aj4u

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if everyone gives 10% of their total income off the top that that organization will prosper. Any organization would posper and even become down right powerful. That is not a revelation.In a way, we are paying our tithe to the government in the form of taxes. Look how powerful our government is! By the way, power and prosperity does not equal a right standing with God.

I haven't been on this forum for every long, but I must say you are the first on it to tell me to pray about it. Good, I wouldn't let it get that far into a bash. What is the point really? A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still. Reasonable adult like is what I was hoping for. God said, "Come and let us reason together though your sins be as red as scarlet, I will make them white and snow."Personally, I thought you were ending the conversation because you mind was made up about me and how these discussions end up. Is that a fact? I will have to go back and look. I don't remember.Do you understand that I have been tithing for a long time, and I used to think that other believers that stop doing it because it was an OT thing that really is not even clearly defined were out of it. Quess what, they were out of it for other reasons. Just cause someone is nuts or out of it doesn't mean they are wrong. I go to a church where 98.5 % of the people if not more believe in tithing. I am not going to try to stop them or you. I give. I just don't call it tithe. I don't judge you for tithing either. I guess I really don't see anything wrong with it per se. I just believe from a Biblical stance that putting our faith in any of our works for God in our own strength is dangerous, and I am not sure whether you agree or disagree with that.

yes

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, "This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." If we do this we are doing the work of God and instead of us doing dead works in our own strength for God which will definitely be burned, God will create in us the will to do of His good pleasure so the works being done through us is wrought in God for which we will be blessed in the deed. There is where the major difference is. It is a matter of spiritual life and death. If I were to shrug at this, it would tell me I don't care about your soul or mine. That is the gospel. That is why it is called good news. We don't have to do it in our own strength. He will complete the work He started in us - not we ourselves!

When it comes to matters of the soul, our feelings make a wonderful servant but a very poor leader! It is written: "My people perish for lack of knowledge" Many people believe in Jesus in different ways; for instance, Muslims believe He is a great prophet but not the Son of God. Cults like Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus is the only angel God calls His son. Moreover, there are other Christians that believe that Jesus is a created being. All Christians build on the foundation of Christ in different ways, but some will receive rewards and some will suffer loss. All will suffer loss, however, regardless of what they do if they don't know who Jesus really is and how to build on the chief corner stone foundation of our eternal souls. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Jesus is God in the flesh; He is the creator of every living creature on earth and at all levels and dimensions of heaven. When it comes to knowing Jesus, tithing is the very least of my concerns. To know Christ, NOT ABOUT Him, is to have eternal life!

Saved from a Christless eternity!

You know what ASSUME stands for? I understand perfectly what you're saying, and I respect you. I, however, make no assumptions regarding what you heard or will say. I am responsible before God to share what I got from Him by faith, and I did that with you. I don't have to do any more work than that. I did it because I owed you that.If you want to discuss it further, I am here for you. If not, I wish you the best and God's richest blessings.

Work out your own salvation = Godly Work for your own salvation = death

Where?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. If we do this we are doing the work of God and instead of us doing dead works in our own strength for God which will definetly be burned, God will create in us the will to do of His good pleasure so the works being done through us is wrought in God for which we will be blessed in the deed. There is where the major difference is. It is a matter of spiritual life and death. If I were to shrug at this, it would tell me I don't care about your soul or mine. That is the gospel. That is why it is called good news. We don't have to do it in our own strength. He will complete the work He started in us - not we ourselves!

I don't don't limit myself to just reading the Bible. I read other books too. Whatever goes along with or confirms the Bible even with elaborations I accept, but anything that goes contrary to it, I don't feel an obligation toward it in the least. The Holy Bible is my yard stick.I say this from my experience of following a prophet in the group I used to belong to. I went through a seven year spiritual maze that God has delievered me from. Christians tried to talk me out of my deception, but I was like a Bible answer man type of dude who had all the answers even if they weren't in the Bible. Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with or it is bad to tithe, but I know that trusting in our works to be okay with God is a deception that causes the law of Christ not to be in effect of our lives. If you feel you should *shrug* at this, I don't know what else to say. I am speaking what is true in love concerning the Scriptures. The ball remains in your park. The Pharisees were careful to tithe. Jesus rebuked them. If we are going by the law and all its commands, we had better keep it all perfectly. We can't do that. That is why all this law keeping was nailed to a tree. If we have faith that equals all the good works through God's grace. His work is to believe on whom He sent. Don't be deceived!

