Setheus

...also I believe this board is a spectator sport so I will try and stay away from large or uncommon words. I feel no need to show off and I want everyone to feel included in our bout.

well most who are in the wrong often think those that are in the right are "ganging up" on them.

LOL now its Snow 2 Deb 0.

Remember that scene from Star Wars where Jaba picked that little alien thing up and ate it? Deb trying to out wit Snow makes me think of that scene.

you want to know the truth? Ask and ye shall recieve.

Sure you could tell. If someone did what you describe you could tell by the un-natural markings left behind. If someone dug it up there would be tale tale signs on the roots of near by trees and the soil would be less packed than the surrounding soil. Also there would be clear drag marks or tracks from where the tree was moved. The smell of carbon monoxcide would be in the air from the heavy equipment needed for such a task. Also if the tree DID fall there, the other near by trees would have broken branches and parts of the fallen tree in their branches. (good sign if the trees are different species). The list is endless

I find that songs that are "to God" rather than "about God" are best of all. Most of the "christian" rock songs that try and describe how "awsome" and how much God "rocks" are lame and cheesy. But the ones that are directed towards God seem more sincere and often have good lyrics. There are always exceptions to this rule though. And about Metallica....YES THEY ARE THE GREATEST ROCK BAND IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC> All of the band members will get into heaven! B)

its just like a stupid red neck to think we're over here "kicking some arab butt" for sh*Ts and giggles. You're "dad-in-law" must be so proud

Scott Peterson was just convicted of 2nd degree murder of his UNBORN son. Now how can that be when Dr's do essentally the same thing? Curious.

You don't know our church doctrines very well, do you? Yes I do. After all, if I'm going to follow something I'd better know what its about haddnt I? Oh, and I've already cleared up your misunderstanding of that quote so you must be dragging it up again to avoid the fact that what I say makes sence. Here I'll post it again for you. "EXACTLEY MY POINT! Since we are members AS SOON AS we are baptized then we are "fully human" as soon as we are created (sperm meets egg). My point was we don't become "fully human" only once we're out of the womb just like we don't become "fully members" only once we've recieved a calling or made it to the elders quarim."

"The real question today is not when human life begins, but, 'What is the value of human life?' The abortionist who reassembles the arms and legs of a tiny baby to make sure all its parts have been torn from its mother's body can hardly doubt whether it is a human being." President Ronald Reagan, (1983).

What on earth are you talking about? Your posts make absolutely no sense. We "join the church" when we are baptized. EXACTLEY MY POINT! Since we are members AS SOON AS we are baptized then we are "fully human" as soon as we are created (sperm meets egg). My point was we don't become "fully human" only once we're out of the womb just like we don't become "fully members" only once we've recieved a calling or made it to the elders quarim. My posts make complete sence. Perhaps you need to align your frontal lobes?

Even moss and algie and primitive bacteria are "alive". So how much more so is a human zygoat alive! We don't "join the church" once we have reached the "stage" of decon or teacher. So why would we "enter our body" only after reaching a certain "stage" of development? Hey Ray, you can't be a "full member" of the church until you become at least a priest but would prefer you be an elder.

What insult? Asking you if you are a teenager? I was completely sincere. I think I initially had you confused with another poster because your posts suddenly seem extremely immature. I was going to cut you some slack if you are a teenager because I know that young people have very limited experience to draw on. Now come on curvette, ma cherie. How many times have I mentioned life experience that if I were a teen I must be 18 or 19 minimum. I've mentioned combat experience, I have a child, etc. And the past few posts I have made were direct quotes from the TEXAS Penal Code. How is that immature?

Now why would you start with the insults? That is a sign of weakness and uncertanty. My point about the savior showing himself to Nephi (please give me the exact verse or at least chapter) was that Christ could show himself and at the same time be in his physical body. After all with God all things are possible. Here is why I think the punishment was so mild for killing an unborn child compared to killing the wife. The level of medical understanding at that time was such that they didn't even know that sperm cells had a tail. So why would they know about gestation and zygoats and in utero heart surgery etc. After all why do you think God had the hebrews wash their hands before they could eat the manna from heaven? Because it "clensed" their spirits somehow? Not at all. Washing your hands is a great way to prevent sickness and if you're gonna wonder the wilderness for 40 years it might be a good idea to try and stay healthy. The men of that time had no idea about germs etc so they did not consider that as a core motive to their instructions to wash before eating. How could they have known that dirt was full of living things? I am rambling so I will stop now.

(1)So "In the beginning" was not God's creation, just the "beginning"? Come on the first inch of a mile is still part of that mile. If you don't think an embryo is "fully human" because its not as developed as a born baby then we might as well count children that have not completed puberty as "not fully human either. (2)I did add rape to the equasion and I did not say I agreed with the abortion but that I could understand without malice towards a woman who got an abortion after being raped. After all if she were forced to give birth who is to say she wouln't kill it anyway? Or just throw it away in a dumpster. (It happens) (3)About Jesus' visit the night before he was born. Please ref that verse I've never seen it. (or at least do not remember it) But, even if he did show himself he also rose from the dead and walked on water. So who is to say he couldn't show himself and his spirit be in his physical body? What you are suggesting is that a thing can be "alive" and not possess a soul. That is what we call a zombie my dear. So you must believe that women are pregnant with zombies for 9 months and then as they exit the woman they transform into magical beings called Humans. (4)About John "jumping" inside his mother's womb, that was out of love and joy of the savior. Its not talking about him "entering" or "jumping INTO" his mother's womb. (common sense will tell you that)

No and here is why. Once a baby reaches 8lbs, the mother has ALREADY made her choice. And no "already born" baby has ever caused medical complications wich resulted in the death of the mother.

Yes, and if you'll scroll back I already made that clear my preseptive friend.

Exactly! Bush could be an egotistical self-worshiping man who thought he himself was the only one with the ability to rule the nation without any guidence from God or otherwise.

another thought I just had. If a embryo or fetus can be classified as "not fully human" up until some magical unknown point in its development does the same hold true to those of us born? Is there a point in our spiritual growth that if we do not make it to we can be "aborted" by the plan of salvation? When are we "fully children of God?" was it when we were first created or did it take a while in the pre-mortal existence to quallify as "fully children of God"? And if the gospel is true then we had to accept the plan of salvation in order to come to this earth. So when a woman becomes pregnant there is a clear reason why. To bring a HUMAN into the world. Are you pregnant? Its a baby!

Here is one to boggle your mind for those of you that still don't see an embryo/fetus as "fully" human. Here in TX (and perhaps other states) when male pigs and cattle are old enough to be shipped off for slaughter they are all casturated. Only those few selected for breeding purposes remain furtil and MUST not be sent to slaughter. Why? Because it is AGAINST THE LAW to slaughter pregnant livestock. Why? Good Question. Why? Why do cow and pig and horse embryos have laws protecting them against death but for humans there is no law to protect the embryo/fetus? Note: there is NO stipulation as to how far along in pregnancy the livestock must be before it is illegal to slaughter. The law says "pregnant" period. Where are our priorities?

You are joking, right? I'd be astonished to find any human population that ever thought otherwise. Satire and Sarcasim are not your strong points are they my little curvette cutsie pootsie

Why? Because that would put you 1st on the list to go. LOL

Well put.

Whats wrong with the left? B)