StrawberryFields

Really?I read this before I went off to work and now I have returned I still feel that I should respond to this comment. I am very bothered by the term "brain dead" maybe because I have a child with a traumatic brain injury. Now to the comment... Isn't her spirit still with her body? If her spirit is with her body then she would know that she was being starved right?

Good question!Our bishop who has had a mustache ever since I met him 9 years ago recently shaved his off! He looks really strange and we joked that he was trying to get into the stake presidency. My FIL has never much like my husband to have facial hair and I believe that it is his opinion that men who do are breaking some sort of code. This past month my husband has been sporting a very short beard and yesterday he was being ribbed about it. I would also like to know if there is something that has recently come up concerning this. Trapper, what state do you live in and what does your facial hair consist of? Who was it that advised you to shave and how was that delivered to you?

Very Good argument PD.I can't imagine allowing my child starve to death. You wrote "If imperfections in the law stand in the way, the law should be changed in every legitimate way to eliminate the imperfection." I hate to say this but the law does not currently allows and other means of helping a loved one back home other then with drawing of means of support IE "life support". Starving is not an option for these parents so what are the options? I don't see any for them but to continue to fight for her not to be starved to death. Stepping back for the logistics side to the spiritual side of this I would have to suffer it over to my Father In Heaven. It would be beyond my ability to allow anything but the Lords intervention.

Yesterday was the two year mark on the loss of my mom due to cancer. I went to a grief support website which is wonderful, and found this link about Easter. http://wandascountryhomeinspirational.com/pinetrees/

This is just a sickening mess. How many times will they do this to her? http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=6&sid=157036

Amillia, I'm sorry, but I had to quit reading your post after this entry. This was almost enough to terrify me from ever using deodorant again. I can just imagine what the rest would have said. The thing that is interesting about this one is that I heard a long time ago, that the talc in deoderants caused alheimers because it was made from the same stuff as aluminum and aluminum was suspect of causing it. So, do you still use it or can't you remember?

I agree with this statement. I can't imagine being either the husband or the parents of Terri.I can not blame the husband for moving on after so many years. Can he prove that having her die by withdrawing the feeding tube is fulfilling her wishes? Why would he refuse to allow an MRI done of Terri's brain? As far as the parents are concerned I can feel for them as well. Over the past 8 months I have learned more then I would ever care to know about brain damage. I have seen first hand the miracles and healing that the brain can do. On the other hand, I don't know how I would feel seeing my own child so unresponsive year after year after year. Letting your child starve to death would not be a good option either. As parents we are responsible to provide our children with food, shelter and clothing how can parents starve their children? This case has a no possible win outcome.

Amillia,I'm sorry, but I had to quit reading your post after this entry. This was almost enough to terrify me from ever using deodorant again. I can just imagine what the rest would have said.

Lindy and I are good friends STILL. She was luckier then I was and she knows how I was affected... I also tend to go with the "underdog" but intent should go into the mix. That is why I want to know his intent before placing my vote. I don't believe that Bat is as anti as he leads us to believe at times. He is really a kind person with a good heart and that is what I appreciate about him. I believe that John Doe was pretty accurate in his analysis about why Bat likes to post here. ¡ÈBat posted for no other reason than to see how vulgar and shocking he could be allowed to be. I don't think he honestly believed the tripe he tossed out here; he threw it out just to get a reaction. I say no. He's already proven he is unwilling to change to conform to board rules, what makes anyone think he will abide by them if we ask him nicely to come back." Should he be allowed to come back to LDSTalk to reek havoc and make it a chore for the moderators? Yes, Bat can be very entertaining when he wants to be, and I still luv him despite of the bad boy he can be at times.

