lattelady

I believe in One God in three persons (God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), And God the Holy Spirit. It's one of the things about my faith that is hardest to comprehend and yet I still believe that the Bible teaches the truth of the concept--three in One. I believe God is Spirit, without a body, that Jesus is the Son of God and yet God at the same time (and that He took on a body when He came to earth, born of a Virgin) and that the Holy Spirit is God, and is just that: a Spirit.

Snow, can YOU show ME one passage in the Bible or the Book of Mormon where it says the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are three separate Gods that are united only in purpose? **(by the way, I know that in John 17 it talks about the Father and Son being united in purpose, but it doesn't say they are separate Gods). Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon consistently say that there is only one God.

The trinity is taught throughout the Bible, and amazingly, LDS scripture seems to back it up as well! (Anatess, if loving the Bible and studying it makes me a theologian, I guess... yes it's true that I'm a non-member; if the word "investigator" is used negatively, then I'm probably not that. If it's okay to have a discussion, then that's what I'm up for. I don't enjoy discussions peppered with anger/mockery/rudeness. But I suppose that's what I have to put up with now and then if I choose to hang out here! I do my best to be kind and considerate!

Snow, I'll post more later, but I have to tend to my family--can't spend all day on the computer... Just being totally honest about Augustine and the other men you've mentioned and quoted--I don't study them or live by them. I live by the Word of God. No need to be shocked or appalled that I don't ascribe to their teachings--yep, I've heard of 'em. Nope, I know nothing of what they teach. Jesus said that if someone comes teaching a gospel other than what He taught, let that person be accursed. I follow the teachings of Christ.

Snow, Mark 12:29. "Jesus answered, 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord Our God is one Lord."

Pam, where is the "report a post" option you mentioned? I can't find it.

Hemidakota, are you directing your question to me? If so, what exactly are you referring to?

Snow...are you avoiding me? I posted some scripture "proof" that you asked for, and you have yet to respond.

Lstinthewrld, They ARE Old Testament verses, but since the God of the Bible is Eternal, it doesn't really matter if the verse is Old Testament or New. It's speaking of the same ETERNAL God and saying that there was no God formed before or after Him. That doesn't change. The new gospel that Christ fulfilled was one of grace as opposed to law (Old testament/New testament--but had nothing to do with who God is. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. The truths of God's Word ARE absolute. "Before you believe the bible as the inerrant word of god look into the history of the bible. It will change your mind on that fact." I have looked into the history of the Bible. I've studied it all my life. It's where my faith comes from. I haven't changed my mind yet!

Snow, did you see my post?

Snow, men becoming gods is contrary to the teachings of Christ. I can direct you to passages in the Bible that show a biblical view that there is one God. I did not address anywhere on this thread that early Christians believed there were multiple gods, because that would be incorrect. You've mentioned various quotes to try and substantiate that, but I don't consider those men to be Christians in the sense that they believe the true Gospel. I believe in the Bible, that it is the inerrant Word of God. As such, I believe these passages that I'm about to show you teach that there is ONE GOD. ONLY ONE. That He has always existed, and that He is eternal and that He did not progress to the station He is at. He is eternally God. Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was not God formed, neither shall there be after me." Isaiah 44:6,8 "Thus saith the Lord the Kind of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God...Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no god; I know not any." These are just two of MANY. How have I belittled you, Snow?

Is the point of all of this to distract from the original question by filling up the thread with posts about the two of you picturing yourselves laughing? :) I'm going to attempt to draw this thread back to the original point that I was trying to get at in the original post: there seems to be confusion as to whether the Church believes in one God or many gods. (and the eventual worship of one God, or many worlds with many gods being worshipped). Many have said, "We are monotheistic." Others will post and disagree with that. What the current prophets proclaim seems to differ from past prophets.

