KristofferUmfrey

I believe Joseph was a prophet as far as he obeyed and taught the things found in the Book of Mormon and Bible. I believe he saw God, whether it was the Father and the Son or just the Son I couldn't venture to guess. I believe the rights and privileges of the priesthood were restored in 1829 and that a church was organized by those men who initially received it. I believe that church is in a scattered position at the present, with men able to baptize and lay on hands found in several of the different Book of Mormon believing churches. I believe that soon the Lord will set the church in order and we will be gathered to build New Jerusalem and go out in full power in the era known as "The Work of the Father." I don't reject the church, I do reject however, what I believe to be unscriptural doctrines found in the various scattered branches of the church and trust in God to correct those things when He brings the church back into order.

I think being offended over something that wasn't meant to offend is worse then the unintended offense. In other words..... lighten up!

Doesn't really change my view much. Like I said the verses are vague enough, "obtained heaven" could just mean worthy enough for exaltation, but I'm open to the idea. Kinda off topic... "sought for the city of Enoch"? Interesting phrase, it like after the were translated, if indeed they were, they began some journey to find Enoch's city, like it's somewhere off in space that it needs to be searched for. Yeah, I pick up on weird things sometimes.

And you are within your rights to believe all that.

You posted this while I was writing my response to the other post, give me a chance to read it.

I apologize Hemi, I fail to see where the verses declare that Salem was translated. Perhaps "obtained heaven" or "sought for the city of Enoch", but even those verses are vague enough to cast some doubt onto the theory. Did Joseph Smith ever declare that Salem was translated?

I am happy you feel that way. Keep being the best Mormon you know how.

"Reading it" as in intending to? Because (not to be rude) believing the Book of Mormon may offer "secular or philosophical insight", shows me you have not read it yet. When you do I believe you may be greatly surprised that it is much different then you believe or have been taught. Here's a non-denominational Book of Mormon believing site for you to ponder also: http://www.bomchristian.com

That's fine, you can believe what you like about me. I know and the Lord knows how much study and prayer I have put into finding truth. As I stated this topic really wasn't necessary and instead of continuing to insult each other back and forth I have decided to drop it. But by all means if you and Elphaba want to continue, go right ahead.

Hemi- Could you please provide the verses that show the city was translated? Thanks in advance.

Well, Mr. Armstrong is dead, so no. But I do believe he was inspired in some of his teachings. I believe we each have individual spirits, and that the Holy Spirit unites all covenant believers with the Spirit of God and Jesus Christ (Lectures on Faith)

I believe that trying to bring God down to our position is also dangerous. I don't believe in some mystical "something but nothing" "here but not" being, but I also do not believe in a "once mortal" "progressed to His position" God either. I believe God has always been God and we were created in His image spirit and body, but that we can never become what He is. He is IT the ultimate, there never has been and never will be one like Him.

I admit, I shouldn't have opened this topic. As I stated in my "A Bit Overbearing" topic, I apologize, and will tone it down, and will try to focus on doctrinal disagreements using the Bible and Book of Mormon as my guide. If Pam wants to shut the topic down, she can have at it.

I understand that, which is why I offered up an apology and a pledge to tone it down. I admit I used inflammatory language and will try to better monitor myself in future posts. I tend to write whatever comes into my brain, it's probably an outlet because I'm probably too polite in general conversation.

I can agree with at least one thing a-train said... Read the Book of Mormon! When you know it's true, then we can discuss where to go from there. There are plenty of options to explore for a Book of Mormon Believer.

I think this from the Philadelphia Church of God best expresses my ideas on the subject (although I may not agree with all their teachings...) Literature | theTrumpet.com

Understood. Please understand that questioning the current or past beliefs of your church isn't necessarily attacking those things, and telling someone (not saying you do) that the reason they question is because they have some secret sin they don't want to repent of, or that they haven't studied or prayed enough can tend to be offensive also.

Does it include kerosene and matches?

I believe we will become perfected in our capacities but we will never become a God, because there is only one. We will assist Him in His work, but we will never be what God is. Instead of responding to the other post in another post I will respond to you other post to me here... Yes, He is Lord over those set up as lords and King over all who would be called kings. Now I DO believe we will be Lords and Kings in the Kingdom of God (it is called a Kingdom for a reason) as the NT teaches. But that will in no way make us what God is.

The people or objects people set up as gods. The is no God but our God, and Jesus is His Son.

I agree there were no fence sitters, just folks who didn't help out much.

You mean I can't have my pie and eat it to? Ok, you have a point... The arguments against the Book of Mormon being weakened everyday. Hallelujah!

I can be brash, rude, blunt, upfront, obnoxious, and kind of a jerk sometimes. I do apologize. I'll try to tone it down a bit and calmly explain what I believe and why I believe it from the Bible and Book of Mormon from now on.

Speculation. It cannot be proven one way or the other, the fact is this establishes Hebrew blood amoung Native Americans. Whether before or after Europeans landed, one can only guess.

The sources are included with the quotes.