Lyle

[quote name= And of course, should God choose to use me as a tool to bring someone else to Christ, well—how could I refuse? --Erik It is truly a shame that you would call us LDS Christian in one moment and then say that you would bring us to Christ. Please be more considerate...

Look at the general authorities they are all very very successful men in life. these men are very well to do because of their own business ventures. their educational back grounds have gotten them. there have been very few if any poor and/ or uneducated general authorities in the last thirty probably 60 years. they have never been bought houses or cars or anything of the like. the church does not pay them for publishing books there are separate entities that do that such as deseret book. the church owned companies were started by members who dedicated their businesses to the church and/ or donated them. tithing does not and has not been used for starting any business and will be blasphemous if they do. Joseph smith and several others in his time tried to start a bank and did start one but all of the funds came from third party members(ie loans were taken out by people with the state)and none came from the tithing funds.

you know i hear that some people think cock roaches are good for people nutritionally..... but i keep coming back to the fact that they can live on a diet of dry-wall. i dont have the luxurie of eating healthy. my body can no longer put away many fat reserves and i am allergic to many foods since last february. i used to eat a steady diet of very tasty and some what healthy foods. but now my diet is stricktly rice, soy and meat products. when i shop for gorceries it takes quite a long time because i have to know things about how they process the foods and where they are processed so that i do not become ill from eatting. i lost the desire to eat when this started. i no longer get hungry but i can tell when i need to eat. eating is essencial to a sober mind and now i can recognize that more than ever before. oh and by the way , i have met people who wont eat certain things because of what people tell them...... i warn you kind of people that you are depriving yourselves of something i loved so much and think is such a wonder that we in this nation have so much of it.... i call it flavor.... rice and chicken... have none. you knoow why everything tastes kinda like chicken because thats the basis for all flavors in my oppinion. there is no flavor to rice just salt or parsley. i am not bitter i enjoy that the lord chose me to experience this. i am a good cook now my skills go to cooking more for other people than they ever did before and i get to learn how to cook interesting things for myself as well

Wow there is a lot of core material here when i read the part about the letter i also remembered why my mom cant attent church any more because of another letter that was put out about wereing perfumes and cologns to the chapel , my mom has a severe sensitivity as many elderly people are developing.... back to the topic on hand i have always believed that some peoples testimonies are ment to be silent and sustain the spirit in the room during the testimony meeting by not letting those whose misuse of the pulpit offend the spirit remove the spirit from the room. i have seen a bishop or stake president get up at the end of a meeting and correct some of the things said. which means that occationally the spirit and the congregation have been so offended that someone had to do something i think that testimony meeting is great in some wards and very sad in others. i went to one ward when the pulpit was open to bear testimonies the entire congregation got up. my testimony was weak so i sat and basked in the wealth of love and great testimonies. the meeting ended nearly an hour after it was supposed to and the bishop and other members of council each had to get up and comment on the spirit the bishop said he couldnt bear to stop the meeting .... i had never seen such a thing all growing up i had been in wards were there was long silent moments between speakers. all of the testimonies there were simple doctrinal beliefs.... by contrast there are times when i have sat and couldnt hear the words of those speaking over the loud and confessing words of my own testimony confessing to myself. since i have recovered from my near mortal experience i cant hardly sit in my seat for ten minuets of the sacrament meeting without thanking the lord for his love in my life for the power of repentance and the calling of such great people to share in the gospel with.

tithing slip bi annually funds and spending is reported at conferences which every member is expected to attend. they are then published in the following monthly publication the ensign. there have been no major misappropriation of church gathered funds ever. i think CNN or it was mike walace who reported on this once because they were quite shocked about the fact such a religion could gather tithes from 10 percent of their members annual incomes and spend it on building chapels temples and meeting houses only. all other funds are from generous donations and from business ventures. senior members are held strictly accountable for the funds that are spent and do not go out and buy boats cars yachts or anything other than travel expenses and and the like. feel free to look into it and not believe me. bishops and stake presidents don't get paid neither do the teachers or leaders of the quorums....please dont take our word for it.

wow lots of very interesting point-of-views. i completely agree that reasoning is great but limited by our other facilities. that whole jewish mistic thing ....very interesting... never heard of such a thing. thank you all. oh and by the way i would never throw out reason for anything. everything i do every job every task every thought is wrapped tightly around reasoning having motion keep in check my reasoning. i am an emergency medical technician . i work for the national youth football league. and i have been trained to treat children in injuries but the extent of recognizing injury/ or the like throughout all my training was little many books simply say that children show no signs of failior of their body symptoms because the child body compensates like no adults is capible. that being true doesnt help any. children do show signs their very subtle signs and after witnessing them i have a changed point of view but many times i have to go on a gut feeling children are very dramatic when their hurt. they either pretend like nothing is wrong or like the world has stopped and their wont be cartoons when the sun rises tomorrow. but my gut deceifers that and my logic cares for any wounds

thank you i really enjoy this comment a lot. i didnt get my patriarchal blessing until i was twenty four. i didnt know i could i had been told i shouldnt get it till i am going on a mission and by the time the presssure came to go on a mission i had fallen away i hadnt found my testimony yet. i am a huge music fan i used to be a big rocker. but i played in an orchestra. when i found my testimony i found that the hymns bring the spirit very quickly are calming and are as the lord says "a prayer unto" Him. i leanred to play them and sing them more than the other music. definately helped in bringing the spirit. and justice ...that whole having a kid thing seems easy enough....but heres my problem when i get married this year my wife already has two kids i have to be the father figure to them first.... that makes me very nervice but i know the lord is qualifying me

so I have a question. i feel like living the gospel principals is much like climbing a rope, which for me is not imposible or hard, but takes lots of effort and requires much care. i see the iron rod like this vertical rope going to heaven. that i must pray and study each morning and in the evening or else my grip will slip, my hands trying to stop my backslidding are worn and hard from the previous times and still i cannot see any reason to give up and just fall. i feel like with good company climbing their own way up around me is comforting. that at times my progress is not happening that i must take a break to gather my strength to go on at times. Does anybody else feel like their bleeding, scarred hands, weakening sore arms are any reason not to continue climbing especially when it has brought you from such a terrible place? What motivates you to keep going on? i know why i do, but what makes you want to keep going?

HI welcome

welcome to this place its quite entertaining and seems worthy to me. thank you for sharing your testimony with me.

Hello Nice to meet you

i believe that their are things in this world that are of no consequence except that they are waists of our time they do not do evil or good. i also believe that a man who is doing good is not sinning but if he can do more good then he certainly should simply because he will reap more from what he sows. who doesn't want blessings? many a prophet has said that something to the extent that there will never come a time as a faithful Latter Day Saint that your curiosity will cease and you will have learned all that there is to learn in this life that your day of rest will come in mortality.

Heres my question to you how can you logically reason that any Love is right or wrong? what reasoning can explain what a Dream is or the reason for it? or why does psychology work for some people and not for others? its not possible to reason that god exists or not. can reason prove anything that we cannot see? other than mathematics....which is only most accurate on paper. so here is my delema... and i am a scientifically minded man. President Eyring, also a scientifically minded man discusses some things about rationality he says that it is important to know that satan wants us to yield to "Rules of Rationality". i quote from his book to draw closer to god page 115 "...there are voices competing for our belief. they claim authority of truth. Some of those voices--some of the loudest--tell you that the questions which matter will yield to reason. And they even warn you that those who purport to answer questions without using their rules of rational analysis are to be distrusted and even despised. ...some are clearly lying some are not...We need to know. And we need to be sure." so what makes rationality worthy? what makes it true if its like the tongue or the poisonous fountain?

I hate to disagree and i hope you bear with me for doing so, you are part right, “But behold, I say unto you that little children are redeemed from the foundation of the world through mine Only Begotten; Wherefore they cannot sin, for power is not given unto Satan to tempt little children, until they begin to become accountable before me; For it is given unto them even as I will, according to mine own pleasure, that great things may be required at the hand of their fathers.”(D&C 29:46-48) I had a vision regarding this; you are absolutely right one night just after my initial recovery from an illness this last year i went to bed and the moment i put my head on the pillow i woke up. i sprang to a sitting position. i was laying in my dads bed alone at his house. i was immediately was well freaked out. i stared out the window wondering why the Lord had done this to me. i questioned Why would you have shown me what i was going to do for the next 15 years? i was a boy ho knew exactly every detail of his life for the next 15 years because i had experienced it. this was no dream either, i swear that if time travel could be "RATIONALIZED" i might possible believe in it. i woke up and prayed and prayed then i showered i went in to my dads kitchen to get breakfast. my mind was buzzing with the things of science camp giant bugs scorpions and bats, i got breakfast, then, it hit me! while my brothers were all watching TV! i only committed the sins i had committed because i allowed a chain of small things turn into something very heavy much like Charles Dicken's tale of Marley. i saw every little detail from the cartons i allowed myself to watch the music i listened to , the language i tolerated and the company i kept. all these little tiny details were little tiny acceptable links in the chain i carried around and the huge mistakes i made were because of the unrecognizable small ones i bore silently and unknowingly until it was so heavy and the the sin so bad i could tolerate no more. i continued through the day but i chose not to watch the TV shows, i sat in the room i enjoyed the company of my brother a children watching my dad cook for me hearing him speak in fatherly ways. my dad pulled me aside because the day before i had hit my brother and fought with him. he said to me that my influence affects all those around me and that influence that others see they also carry and others see that and are influenced by that. i went through the entire day admiring and enjoying the day as a child. i had the most marvelous day i could imagine. that night i laid on my poor little bed at my moms house looked up at the stars and thanked the lord for showing me everything that i could do wrong if i stayed on the same path, i thanked him because now i was going to be absolutely perfect the best i possible could i couldn't wait to impress Him. i looked out at the stars till i could no longer stay awake then i fell to sleep so gently on the pillow and the moment i was asleep i woke up in my bed confused and worried.... why would the Lord convince me that i was going to be OK why would he let me think that i could choose to be perfect? why did he get me excited about being a child, because he wanted me to know that i am. and can be. the man i was before this event was not the same man after. one night i did not sleep. one night of my life i was a man no different from any other man when i went to bed i woke up and was a child but knew life as a man knows life. i did not sleep like i had every day before and everyday after. I did not live my life the way i did before this happened to me, i listened to the radio differently i couldn't stand much tv anymore let alone the same and even some of my favorite company, language literature and media. i saw the influences of God being only a few things and his whisperings being hard to recognize between the bright flashing billboards and barring words of politicians. god whispered and i could hear it. his small works i could see. i soon learned that satan did not know what i was thinking, he certainly could tell by my body language and sources of the like "REASONING" that i was interested or that the things he tempted with got to me but i also saw that the lord was there influencing me too. neither of these two were raging in my head and i had a choice to listen to or to be interested in either of their messages. for the first time in my life i felt s though i took responsibility for every thought i entertained every notion in my head and every temptation that came my way. Wouldnt it be something spectacular if we all carried honest truthful and loving happy influences where ever we go?

Ah when to the heart of man Was it ever less than a treason To go with the drift of things To yield with a grace to reason And bow and accept at the end Of a love or a season. -Robert Lee Frost Some reason that God does not exist. Some through this same reason prove that their gods are the creators of nature. those who reason, reason that god is and always was because... James ch3 " 1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body. 3 Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body. 4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth. 5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell. 7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind: 8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?" So what kind of reasoning do you guys trust? what do you think of these things? i believe in Love but there is no reasoning that can clearly justify this who can explain. John Grey, a world reknown psychologist says that men do not know what they are feeling when they are thinking" science confirms that it may not be possible for a mans brain to connect to his feeling part of the brain while thinking logically and vica versa... does that make men think clearer than women? or does that make women think more justified then men? so i thought i'd throw this curve ball out there and see what kind of doctrinal support or antitheses can be found as well as opinions on the this.. thanks