KristofferUmfrey

.I fear your definition of priestcraft is rather broad my dear brother... There are plenty of good brethren outside of your church that preach in humility, don't ask for praise, don't seek filthy lucre and DO seek the welfare of Zion.

I know I will be paraphrasing so bear with me... The scriptures say that speaking against the Father and the Son can be forgiven. I believe the circumstance you describe would be denying the Son and can be forgiven. To me the denial of the Holy Ghost is to have her teach you something, so that you know the principle is true and then turn and fight against her teachings. If your earthly mother slaved to teach you and nurture in the right ways and as an adult you turned on her and spoke evil against her to try to turn your siblings and family against her, how would your father react if he was a righteous man? The OT ordered such adult children to be stoned, such was the seriousness of the offense.

Because I believe that the Holy Ghost is Heavenly Mother I don't believe she has governing power as the Father and the Son do by virtue of their priesthood. The role of the Holy Ghost is to gently teach and guide God's children to truth, which is very akin to the role a mother plays within the family structure. So I believe these verses exclude the Holy Ghost, for the reason that she doesn't hold governing power, not because she is not a personage. Many LDS say we don't know the name of Heavenly Mother because of how much the Father honors her and how offended He would be at Her name being blasphemed. Isn't it interesting that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost?

From lds.org : Your church absolutely teaches that those without the truth go to "Spirit Prison" or "Hell". Only LDS and non-accountable persons, according to your theology, go to Paradise.

This is what I have pointed out to LDS folks in the past... I have a hard time believing your average Christian has 'no part nor portion of the Spirit of God' has chosen wickedness because of not accepting the restored gospel, and is destined to be outside of Paradise.

For those not familiar with the Lectures on Faith, these are the passages I draw my beliefs from...

For those who actually wish to participate in a polite discussion, here is an article about the Holy Ghost-Heavenly Mother connection to ponder... Lion of God - David Bruce Clark

"49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." (Luke 9) The Book of Mormon is much more generous then the believers in it (in most of the churches) allow. It teaches that those who accept Jesus, repent, and are baptized are His church. It also teaches that anything that testifies of Jesus is of God. We each are in different stages of spiritual development and learning and the Lord is generous in allowing us to go through those stages and learn the lessons we need to learn. This fellow knew that Jesus was the Christ, the Savior, and in His name he could help others through ministry. So he set about doing what he was lead to do by the Spirit. I think the Apostles were jealous because you remember there was a time they tried to caste out demons and they couldn't do it even though they were Jesus' closest followers. The lesson we should take from it is, we can't judge the stage another is in, or the ministry that one feels lead by the Spirit to perform. Only God sees the beginning from the end, and all things will work together for His righteousness. If an average Christian minister leads an atheist to a belief in Jesus Christ isn't that something to rejoice over? Should we be mad because that atheist isn't really in "the true church"? Should we deny him that joy because he is still in his own stage of spiritual development and not where we see as ideal? I hope these thoughts have been somewhat profitable.

I"m THROUGH with this topic. I refuse to be treated as rubbish. Rameumpton is an appropriate name for you, sir.

I have spoken to NONE OF YOU in such a manner. This is truly offensive, I try to be cordial and THIS is the way I am treated??? I'm the bad guy because I can't rapid fire answers as quick as Rameumpton spits them out.

Let's do a reality check in this post also... You brought up the subject in a post way out in left field from the topic it was in.... The topic was about possibly boycotting No on 8 businesses and doing business with the Yes on 8 businesses being targeted by anti-8 folks. Your post came out of nowhere. But I was friendly and answered, so you could at least be polite enough to treat me with respect since YOU are the one who broached the subject. At least Old Tex brought up the Holy Ghost question in a topic someone made about the subject and hasn't peppered me with questions and then got mad at me for not answering one right away. You've asked me 33 questions and sub-questions, I think you could practice some patience in waiting for replies.

A "Monger" is someone who sells something. So a fear mongering is the selling of fear.

Questions asked to me thus far, just from Rameumpton... I count 33 questions and sub-question... So I hope you'll excuse me if my responses get delayed...

