Prodigal_Son

Holy cow! You keep diving. I'll be over here in the shallows. Let me know what you come up with when you get to the bottom! By the way, what is your basis for thinking that not all were at the Council in Heaven? Just curious. It'd never even crossed my mind. Part of that is probably b/c my P.Blessing speaks vividly of that Council and my participation in it...

DeborahC: don't hold back. Tell us how you REALLY feel. As a point of clarification, I wasn't inferring that the sins of the father didn't negatively affect the son. Only that: just because the father may or may not have been punished, doesn't mean that some change in physical characteristics for the son means that God is marking that son as just as guilty/inferior as the father. Hmmmm, I'm not sure I'm making my point... Clear as mud?

Regardless of whether or not some folks were "turned" black, to deride an entire race because they chose to have children is just ridiculous. Do we really think that God is exiling his less valiant spirit children to Africa? Or to inner cities? I suspect that whatever may have (or not) happened initially no longer applies to the current generations. Were the lamanites' posterity lesser people? Of course not. The same applies today. The sins of the father are not the sins of the son.. but the genetics of the father ARE the genetics of the son.

As long as there's a basketball court in each church building, I'm all in.

Weird. That's the part that totally freaked me out.

By the way, I could've sworn that UT was barely 50/50 on Mormon population these days... Anyone got a fresh, accurate statistic?

Good advice. I would add, however, that something so trivial as this is hardly relevant to one's salvation. Thus, unless you are having testimony issues regarding the matter - or just have a personal interest - then you probably have better things to do. No offense to anyone. Nor do I impune anyone's beliefs. I merely suspect there are more valuable nuggets of doctrine worth our speculation.

I don't know that this furthers the conversation at all, but when I was in college (Anthropology 101), my professor showed us a letter sent from "The Church" back in the 70's stating that "The Church" has no formal stand on evolution... That being said, I can't see how evolution, to some extent, can be denied by anyone. The modern housefly has evolved into a being tolerant of most all pesticides applied at normal rate... Examples abound...

Joseph didn't let young Jesus work in the carpenter shop until he was 16. And then only part time.

I concede that there are exceptions - but those exceptions seem to simply revolve around what may or may not be "suicide" by definition. Again, though, it's in the Lord's hands to judge.

Might even be worth reviewing Holland's conference talk. Incredible... as always.

I sympathize with such a weariness. I reached a low spot like that in my life several years ago... But I couldn't face cutting out now and paying the price for eternity. I also didn't want to kill myself only to instantly find myself in heaven with my own blood on my hands. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot (eternally)!!!

I'd have done the same thing. This was a side job - something extracurricular. Why shouldn't he make money? Good for him. More tithing to the church. It's all good. If it encourages others to seek their fortunes writing uplifting and edifying material, that's awesome. I'd much rather send my money to them than Hollywood for my entertainment.

This will sound a bit harsh - and was, perhaps, already mentioned (I haven't backtracked all the way through what I missed) - but suicide is a declaration that you know better than God, and ultimately represents a profound lack of faith in His ability to care for you and know what's best for you. I condemn no one, mind you. I can't begin to imagine what some folks face. This is just a "clinical" description of the error in judgment that suicide is.

You're not alone. It took three tries to get past book one. But then I liked it. I think Lund's a "B" writer - but the concept and idea was magnificent. Truth be told, it was maybe 2 - 3 books worth of history and 6 - 7 books of soap opera... But that was the only way to fluidly connect all the disjointed components of church history. But it was a great series in that regard - he managed to include soooo much of the early saints' history. (Though I got real tired of everyone's voices going "husky"...) Lund was just released in Conference from his calling in the second Quorum of the Seventy.

Good call. I just hate hearing people bear their testimonies about the poowerful example of Nathan Steed. :lol: Seriously, though, The Fire & The Covenant (in my opinion) was even better. Soooo powerful; so moving.

I simply mean Joseph. Everything hinges on him, as he was the mortal creator/presenter/author of it all. But since I couldn't come to terms (at the time) with Brother Joseph, I had to look at what he did/created/accomplished - his "fruits". And having a firm belief in the Book of Mormon, and recognizing the Church's authority and rightness (is that a word?? :) ), I was able to determine that the only way Joseph could have brought about such powerful truths - was by being pure, holy, and divinely directed himself. Did that make sense, or did I muddy the waters a bit?

Rockwoodchev: good articles. Food for thought. You seem to be thinking things through pretty well. I guess I'm one of those types who has an emotional connection to my money. I'm one of those who is just sure that when I stick my money in the market, that (in time) it's as good as gone...

:lol::lol: Fair enough.

This is HEAVILY FLAWED. You're not paying 5% because the interest is graduated. Pull out your last mortgage payment and calculate the percentage of interest vs. principle. Not until the last couple years of a mortgage are you actually paying near what you think your rate is. These loans are front loaded. You may still be better off, but don't kid yourself into thinking 12-5=7, because it doesn't. Not to mention the fact that investing right now is like Russian roulette... Don't forget that he repeatedly stated that he paid it off just as fast as he could and encouraged others to do the same. ================= I'm not picking a fight or anything. And I hope this doesn't come across as disrespectful. I just saw a flaw in the logic that seemed vital to understanding the problem fully. Maybe I'm just too timid, but considering the state of affairs today, I'd say pay off your house so it's truly yours, and then go from there... Cash in the hand is one thing - a volatile and temperamental investing market is something else entirely. So my vote would be to play it safe. Build on a rock. A paid for rock. THEN move on to bigger and better things. That way, if the business fails, your monthly financial obligations are very minimal...

A bird in the hand... I'd be paying off that mortgage in a heartbeat. President Hinckley always encouraged that...

Just thought I'd reiterate this since a couple of posts have suggested CatchTheRedEye read a book listed as already having been read. :)

Right after high school my life went down the crapper. I made poor choice after poor choice. During that lowest spot of my life, I remember having this ??fear?? that Joseph might have been a charlatan. I struggled for months with that concern. I'd come up with alternative explanations for everything he did/accomplished/proclaimed. Eventually, I got my life in order. And as I faced this doubt head-on, I guess I addressed the problem with the old "by their fruits ye shall know them" approach. Though I couldn't, at the time, directly reconcile Joseph Smith - I realized that I had complete faith in the church and the Book of Mormon... And, therefore, Joseph was legit - else he couldn't have brought those miracles to fruition.

If you want a terrific and comprehensive overview of church history, there's an old institute manual that can't be beat. It's waaaay cheap and is easy to read, while still being informative. Church History In The Fulness of Times is the title. Here's a link: Church History in the Fullness of Times This book is one of those that I love to just pick up on a lazy Sunday afternoon, open randomly, and begin to read. A must have.

I'm self employed. I offer a luxury service. So far I've felt a pinch, but nothing too brutal. But, because I offer a service that most could do for themselves, it's entirely possible that I'm going to see a massive falling out as I try to secure work for next season...