KristofferUmfrey

I wasn't aware you really intended for me to answer your obviously ridiculous questions. Have I read the entire JOD? No I have them at my disposal to check the context of any given quote. Do I have access to old "out of publication" Ward teaching materials? No (and I never claimed I did) Have I read said Ward Teaching materials? No Where did I find the quote? I remembered it from various things I've read through the years googled it and copied and pasted the first site that quoted it. I have no clue what the site was. I have nothing to hide.

I just go with the topics as they come up. Ben R.'s "good enough for me." statement about Elder Oaks and white shirts prompted my current wave of conversation. If you don't like it, don't participate.

Two cities? What's the other one besides Enoch? (which could be a whole other discussion, but I'll defer)

I'm consistent, I believe birth control is wrong too. My personal belief is that the spirits that go to children who ultimately miscarry are "reassigned" somewhere else or perhaps to the same family through a later successful birth. Either way whether they return or not, they never became accountable for any sins are are received into Paradise to await the resurrection.

Exactly! So why should I believe your leaders outlandish statements anymore then I should believe the TBN crowd? Do you think your church is the only one that has been teaching preparation for many years? Do you think your church is the only one that has been teaching against porn and the breakdown of the family for many years? LDS seem to think that there church leaders are the only people that recognized these and other issues early on, I can assure you they weren't alone in lifting a warning voice.

You are right... You DON'T know me very well and have no idea what I have read or how much I have studied. I have never in my life, except for an accidental passing glance, read anything that is anti-Restoration, ALL my studying comes from sources friendly to the Book of Mormon. All my study is independent, no human tells me what to believe, and anything I am told I take with a grain of salt, also I defend your church when somebody says something stupid I know isn't true when I COULD just let them go on believing what they like. Just because somebody doesn't agree with all of your church's teachings doesn't mean they are not studied in the subject or brainwashed by Southern Baptist ministers.

The 'Secret Jews' of San Luis Valley | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine Book of Mormon being proven true everyday. Hallelujah!

Islam can rule me out all they want, I have two independent witnesses of Jesus, His ministry, and His resurrection that I KNOW are true. Because I KNOW those two witnesses are true, whatever conflicts with them can be safely ruled out.

I am appreciative of those who have brought up conflicting statements of your leaders saying it is folly to blindly follow a man, shows you have at least pondered the issue. Now, there are some who say, "We should follow them obediently, receiving a witness of the Spirit". Perhaps you should read the full extant of HCK quote, where he says it is wrong to wait for a revelation or by the Spirit you should do as your told no matter what it is. The JOD is easy enough to find online. These conflicting teachings (amoung others) are reasons why I could no longer in good faith be a member of the LDS Church. You never know what is going to be taught next.

"if I follow my Bishops council in some spiritual matter and he was wrong....it will be the Bishop who is held accountable by the Lord and not me"

Do you really believe your Bishop will be accountable if you decide to follow his council and he was wrong? What happened to agency? You are responsible for the choices you make, no one else. Under this logic Hitler (if he had lived) is the only one that should have been convicted at Nuremburg, because they were just doing what their leader told them.

Don't get mad, just looking for people's thoughts.

"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan--it is God's Plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give directions, it should mark the end of controversy, God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God." Ward Teachers Message, Deseret News, Church Section p. 5, May 26, 1945 Also included in the Improvement Era, June 1945 (which was the official church magazine before the Ensign)" "Heber C. Kimball, First Councilor to Brigham Young, exhorted the Mormon people to "... learn to do as you are told, ... if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it, none of your business whether it is right or wrong" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.32)." I have the complete JOD at my disposal so I checked to make sure the Kimball quote is in context.

Bravo! Excellent thoughts, Ogilith!

Isn't it interesting... The most powerful man in the gayest place on Earth is straight. Long live Mickey and Minne, Donald and Daisy and the rest of the Disney Crew.

I can rule out Islam because it declares Jesus is not the Son of God, problem solved. The Vedas and the Tao can be seen more as philosophical texts and I have no problem with them in their historical context because they are most likely remnants of ancient truths finally written down after generations of verbal transference (which is why I can't accept them as scripture). The Torah IS in the Bible (or did you forget that?), so I do accept it as true and as authoritative scripture.

You can only use the JOD if I can use the JOD.

Oh, but young man you didn't carefully read must post or what I was responding to. The statement was made "If gay marriage was made legal, it wouldn't be fornication." THAT is what I was responding to, I said nothing about legally banning fornication. Or do you agree with the young lady that once it is the legal law, God's spiritual laws no longer apply to the situation. That was a valiant attempt to take my post out of context though!

That women who use abortion as birth control (the 93%) might have to suffer infection from back-alley abortions doesn't make me lose one wink at night.

Quite honestly someone who thinks unrestricted abortion is swell, thinks there are things worse then partial birth abortion, and believes abortion is akin to a common medical procedure has ZERO respect from me, and sometimes it shows in my writings

And God has said man shall not lie with man and women shall not lie with women. Even if the government passed laws allowing gay-marriage it would still be fornication because the Lord has declared sodomy a sin, period. If the government passed laws allowing adult men to have sex with "consenting" 9 year-old girls, would you think it was perfectly fine then?

Just avoid me I'm an evil apostate Muhahahahaha!!!! :evilbanana::evilbanana:

Never questioned your membership in the church, I'm not even Mormon. Bye.

No, I'm done with you. I refuse to have a discussion with someone who believes a baby isn't a viable life until it leaves the birth canal and can't see the difference between brutally murdering a baby and a common medical procedure.

Because one is murdering a baby. If you can't tell the difference you ARE truly lost.