bmy-

It's the defining piece of mormon literature and I like to call it 'quasi-doctrine'. It's been quoted by prophets, apostles, general authorities, seen in the Ensign, Church news letters, handbooks (priesthood!) To put it simply: If it did not cover such a broad spectrum of challenging subjects it would be binding doctrine. Besides.. the Church has a firm 'milk before meat' policy.. even if I disagree with it It's much like the Apocrypha I think -- you can learn alot -- but you're on your own and the Church isn't going to hold your hand through it.

I think that pretty much sums it up.. A few quotes from the KFD verse which address the idea that God has not always been God.. and that he worked for his exaltation much like we do. On the point that it was simply 'jotted down'.. I disagree. There were near 20,000 people in attendance or so I read.. and many of those were taking notes. That is not including those who were instructed to take notes as an assignment. "it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." "..but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." Wiki says this.. "This amalgamation was done by church employee Jonathan Grimshaw roughly ten years after Smith's death and is generally regarded as the "official" LDS Church version because it was carefully reviewed, edited, and approved by LDS authorities including Brigham Young." (Wiki also mentions the KFD as nearly [likely] 'topically complete') http://byustudies.byu.edu/shop/pdfsrc/18.2Larson.pdf But combine his remarks in the KFD.. with the 'As man is' couplet.. and the picture seems pretty clear to me. God was once a man just like us -- and at one point in time he had not yet arrived at the station of a God. Your argument deals with the how he arrived at that station. Was it on his own merit and him the first..? I wonder which God the KFD is speaking of when it says '"The head one of the Gods brought forth the Gods"..? Is it Heavenly Father or someone above him.. I don't think there's enough evidence to tell. As to this point ... I do not think God worships his God like we do ours (if He does have a God). But I am not quite sure where I stand.. I think i'll sit on the fence for now.

Did the early LDS members not ask for tolerance..? Live and let live. It doesn't bother me a bit that our society as a whole is moving away from 'Christian' values.. It works in cycles..

I was not aware of this. I always thought 'outer darkness' was an oblivion like state. Hemi.. can you elaborate for me? I do like the idea of 'Outer Darkness' essentially being 'paradise lost'.

The word 'investigator' is not negative at all. If someone hears someone call you an investigator.. you pretty much receive the red carpet

Perhaps that is why there are so many different interpretations of our scriptures.. typos

It's so cool how it works Most people do not make it as far as the actual IVF.. they only need the 'reproductive therapy'.

Hmm. I can't think of any other way to say it. Which is not shocking.. my imagination is not the best It helps that I was a tiny little boy once I think How do you define it? How does one 'worship' something else? The only thing I can think of is that you do things to please the person? That is included in respect for me. I've stated on here before that I cannot worship anything or anyone.. I do not know how. I only know how to respect.

It's a rewarding experience and if you really do not have much to do PLEASE look into this. You'll be making some family extremely happy and giving them a child they could not otherwise have. It's a very strict application process.

I do not have mine.. but I describe it as an 'outward sign of an inward covenant'.

Have you looked into IVF? My mother works in that field and really is an amazing thing. Yes.. it is expensive -- but you can't put a price on having a pain in the butt that is all your own. I love science

When we are little children.. the way we looks at our parents (specifically young males towards their fathers) seems to be something very close to worship. He's the coolest guy ever. He's so strong, smart, fast.. nobody could be better. You age a little bit.. and you begin to look at him more like a friend. I do not see any reason it must be different with Heavenly Father. We 'worship' Him because.. well.. when compared to Him we have the mind of an infant for now. The more we progress the more we will realize that worship is just respect.

I'm pro-choice. Anti-abortion.. but yes, pro-choice.

Yes, this is correct. But he also states that men (us) exist in like manner. Another quote.. "My [Heavenly] Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father"

We refer to the LDS Church as 'living'. I certainly think that the words of former prophets carry weight.

He has not been a God for all eternity. Not if you take the KFD as doctrine at least. Unless by God you mean 'man'? If that were the case then -we- would also have been Gods for all eternity (using 'God' as our species). When I say "he has not been a God" I mean he has not always been at the station of a God.

It's quoted frequently in General Conference by the Prophet, Apostles, and GAs, LDS handbooks (Teachings of Prophet Joseph Smith), and the LDS website. It was given as revelation and binding doctrine by Joseph Smith and I think that qualifies it as doctrine if not 'scripture'.

It's a quote from Joseph Smith given during a 'talk'. given by the Prophet Joseph Smith at the April 7, 1844, conference of the Church in Nauvoo, Illinois. Some twenty thousand Saints were assembled. You can read the entire thing here LDS.org - Ensign Article - The King Follett Sermon and LDS.org - Ensign Article - The King Follett Sermon (part II)

Because certain things have been taught differently over time.

It is widely accepted (or it should be). 1) We are of the race as God (literal offspring of Heavenly Father/Mother) 2) It follows that God would be the same race as his father and mother (literal offspring) I don't think that's much of a stretch at all. "To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before." That should pretty much put the nail in this henotheism vs monotheism coffin.

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens" -- Joseph Smith (spoken with authority) If God is a man.. how could he create His race?

Do we have children to glorify ourselves? ... I'll never understand why my mother chose to have me -- i'm a pain in the butt EDIT: But I'm HER pain in the butt.. and that makes all the difference.

"The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord's Prayer? How could He have met with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being." - President Hinckley I edited this in but it was to late. Adam/God doctrine was disputed even while it was being taught by Brigham.. which lead to Brighams 'how much disbelief exists' quote. If they are separate beings and not mere extensions of the Father it cannot be monotheistic. That's really the bottom line.

Yep. You would be surprised :)

Adam-God theory was mainly taught by Brigham and has since then been dismissed by the Church has false. The henotheist version of the Godhead (3 distinct individuals who are ONE in purpose only) has been taught in General Conference by Prophets, Apostles, GAs, is in LDS handbooks.. and is doctrine. 3 separate and distinct individuals, one purpose = Godhead Unfortunately.. we are not arguing semantics. Godhead and the Trinity are not the same. One is henotheistic and the other is monotheistic.. and that's a huge difference. "The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord's Prayer? How could He have met with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being." - President Hinckley