Prodigal_Son

What makes you feel that a mission is unrealistic? Same question for college?

I don't disagree at all that you posted an accurate definition of "know". It was simply that the way I read your post inferred that your definition was the only proper interpretation. That's all.

Almost quit reading the posts and responded with this exact thought. Glad to see someone else feels the same.

Where is this online version posted?

Just trying to keep my disagreement pleasant.

Sorry, Hemi. Deepest respect to your knowledge and faith, but I have to politely (but firmly) disagree here. I happen to KNOW I cannot breathe in space, though I have no first hand witness. I happen to KNOW that swimming in hot lava will be bad for my complexion - though I have no first hand witness. The ancillary truths I've learned regarding my need for oxygen, etc allow me to KNOW these things without first hand proof. The same goes for my KNOWING that God lives, my KNOWING that Jesus Christ is my Redeemer, for KNOWING that His gospel was restored through Joseph Smith...

I'll see what I can do.

Yeah, I thought I'd better check in and stir the pot for a bit.

Yes, this is what I was alluding to in parenthesis. I don't disagree with this at all. But I don't buy for a second that this is the basis for sending out our young men. I think it's just a bonus.

Haha. Some would agree with that assessment. I grew up in Kansas, though, and spent much of my childhood wrangling bass and catfish out of old farmers' ponds. I miss it and never get the chance anymore. In fact, I have a buddy coming over with his backhoe in a couple weeks to dig me my OWN pond out in my back acreage! Woohoo! I can't wait to sit on the bank with my 4 boys, catching fish and talkin' 'bout life!

You're in a tough spot. You want to protect yourself from further hurt... but at the same time, I can tell you that if you can't reach a point where you can fully forgive him and let this go - that you'll never get over it and will begrudge him this lapse forever. That's fine and dandy... but doesn't entitle him to neglect your needs. Don't forget that. Most likely the BEST thing you could possibly do for your marriage. Eternal perspective is the key to weathering virtually every storm that blows in. They're hard b/c Satan knows how far those simple things can carry you (all the way to the Celestial Kingdom, worlds without end). The adversary throws EVERYTHING he can in your path to distract you, upset you, keep you from committing any of your resources to your spiritual progression.Do NOT let him win.

What? Did someone say free lunches?

There's a broad spectrum of the definition of "know" when spoken behind a church pulpit. I, for one, "know" - though I've seen no angels, enjoyed no theophany, touched no plates, heard no choirs from heaven... But the cumulative "believes" I can claim culminate together to form a logical conclusion that assures me I "know" of the truthfulness of this work. If you're struggling in your testimony (alongside your wife), I would encourage you to look at all you believe and think to be right - and see what all that adds up to. There will ALWAYS be things that are unanswerable - sometimes uncomfortable - and even don't always make sense in your head... but when one raised eyebrow is pitted against a thousand other positive witnesses you've experienced, the logical conclusion is clear. Good luck and have faith.

Something that has always stuck with me was the words of a friend right after he returned from a very successful mission. He looked at me in the eyes, and with complete sincerity (in response to a comment I'd made) said, [paraphrased] "Think about it: the Lord doesn't send 19 year olds out for others' sakes - he sends them for the 19 year old's." He then went on to explain how there isn't much less likely a candidate for an effective missionary than a 19 year old boy. (yes, yes, this is ignoring the witness of God's power through such a candidate.) While on the other hand, a 19 year old boy left to his own is very possibly at his most self-destructive stage of life. Those boys might be (and are) out there converting others, but I believe that - more than anything else - they're working on their OWN conversion.

I wonder if, from a member-perspective, we demand more of them because that lessens our burdens and responsibilities? WE, the members, have been asked repeatedly to do the finding, the preparing, etc... But if we can hitch that load to the full time Elders, then we don't have to feel guilty for failing in our obligations to proclaim the gospel...

I banned TV from our house for several years, b/c I have some people in my family who fail to respect the whole moderation in all things mantra. I just turned it back on a month ago, and things are much better. I'm able to TiVo my fishing shows and NBA games and watch them that one day a month where I have the time, energy, and motivation... There are MANY, MANY things in this life that require moderation - and TV is just one of them. It's kinda like table salt or water. Too much will kill you, but otherwise they're fairly useful resources.

Been there, done that - so to speak. While the REAL key is your relationship with God, might I suggest - in addition to that - a more terrestrial tool? When my wife and I were at that same type of stalemate (pun intended) , I was encouraged to read WITH MY SPOUSE the book "His Needs, Her Needs". It's not an LDS work, but it's allegedly the best-selling marital-counseling book published. It taught my wife and I to open our eyes to our spouse's top needs, and not just give them what we'd personally like (because men and women rate what is important to them as polar opposites). Give it a look and convince your insensitive and thoughtless (aren't we all?) husband that it's imperative he read it WITH you. Good luck and hang in there. There will come a light at the end of the tunnel if you hold on long enough.

Satan wasn't imposing temptation upon them, either. Look at what happened the moment he did. They covered themselves.

It's not the ONLY thing, but it is the most POTENT thing. Even for a righteous individual, garnering financial security is the clear path to a freedom that allows us to do all the other things we want to. Financial security affords missions, increases tithing and fast offerings, creates job opportunities for those we know (I worked several jobs in my early years for wealthy church members), it allows brethren to dedicate themselves to demanding callings (ever notice what a high percentage of stake presidents, mission presidents, and often bishops, are financially secure??), etc.“Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you. But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God. And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.” (Jacob 2:17-19) That's hardly an argument. Of course they got it from the government! Because the government confiscated/bought/swindled it all. Had Uncle Sam not done so, I'm confident those private enterprises would have simply dealt with the prior owners. I don't think there are too many that closed minded. But it's a simple fact of life that you have to help yourself first before you are in a position to help others (financially, spiritually, mentally, emotionally). Amen to that. We need to ban ALL lobbyists when we cut the government back down to size.

Hmmm, there's the United Order, but I just don't see that going global right now. Seriously, the problem you see with capitalism is that men are free to choose! And, sadly, we live in a world where many make poor choices; self-indulgent choices. That's the world we live in. And you hoping a change in government will fix that is fallacy. Only a change in man's basic nature will empower us to escape the darker deeds of the business world. So I guess that takes us back to missionary work. The humor in this statement is that it's bloated government with social programs that we cannot afford that are bankrupting us! Chop our monstrosity of a central government back to Constitutional size and we'll be on the road to recovery in a heartbeat. Don't listen to them in the first place.

Right on! That's fantastic!

Doesn't "The Miracle of Forgiveness" label sexual sin second to murder?

I'm a black and white kind of guy, so I apologize to those of you whom I'll offend by saying this: Nude art... porn... what's the difference? Like puttin' lipstick on a pig...

Hey, we're letting him print money on demand, so why would anyone worry about a piddly 10 g's being doled out?

How on earth has capitalism hurt the poor? Capitalism fuels competition, price cutting, job creation, etc. All these things benefit the poor. While capitalism may expose many men as selfish and greedy, socialism and communism are nothing more than Satan's plan tooled for government. The mistake you're making is to think that the only role player that exists to combat poverty is government. Puh-leaze! Again, that's Satan's plan. That's Big Brother taking, without asking, from him, him, and him, to dole out to others of often questionable need. What would happen if, perish the thought, a church was out there that took care of its members in need? Maybe had work programs? Maybe had education programs? Maybe had welfare programs? Wouldn't that be novel?! And, to think, if some church was so inspired, Uncle Sam would be off the hook! So maybe, rather than telling us the government should take a bigger role, you should be focusing on missionary work so that the Lord's system can have a bigger effect in this nation. You are aware, I hope, that economists are predicting the COMPLETE COLLAPSE of Britain's economy? And specifically because of socialistic practices whose burdens are too much for their stagnant economy to bear? Printing more money doesn't actually work in the long run. Again, government has no right or power to play any such role. You need to read the Constitution. Clearly the purpose of government has eluded you. I don't even know where to start with this inane comment. Capitalism is, in fact, making rich people richer. And you know HOW it's doing that? By creating more and more jobs and more and more resources that people want and need! Capitalism isn't just that one fat cat at the top who busted his hump for 30 years and is finally reaping the dividends of his efforts!!! Further, how does capitalism in America evoke a decline in 3rd world countries? Geez, most big capitalists are manufacturing IN those 3rd world countries - providing jobs that wouldn't otherwise exist, and generating massive tax streams for those governments! Oh, but that's right: those governments are socialist/communist/dictatorships/etc that don't redistribute the wealth properly. Come to think of it, what form of government out there ever has? And just as soon as Christ returns, we'll have someone capable of monitoring such a system. But until then, what looks so koombayah on paper doesn't work in the real world. Take a look around the globe. Socialism stagnates growth, development, progress, and revenues. How? By removing ALL incentive to work hard to create, build, develop... GET AHEAD. With exception going to the most altruistic in our society, how many people do you think will go to work day in and day out and give it 110% when there's no incentive to do so, beyond "keeping the cogs in the machine of big government turning"? I could go on, but I'd best leave it here for the moment. I think you guys need to put down "The Jungle" and pick up "Animal Farm".