Prodigal_Son

Not degrading her at all, but Gladys hasn't been tempted with fame. She only converted about 10 years ago. Thus, her life was established BEFORE she made the choice to convert.

Reminds me of the parable of the train that ??Hinckley?? taught back in the 90's. The one about how the train has been moving slowly, so people have been hopping on and off... but that it's going to accelerate to a point where - if you hop off - there's no getting back on.

Tidy things up in Iraq, try to come to some form of completion in Afghanistan. Not necessarily a quick thing, but we don't need to be starting in on Iran, Russia, etc in our current anemic state. As far as what would have to happen: we set them up with their own democratic infrastructure, make sure they're equipped for the myriad bumps in the road, and walk away. I also think having 75,000 active troops in Germany is just ridiculous, and having troops in 131 countries is also idiotic...

Haha. You rounded up! :lol:

I feel like we're hypocrites sometimes, the way we demand improvements elsewhere while we rot from within. Sometimes I fear the US has already peaked and is on the downhill slope... I support Hinckley's belief that we have to stand up for good and right, for the oppressed and downtrodden, but I think we need to finish our current engagements and then circle the wagons and try to get our OWN act together before worrying about others out there. We're in disarray and not prepared to continue a global fight for Right and Good. We need to clean our own house a bit, reorganize, and find steady ground here in the US of A before working on others... Just my own $0.02...

It's in the Book of Mormon, in the 8th chapter of 1st Nephi. Here's a link. There's MUCH more to it than just this one chapter. In fact, it has been said that "Lehi's Vision" (as we title it) is THE THEME of the Book of Mormon. Click here to read it: 1 Nephi 8

This is exactly why Bob Barr is getting my vote...

Soooo... no more Wendy's triple stacks?

Well, if I have to get scuffed up, I'll happily take a Hollywood paycheck along with it. :lol:

I have a 48-hour detox myself. I'm lucky, I guess. When my work season ends, I quit (temporarily). The first day off, it's all I can do to stay awake. The second day is like having the world's worst jet lag. Day 3: it's all good.

Wow. That's your basis for a sin vs. non-sin? Your perspective MIGHT be accurate. Buts it's also complete conjecture. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak, my friend. I've quit using it multiple times, only to find that I make a crummy businessman/father/husband when I'm trying to "stay clean". So I choose to accept this vice for the time being until I am in better mastery of my natural man and can conquer this particular weakness... I'd rather suffer the consequences of this SIN, rather than cause everyone around me to suffer while I try to avoid committing it. :)

As time continues to mellow me, I've developed in this area. I hold STEADFAST to the principle: "with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged." I try to cut slack for people as much as possible. How can I really care about their actions when I can list a dozen of my own that are FAR worse? If a person's behavior doesn't DIRECTLY influence me, then I just don't care. People are people. It's like Elder Wirthlin pointed out in conference last, when he said: "The Lord did not people the earth with a vibrant orchestra of personalities only to value the piccolos of the world. Every instrument is precious and adds to the complex beauty of the symphony." So you have issues? Congrats and join the club!!

Okay, glad we're just discussing and not fighting. (Sometimes it's a bit hard to tell.) We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I can see your point. And I don't disagree about the salvation of these two individuals... But from where I stand, when the prophet tells millions of viewers that we don't do it... then we DON'T do it. Or shouldn't be, anyhow. I'm pretty sure the proverbial "THUS SAITH THE LORD" isn't a requisite. PLUS, "For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for be that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant."

You imply the parable of the Prodigal Son here. But I don't think MUST is an appropriate description. The implication is that such wanderings are the ONLY way for them to appreciate the atonement. This isn't true.

What would you call "failure to heed the prophet" then? A spade's a spade. It isn't a BIG sin. I never said it was. But it's still sin.

Absolutely true. The thing that separates the sheep from the goats is that too many, when in doubt, seek answers from all the wrong sources. Instead of studying the scriptures, and the living prophets - and then praying IN FAITH on their knees... they talk it out with others - often those who will be sympathetic to their concerns. They google for answers (and heaven knows that you can find ANYTHING, be it true or false, via google). It's unfortunate, but it's also indicative of an already existent chink in the armor. Perhaps the doubt would never have arisen if they'd been faithfully studying and seeking personal revelation in the first place... I find the need to constantly remind members (and myself) that the 10 virgins and the goats/sheep were ALL church members!

I agree. If we were to label sites, we'd have so many Mormon archaeological digs, it'd be ridiculous. People'd be hunting for proof in the ground, instead of in the scriptures...

I think it's more a reality check of the fact that you cannot sit on the fence. You can't have one foot in Babylon and one in Zion. I don't mean to blanket condemn. But your point is well made. Gladys Knight is a recent convert. I lived in her Stake down in GA when she converted. Steve Young was specifically told to go out there and REPRESENT us. That's a lot of pressure to NOT screw it up. The others were folks who just happened to be LDS... On the other hand, Mark Madsen of the NBA's Timberwolves is a pretty die hard Mormon. He gets teased for his Book of Mormon type speech, his wacky dancing, and his clean living. There are others... But your point is valid. Satan happens to be DANGED good at what he does. He's had a LOT of practice. Perhaps our simple, obscure, financially-unimpressive lives are one of our greatest blessings??

I don't mean to be argumentative... but I guess I am. You're wrong. the prophet joined Mike Wallace on 60 minutes, representing the entire church and the following conversation ensued: Mike Wallace: Example. Mormons adhere to a very strict health code. No alcohol, no tobacco, no coffee, no tea, not even caffeinated soft drinks... Gordon B. Hinckley: Right. How are you going to twist that? Like I said, I'm a caffeine drinker. So please don't think of me as some holier-than-thou hypocrite. But I know, FOR A FACT, that my choice to consume these beverages is a sin.

It goes beyond the war. We the people fail miserably to hold politicians accountable for both their actions and inactions. We send them to Washington to represent us and our beliefs... but somehow that all gets lost in the bureaucratic shuffle. We need a better/more-efficient system to make our voices heard to those we've elected...

You're assuming it's new doctrine...

In Pres. Hinckley's first television interview, he was asked (paraphrasing), "Do you Mormons drink caffeinated sodas??" And Pres GBH said NO. End of discussion, as far as I'm concerned. I drink caffeinated pop, myself, to get through my work - but have no illusions about whether what I'm doing is sin or not.

I've actually been taught that paradise and prison are the same place. That's it's actually a matter of your own personal satisfaction or guilt while you await judgment. That, essentially, it's a prison for those who failed, but paradise for those who can rest assured that they succeeded... Anyone else taught this?

We're twins! Only I'm too young to be bald! I'd take mine back in a NY minute. I had low maintenance hair and miss it. I actually dream of regaining all my hair back at least once or twice a month! :lol:

It's easy to blame leaders. Such a common scapegoat. But who put those leaders in power? WE THE PEOPLE. So we hold SOME accountability, at the very least. We elect our leaders to power and we tolerate their abuse of it through inaction. The war is wretched, no doubt. Just like it was for Moroni. But the alternatives are worse. We could hash out woulda/coulda/shoulda's till the cows come home... but it's a complete waste of time beyond placing accountability on proper shoulders. MY point can be summed up by threepercent's quote from GBH: "It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression."