture has a lot to do with it. I shouldn't let it bother me.. but in Relief Society my girlfriend is constantly under fire about it. It's a well designed trap, I think.

I've been with my girlfriend for 3 years.. just as a recommendation -- date for as long as possible. 3 years later I'm still learning things about her and we're still growing as people. I'm of the opinion that marriage before 22 or 23 at the earliest is a little foolish. Sometimes foolishness can turn out to be wonderful in the end.. but there's a reason for the rising divorce rate in the Church and the pressure on kids to get married plays a large role in it. One last piece of advice.. once you have a person you are committed to.. there are no such things as "just friends" when dealing with opposite-gender individuals becomes very dangerous and should be avoided at all costs. There are a few exceptions to the rule of course.. but they're few and far between.

Good luck. You're an adult.. they're adults.. at the very least they should respect your decisions. Do not let them guilt trip you.. you've done nothing wrong. Even by 'hiding' your personal life.. it's really none of their business. There's no such thing as absolute morality.. I hope they'll realize that by the time you're through with them. Talk about an uncomfortable situation though..

Swim, diet in a healthy manner (calories are NOT bad), and lift fairly heavy weights (increase metabolism). With the rehab you went through.. your leg should be healed. I would test the waters bit by bit.. and when you feel comfortable again -- implement intense cardio (sprints, etc) It's just me.. but I would personally recommend something like this.. my girlfriend was on a similar plan and lost about 5 lbs without paying strict attention to diet. 3 times a week (for 8 weeks, then 5 days off): (A, B, A.. and so on. You'll do workout A twice one week.. and then once the second week, and so on.) A: 'Heavy' (5x6) Squats, Abs (planks, leg lifts, hanging leg raises), Standing DB Shoulder Press (5x6) and about 10 minutes of stretching. Rest 60-90 seconds in between sets. B: Rows (5x6) [machine is alright], Stiff-legged deadlifts (5x6), Lat-pulldowns (5x6) A: 'Heavy' (5x6) Squats, Abs (planks, leg lifts, hanging leg raises), Standing DB Shoulder Press (5x6) and about 10 minutes of stretching. Rest 60-90 seconds in between sets. After 8 weeks and your 5 day rest (Limit physical activity).. 6 days a week: 30 pullups 60 pushups Abs (leg lifts, planks, crunches) Spread it out over the day.. do 10 pullups an hour, etc. You can find some pretty cheap pullup bars that you can stash in a closet at your local stores. I saw an article on this website and it really got me looking at implementing 'high frequency' workouts after a strength phase.. Just some advice. It was as much for me as it was for you