I recognize worship not as lip-service: "I praise you, Heavenly Father," but as what scripture says it is in Romans 12: 1 "I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your SPIRITUAL SERVICE OF WORSHIP." Giving our lives wholly and completely to God. A few things I've found as I've searched the idea of God worshipping his God. Snow, I get the idea that you're looking for those exact words being quoted somewhere. That's probably not going to happen; but see what you think of these quotes; I'm not telling you what to think, either. I'm simply asking you to read them and see what you think of them; so try your hardest to kindly not attack me in your response. I'm not being contentious or rude to you. "I tell you more: Adam is the father of our spirits. He lived upon an earth, he did abide his creation and did honor to his calling and priesthood and obeyed his master or lord, and probably many of his wives did the same and lived upon the earth and then were resurrected again to ummortality and eternal life." Brigham Young from Brigham Young Addresses1850-1854 (Vol.2 By Elder J. Watson Sheet 221) "God and man are of the same race, differing only in their degree of advancement." Gospel Through The Ages p.107 LDS Apostle Dr. John Widtsoe (1872-1952) "My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get to my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself." Journal of Discourses Vol. 6 p.4 1844

Snow, are you aware that there are others who agree with Believer's assertion? Why are you seemingly out to get him by focusing on that particular quote? (Thanks, Desirexnoel: I concur.)

"The more we progress the more we will realize that worship is just respect." I really disagree with that quote. I have a deep respect for many people, and I'm not using the word flippantly. I respect my 93-year-old grandfather--he is an amazing man of God and has more integrity than anyone I know. But I do not worship him. I respect him. I give him a place of honor. I don't worship him. I respect my parents. Not just because I'm commanded by God to, but because they are respectable. They are worthy of my respect! But I would never worship them. That place is reserved for God alone. Anything else is idolatry.

I heard the same question so consistently that I think I just assumed there was some teaching or lesson given on the subject of the cross; the question about, "if your mother died in a car wreck, would you wear a miniature car..." I figured that was an illustration someone had used to perhaps drive home a point that focusing on the cross was morbid. It doesn't represent a dead Christ--all those who celebrate the message of the gospel are pretty clear that He's alive. To me, the cross is a symbol of the gospel message. It isn't morbid--it's the most beautiful thing I know.

Rameuptom, how did ancient people view eternity? as cyclical? what does that mean exactly? The dictionary defines it as "infinite duration." Can you reference some other views of eternity, as seen from others' perspectives, that would have a definition other than infinite duration or forever?

If a person were to "go apostate", do they get the same opportunity that others do (a second chance) after they die--in LDS teaching?

That's great, wise advice, bytebear. Thanks for sharing it. Pam, I'm sorry. It made me sad when I read your post. I wish they'd keep their comments to themselves, too...it's always disappointing to hear about people who share common ground with me (I'm non-denominational, as well) treating others in a way that hurts God's heart. I had to chuckle, though, when I went back through and read your post, and realized that there was something that just didn't look right--it was the way you spelled non-denominational: "non-DEMONinational". [caps mine] Made me laugh! :) :)

John Doe, I imagine Salt Lake County is a bit more diverse than the small-town area of Utah I grew up in and now live in as an adult. Believe me, people wearing crosses here are few and far between. I'm glad the people you've talked with haven't been treated with unpleasant behavior.

Justice, the scriptures that you used that spoke of eternity used just that word. Eternity. Using those scriptures, I cannot understand your logic. If we're going to use the "truth of scripture" as a basis, then why are you putting the spin of your own interpretation on it? When has the word eternity ever meant a "generation"? If everyone is allowed to make words mean what they want them to mean, then there will be as many spins on your church's doctrine as their are members of your church.

I just believe the thought process is flawed; when it comes right down to it, no one TOOK Jesus life--He willingly gave it. So... He wasn't murdered with a gun. And he didn't die in a cross accident. He gave His life, as part of God's PLAN, for my sin. And I seek to remember that sacrifice and I LOVE what He did for me and the love He has for me. To keep that ever-before me is a wonderful reminder, because the cross is empty. He's not still hanging there (I don't wear a crucifix with a Christ still hanging there, because He's RISEN!!)--He lives, for me. for you.

Dear Lilac, What is "Rough Stone Rolling" about?

Beefche, if you wore the cross that you want to purchase, would your LDS friends question you about it? Would they dislike you wearing it?

Palerider--no, I said I got unfavorable looks and it started conversations. LDS friends said, "If your father or mother died in a car accident, would you hang a miniature car charm on your necklace in remembrance of their death?" in a very exasperated tone, and I was always very confused by the thought process.