I Luv Bat. I have even been called a member of his posse here on LDSTalk and that's even okay by me. :) I have posed this question before to him without a reply..."Why does he want to be a member here when he clearly doesn't respect our beliefs?" Bat has a multitude of knowledge about the LDS Faith but he spends much of his time telling us why it is wrong. Sure, there are many here who are rock solid in their faith and Bat's antics won't shake them. On the other hand, there are many who come here for information about the church who may never post. The home page has this... "Welcome to LDS Talk, the web site dedicated to bringing you LDS Communication and News in an effort to unite Latter-day Saints from all over the world." I don¡Çt believe that it is right to have people join this website on this pretense and then subject them to anti Mormon material. There are plenty of anti Mormon sites and if people want to join them then they are doing so with that knowledge. The rules have been enforced and rule breakers have been punished. Here is what this page has at the top..." Any post which contains profanity, obscenities, or anything which would be found offensive to the majority of those who are LDS members will result in the post being removed, and the poster being banned from the site. There is a zero tolerance policy in place for those who choose to break those guidelines." I have not yet voted because I want to know "Why Bat would want to belong to a website which has these rules?"

Did not Christ show compassion to others? Are we not to bare one another¡Çs burdens?USN, if I remember right you have had a VERY difficult time as you have watched your own friends struggle. Do you have only enough love and compassion to go around to those you know?

When you say "bull crud" do you believe the new way to be better or worse then the old way of discipline?To me the old way was...You do something wrong and the parents will punish you. The new way is...You do something wrong and you punish yourself IF the parents will follow through with it and natural consequences follow.

DID NOT! Yeah, in those particular words you quoted from my post, I can see where you might misinterprut my position.

WHERE does it imply this?Cal, you misinterpreted my post and nothing could be further from the truth. What I DID say was that as corporal punishment became frowned upon by the vast majority of the people, parents were not being trained in other methods of discipline that worked. Children grew to have more rights then parents as the Child Abuse Phenomenon became in Vogue. Sure, there are real cases of child abuse and I don't condone an adult beating up on a child or visa-versa. I am a believer that there are better ways of teaching children while also empowering them with their own natural consequences. Now tell me just where you got the information that I was pro-spanking?

USN, You really can't mean what you are saying here. Compassion for our fellow human beings are natural. ALso, who knows whether they will see this. WE saw their website. As far as being 'prudes' ~ that is a joke. But of course hopefully you will change your thoughts with maturity. There is nothing worse than losing a child, whether it is one of your own or someone elses. My heart goes out for this family, not only the parents but the grandparents, aunts, uncle's nieces, nephews, cousins and for the little one that will never ever grow up to be a parent. One that will never live life to the fullest. Marsha Great Post Marsha and I have missed you being here. :) I can only imagine what this family might be going through I do know that having the ability to make a change for the sake of others is a healthy thing to do for this family. We have a similar goal with the accident that happened to Nick. We would like to see it mandated by law that those who work on tire changing machines receive formal training or better yet certification. It's a terrible feeling to feel helpless and I pray that this family will be successful and find the peace they desire. If you make a trip to their web site sign their guestbook. We have had many people that we don't know sign our guestbook on Nicks website and it truly makes a difference to feel the support from others. If you don¡Çt want to use your entire name you can use your first, screen name or initials.

What do you have against Disruptive?

That sounds very interesting. What a great way to bring the members of your church closer together and to build unity. :)

I think so too.

Faerie,Is it the above quote which concerns you?

USN, with out a good foundation your building will crumble. So therefore, your wife will be your supporter.I was one of those women who tended to the home and children and once the children became more independent I lost my identity. Don't place restrictions on your wife to be because if you have an unhappy wife you will have an unhappy life. I am happy to hear you say this "Im not so much saying that women are lessor, but that they have their place and the men have theirs." That is how a Partnership works. I think that you might consider someone who is more than you are because she will share. :)

Jenda,I think that we both might have a similar problem here with me being several hard years ahead of you because my children are older. My husband had a childhood where he didn't have very much in the way of material possessions and I on the other had had quite a bit. His father is not the most positive person in the world and I believe that he did not practice what he preached when it comes to raising children. When my children where young he would always say to use that "You can never give your children too much love". He would often tell us this after I had disciplined one of the kids. I believe that my husband took these words to mean give your children everything. After three children I felt that I still wanted more but my husband said no. He said that he wanted to provide them with many of the things that he didn't have as a child. My ideal was not placed in the material possessions...it is placed in the dynamics of the family. My husband has worked very hard providing our family every worldly possession. I believe that all of these things he has worked towards are just surface things. When the kids really have a problem they come to me because I am solid and they know where I stand on issues. My husband has practiced the parenting skill of do nothing until it is really bad and then makes unrealistic threats that everyone knows he will never see through to the end. Many times I have wanted to throw in the towel and give up because it is just too hard to fight this kind of battle. The reality is that we can't because the stakes are too high with our children. I have even begged him to take just one aspect of parenting such as curfew. This worked for about two months and then he just refused to stay up and wait for them. I have even considered forcing him to step up the plate from my default but he was just oblivious to the problem. Now my oldest is married and he still shows very little respect for things that are important to me. He and his wife came for dinner awhile back and just as I had brought the last thing to the table he farted. This is something he used to do before he was married and I would ask him to leave the room and my husband would just grin and shake his head. This time I told him that it would be a long time before I invited him back to dinner at my house. ERRRR I can now also see my influence in his life as he prepares to buy his first house and he will call me for advice. When he began making money he asked me many things about managing it and he also learned from me to shop for bargains which have been a passion of mine. Yes being liked and "worshipped" by his children has been a quest of my husbands that he has accomplished. Having my children grow up as responsible, community serving adults is something I am still working on. Going to parent teachers conferences and hearing that our child doesn¡Çt turn in assignments and something that I won't do alone. I insist that he go with me on because she isn't made to do much at home either. BTW, When one of our children disrespects their father and I hear it I still correct them. When they do the same to me when he is around he just sits there oblivious to what just occurred. They are getting older now, and they know what is happening, I wonder how long they will continue to really think that their father is swell.

Do not concur. It's not the children. It's the parents. As you rear, so shall you reap. Snow, I agree with you to a point that if the parents don't create a respectful environment the child will walk all over them. The "Child Abuse Platform" has many children feeling that they are entitled to be treated without any discipline. As I look at my kids who are really pretty good kids I remember them using this as a guilt ploy with me when I would take away a privilege. Right behind the guilt trip would be their father telling me to "relax" or to "back off" that I was wrong. Then I look at parents who really have problems who children are involved in crimes or gang activity. What went wrong there?

I also enjoy watching Nanny 911 and Super Nanny especially with my husband. It illustrates some techniques that I tried when my children were young. I set limits and enforced rules consistently. Yes, I agree that children are very intuitive and they pick up on it when one parent does not support (respect) the other parents rules. They quickly learn how to "work" the system which is broken.

Many women have become smarter and don't allow themselves to be treated or referred to as a "lesser"USN, do you really believe that when you get married, that you will want to marry someone who is less than you are?

What has happened to children these days where there is such a lack of respect for any authority or any one else¡Çs property? Cal started a thread that questions a parent¡Çs option to discipline their child with a spanking. I remember being spanked a few times as a child and I remember it quite clearly. It was something I would want to avoid happening again so I toed the mark for the most part. Then Dr Spock came out with his book stating how wrong it was and the trend started to go towards the "time out" phase which we used mostly in raising our children. Now many kids live in the land of "I want and I will get" and they usually do. We are now trying to undo some of the damage we did to our children from sparing the rod and spoiling the child. Of course we will not to spanking our 20, 18, and 15 year old children but we will be expecting more from them. Gone are the days when they can abuse our things without a price. After replacing several transmissions in vehicles that we own, and let our children use, or more stupidly abuse we will do it no more. I believe that there is a fine line in raising children who are never punished and grow up to feel entitled to have it all and those who are disciplined to learn to work and become self sufficient. I believe that with the taking away of spanking parents in some respects lost their ability to punish and teach there children through discipline. Most children get away with so much more then we did as a children and they lack respect for authority. Parents have lost so many rights and I believe that it is reflected in our society.