If you are saying that tithing is a commandment for the New Testament Church, it would be appreciated if you can give the verse for that in the Bible.The way I see it, the commands given to the NT church is to love God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments rest all the law and the prophets. Nothing else! Anyone trusting in tithing as a command leading to the salvation of your souls is to trust in dead works! Giving is a good thing, but I will not frustrate the spirit of God's grace in such a way as to say it can make the difference on our eternal destiny. Our salvation is only by faith through God's grace. Trusting in any other works is dead works and will cause us to fall short of God's grace and Christ is dead to you. If you want to give a tenth of your income, that is fine, but don't do it as if it were a necessary work for your salvation! It is written: Gal 2: 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Hebrews 6 1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this will we do, if God permit. G

Wait a minute, you believe you will loose your salvation if you don't tithe?

General comment for lurkers and whoever: When truth is spoken and we reject it, that is an experience. It is written, "If we reject the love of the truth, God will send us a strong delusion that we might believe a lie." That would be another experience to give account for on judgment day. God has given us the gift of eternal life. I know I have it. Do you?

When it comes to matters of the soul, our feelings make a wonderful servant but a very poor leader! It is written: "My people perish for lack of knowledge" Many people believe in Jesus in different ways; for instance, Muslims believe He is a great prophet but not the Son of God. Cults like Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus is the only angel God calls His son. Moreover, there are other Christians that believe that Jesus is a created being. All Christians build on the foundation of Christ in different ways, but some will receive rewards and some will suffer loss. All will suffer loss, however, regardless of what they do if they don't know who Jesus really is and how to build on the chief corner stone foundation of our eternal souls. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Jesus is God in the flesh; He is the creator of every living creature on earth and at all levels and dimensions of heaven. When it comes to knowing Jesus, tithing is the very least of my concerns. To know Christ, NOT ABOUT Him, is to have eternal life!

I don't know how to start a new thread.

I would say it is not about us; it is about Him. Many religions say it is about our obedience and our faithfulness, but that begs the question: What is one obedient and faithful to do? Muslims, for example, pray five times a day in certain a direction. They are obedient and faithfull to do so. Does that mean God is going to bless them for it over someone who does not believe it is necessary to face a certain direction and pray five times in one day?

That may be true if one believes they must tithe. Everyone must operate according to their faith. For whatever is not done in faith is sin.

"Did He perform the redeeming works for all mankind?" Yes"Or, are there any that cannot be saved through His works?" No These questions really don't make sense. You put an "or" in there as if they were the same question asked in another way, but they require two different answers. I don't know where you are getting all this stuff from. It is written, "God is not the author of confusion.... Beware, lest any lead you away from the simplicity that is in Christ Jesus."

That is a testimony of God's faithfulness and His love for us. That doesn't change with respect of how much money we give or if we pay tithe or not.

First of all don't bring in terms I didn't mention such as exaltation. I said the salvation of our souls. You have just contradicted yourself in the second and fourth sentence. Make up your mind. No wonder you are so hard to pin down. You change your answers just when we are getting warm. You asked this question: "Does repenting and believing in Him earn us salvation?" Your answer was no, but you lead me to believe there is something we can do to earn it. What is it we can do to earn it since you said that repentence and believing does not? Are you saying we need to expend our own best efforts to earn it, and then He completes salvation for us? Believe = to take in Faith = evidence of the unseen and substance of things hoped for What if we try, but our efforts are not successful?

Ananias and Sapphira were not about tithing. They lied to the Holy Spirit which was lying to God. They could have kept back half of their possessions if they were honest in saying this is all we want to give! Luke 14:33 does not say we should tithe; it says we should give all we have if we truly want to be disciples of Christ! Half will not do; a tenth will not do! He gave all. We must give all! Being a Christian is impossible for human ability, but with God all things are possible.

Unfair:o I am just trying to pin something down so we can tell what we are debating about or discussing. You see it is going to be very difficult because of the terminology block. I see salvation and being saved or having eternal life or being written in The Lamb's Book of Life or entering into the joy of the Lord as, well, being synonymous with each other and you don't. I’ll can try to make the question fair and consistent in terms for you if it helps such as the following: Do you believe that Christ's death and shed blood on the cross is sufficient for our salvation apart from human effort? Moreover, do we need to work for salvation using our own strength and best efforts to complete the salvation gift for us? Your answer to these questions will clear everything up for me as to where we both stand. As I mentioned simple yes or no response will do, but feel free to elaborate if you must. It looks like I have turned it into two questions.

Sorry to hear that about your mom. I hope she feels better soon. I'll pray for her.

Okay, I am confused:huh: