KristofferUmfrey

Abortion: I align more with Catholic thought although I do think a woman that would die if giving birth is a exception, not anything else. The Fall: How else wold Adam and Eve know the value of eternal life with God if they never knew the opposite? The teaching just makes sense, and they realized what a gift it would be when they returned home to God. Angel of Light: satan transforming himself into an angel of light implies that there are angels of light he is trying to imitate. I see nothing wrong with the verse The other stuff is LDS specific ideas so I'll leave them to answer those.

Rameumpton 2nd post to me. I have explained that out of a desire to not offended or cause contention I will not discuss the LDS Endowment or my feelings on it other then to say I believe it is not scriptural. I will answer the first part of his post as time permits this weekend...

Originally Posted by rameumptom View Post So, what is your standing in this church you are establishing? Are you a prophet, THE prophet, or just a caretaker (as Sidney Rigdon offered to become)? And why would God select you to establish another Restorationist Church, wherein you accept the baptism and priesthood authority from the others, when they should be sufficient if they do hold that priesthood authority? In fact, if they do hold the priesthood authority, seems to me that their revelations and prophecies would be as valid as your own. Doesn't that make you redundant? Finally, you do realize that most of the Lectures of Faith were written by Sidney Rigdon, and not Joseph Smith? While I accept the LoF as inspired, they are also early teachings in the Church. Joseph was taught line upon line, and advanced concepts came later - particularly in the Nauvoo era. Finally, you do realize that most of the Lectures of Faith were written by Sidney Rigdon, and not Joseph Smith? While I accept the LoF as inspired, they are also early teachings in the Church. Joseph was taught line upon line, and advanced concepts came later - particularly in the Nauvoo era. Why is it that you accept the Bible, Book of Mormon, Lectures on Faith and obviously the Articles of Faith (or some of them), but seem to give a pass on the D&C/Book of Commandments? Joseph taught that God also is an embodied Spirit. After all, what is more perfect, the Father as only a Spirit, or the Son who is an embodied Spirit? What are your views on the King Follett Discourse and Sermon in the Grove? What are your views on the temple and its work? Do you believe in baptism for the dead? Endowments? Sealings of families for eternity? I guess I would be the "founding Elder", but in reality am just an Elder and will take my place in the larger Elder's Council as one it gets established. I have no idea why... I am not worthy and have not asked for the calling, but like Amulek I have been called and must obey. I believe part of the reason is the Lord is leading us back to observance of His Feast and none sacrifice and ordinance laws, and as I have recognized the patterns, like Alma recognized the truth in Abinadi's words, I have been called to bring forth a portion of that work. I believe the authority is sufficient to perform proper baptism and the laying on of hands, I don't , however, believe that having said authority makes one impervious to teaching after their own thinking. So no, I don't feel I am being redundant. I have a very clear knowledge of who assembled the Lectures, and I believe it is the most accurate description of the Godhead. I believe that Masonic influences that came into the church may have had an affect on Joseph's teachings in this regard. Feel free to disagree. I don't feel I need to "get past it". The AofF says that one must be called by prophecy and the laying on of hands by those in authority. The one in authority is one who has already been called and ministered in that position. I received my Elders calling through proper lineage. I believe the keys of the priesthood (I prefer Holy Order) to administer the saving ordinances of the gospel referred to by Jesus in 3rd Nephi are on the earth and amoung many men in varying Restoration churches. I believe that once Joseph had the Urim & Thummim taken away and gave away the Seer Stone his revelations were subject to his understanding and the influence of those who surrounding him gaining influence in his life. The scriptures no where teach that God, the Father, is an embodied Spirit, so I feel safe in my belief on the subject. I feel the transcription of the King Follett discourse is dubious as Willard Richards is the main person to report such a teaching of the event, and Willard Richards hands (and hand writing) seem to be all oveearly church histories diaries etc.. with editorial changes. You are going to have to illuminate me on the "Sermon in the Grove" I do not believe those things are scriptural or came through the inspiration of God. To properly illuinate my views on the subject would be offensive and cause contention so I won't go into it further. __________________

Rameumpton has begun a dialogue with me in a topic in the Prop. 8 forum. I decided it would be better to move the discussion to a more appropriate area and within it's own topic. I am starting by posting his first major questioning post to me with my answer, and his follow up post to my answer to his first post...

Apparently I haven't made myself clear... The church in my signature is my church. Just as the LDS, RLDS, Temple Lot Church, etc... are different expressions of the church brought back to the earth in 1829, the Church of Christ (Bible & Book of Mormon) is another expression of that church and movement.

Are you talking to me? No, I am not am member of the LDS church either.

Jim Carter already did screw it up worse then Bush every could have done. So, yeah, it's possible. And seeing as how King Barak I is the most liberal President since Carter, it's probable.

No, I am not FLDS. The FLDS are a specific religious organization. Nor do I consider myself any type of "fundamentalist Mormon" as I disagree with many of their teachings. My avatar is stock photo of Amish-Mennonite girls, and I link the the FLDS ladies sites because they make good quality clothing and I support them in their fight against Texas CPS and their attempt to deny them of religious freedom and rip their families apart.

Book of Mormon says their was a Garden, a Flood, and an Exodus. Nuff said.

Irony: Eating ham to celebrate a Jewish Messiah

Okey dokey. Thanks for clearing that up.

No, I was stating what you might be thinking about me answering :) I also am a non-LDS Book of Mormon Believer.

I'm glad we have the Book of Mormon, which has no ambiguity about the resurrection. It's physical and everyone who has lived on this planet will be resurrected.

Yeah I know, "But this guy ain't LDS." I don't think the ESV should conflict at all. It's word-for-word and put together by conservative not liberal Christians. Any translation is going to have issues.

"Ever" is the key word. So I would say "Yes"

Cryptomundo The Mysterious Ainu

The prohibition against praying in public was against the practice of making long loud prayers so everybody can see how spiritual you are, not saying a quick prayer over meals within your group.

Christmas being removed from culture has little to do with a multi-cultural invasion, it is our own home grown liberals that are doing it... Check out government/military websites from Latin-American countries where they have Merry Christmas up top and prominent complete with manger scenes. It's not them, it's us.

I honestly don't understand what you mean by sources, I'm sorry. The group that put it together uses scripture as their source, and remember that what is on that page is just a glimpse of an apparently much longer study of the subject. It might be best to e-mail them directly, I just recently stumbled across the subject about a month ago and am still investigating and learning about it.

Looks like David Hyrum to me. (The one Emma was pregnant with when Joseph was murdered). David Hyrum Smith Photograph

Don't

Stand down, soldier. I deleted that post because I finally realized he was quoting, not talking in first person. I've made it abundantly clear I am no longer LDS. My posts are in no way deceptive, and I am merely sharing my experiences, plus there is a link in my signature that makes it fairly obvious I'm not LDS. I understand you hostility towards me and I forgive you, I only hope your can return forgiveness back to me at some point. (I unblocked you 3 days ago)

So you know I'm not blowing smoke... 4thcommandment

The question of the Sabbath say is not as easy as both Sunday and Saturday worshipers makes it out to be. In all likelihood it was a rotating Sabbath, meaning each year the Sabbath fell on a different day. This year it might be Sundays but next year it might be Thursdays. The Book of Mormon only says they choose one day during the week to assemble themselves together. It's open to interpretation.

Natural consequences can manifest themselves physically and economically. If God removes His blessing of protection from our country bad things will happen as a natural consequence.