BTW, the times that I said "You are welcome to your opinion" are when I was answering Rameumpton's opinions of me personally, not any specific question concerning doctrine. Read the posts without your anti-apostate glasses on.

Oh, and how about this Rameumpton... Try asking me one question at a time instead of 15 in one post interlaced with insults. Could you do that for me? Thanks in Advance.

Ok, now I'm starting to get angry... Just because you don't like my answers doesn't mean I'm not answering. Show me the same respect I'm trying to show you.

1. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (100%) 2. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (95%) 3. Jehovah's Witness (95%) 4. Eastern Orthodox (92%) 5. Roman Catholic (92%) 6. Orthodox Judaism (89%) 7. Seventh Day Adventist (86%) 8. Baha'i Faith (79%) 9. Orthodox Quaker (78%) 10. Islam (77%) 11. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (73%) 12. Hinduism (70%) 13. Sikhism (66%) 14. Jainism (57%) 15. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (55%) 16. Liberal Quakers (49%) 17. Mahayana Buddhism (48%) 18. Theravada Buddhism (48%) 19. Reform Judaism (41%) 20. Unitarian Universalism (33%) 21. New Thought (29%) 22. Scientology (26%) 23. Neo-Pagan (24%) 24. Nontheist (18%) 25. New Age (16%) 26. Taoism (12%) 27. Secular Humanism (10%)

I honestly don't understand the aggression of the posts here. I have been trying to be polite, I had hoped I would receive it in return. I'm sorry I have not answered your questions in the time frame you see as best, but I don't have ready made apologetic pieces on the web I can cut and past. As for me posting my opinions, you have done just the same. Nephi's vision... You will notice in the first few verses he speaks of the Holy Ghost... When the actual vision starts you will notice that he speaks of "the Spirit of the Lord" appearing to him, not the Holy Ghost. I believe that the "Spirit of the Lord" is just that, the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ, not the Holy Ghost. You will notice that the Spirit of the Lord leaves just before Nephi sees in the vision of Mary and Jesus Christ and his guide through the vision at that point becomes an angel. *Nephi changes from speaking of the Holy Ghost to speaking of the Spirit of the Lord. *the Spirit of the Lord leaves just as he is about to witness the Savior in the vision and an angel becomes his guide. If it was the Holy Ghost that appeared to him, why would he not just continue on using the same verbage to describe his visitor that he had just used in the previous verses? Why does the Spirit of the Lord disappear at the point he is about to witness the Lord in vision? why does an angel become his guide at that point?

Dew is in a class all by its self, I agree with that.

I believe it... "When they are learned they think they are wise, and hearken not unto the commandments of God." Describes Dems perfectly.

When I was 9 I thought I liked Pepsi better, (slick advertising campaign) I decided to do a blind taste test (part of the ad campaign) to prove myself right. When the smoke settled and the dust cleared (a little redundancy for ya'll)... Coke came out the clear winner to my surprise.

I can be rather abrupt myself which caused me a 2 week hiatus earlier, so I am trying to be more friendly. But if you prefer I could answer your posts in default style and we can accomplish nothing but being mean to each other? I still am confused at what you want... Isn't a discussion an exchange of opinions and ideas? Like I said earlier I wasn't just saying "Thank you for your opinion." without a follow-up commentary of my own. I think you may be slightly blinded by your perception of me being an 'apostate'. I would be glad to answer your question on gathering... I absolutely agree that this dispensation is a time of gathering, as gathering is important in all dispensations. I believe, as Joseph Smith taught, that believers should be gathered to Zion (North America and Canada) as soon as they are able and we that are already here should assist them. I disagree with the current teaching of the LDS church that members should stay in their own lands. If you would like me to clarify what I believe, feel free to ask more directed questions.

wow, did you really take my post that way? I just thought it was odd that it seemed as though you were saying I was emphasizing it or that I brought it up. It's only mentioned once on the web page in the "Basic Beliefs" link, it's not like I've made it a central tenant of my teaching. Sorry if you thought I was offended, you can ask questions if you'd like. I wouldn't have made the topic if I didn't welcome discussion. :)

Portuguese is by far the prettiest language I have heard so far.

English and Castellano (Spanish)