JayGlad

And I believe that it's the "opinion" and "speculation" amongst the members that causes so much contention (another thread here) and leads weaker members away from the truth. The restored gospel of Jesus Christ is not a gospel of speculation; His Church is not a church of opinion; His doctrines are not doctrines of conjecture. Yet far too many of us have allowed speculation, opinion, and conjecture to become part of our personal beliefs and in some cases, even our teachings. Anything less than the truth is false. Anything less than light is darkness. On more than one occasion, Elder Bruce R. McConkie, of the Quorum of the Twelve, taught: “There is no salvation in believing a false doctrine.” Elder McConkie went on and listed several axioms (an axiom is a statement or proposition that is regarded as being factual or true). Three of the axioms he gave were: “Truth, diamond truth, truth unmixed with error, truth alone leads to salvation. “Gospel doctrines belong to the Lord, not to men. They are his. He ordained them, he reveals them, and he expects us to believe them. “We are called upon to reject all heresies and cleave unto all truth. Only then can we progress according to the divine plan” (The Seven Deadly Heresies, an address given at Brigham Young University, June 1, 1980). There is so much truth to be learned (and applied), I cannot understand why we speed so much of our limited time discussing opinions and speculations, neither of which will lead us to our exaltation.

Having gone back and read your edited reply, allow me one last response. Then I'm finished with this thread. Marc, I wish I were there with you so you could see and hear me, because I am being as sincere and gentle as I know how. I don't expect an immediate reply--I don't expect a reply at all, really. Just offering food for serious thought. Please, consider the following: If you truly believe that Jesus Christ, His atonement and the Holy Ghost are incapable or unable to bless us, to change our hearts to the point that we can judge as He does, what does that imply? Anyone who believes within his heart of hearts that we cannot judge righteously (or develop any other divine attribute), then he will not try. If he never tries, he will never gain the ability to do so (or develop that divine attribute, whatever it is). It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ultimately, it an indication of a lack of faith, and faith we must have and exercise if we are to become like Him. It is possible! If I may, I'd make one last suggestion. Stop focusing on the fallen nature (fool, imperfect, sinner) and focus on being a son of God, one who is of royal birth, one who is one of God's convent people. Focus on the eternal nature--see and recognize your potential as a God. It is life changing! We must believe (have the faith) that He can change us just as He says He can. We must not only believe in Christ, we must believe what He says as it pertains to us individually. When we do, then, wonderful and miraculous things begin to happen in our lives and to our character, through our Savior's atonement, not through anything we do ourselves.

OK, I see. This is one of weaknesses of forums. Comments can pass one another. You did not put words in my mouth. Please, do accept my sincere apology. It has been chalked up to a miscommunication. Thank you!

Yes, I was. You, me, Suzie, everyone of us make judgments practically every minute of the day. All of us here are making judgments as we move through this thread. You said, "You are right. I am imperfect. I am a fool. I am a sinner." I never said any of those things! I didn't think any of those things. I do think you are mistaken, but that is based solely on what you have written, nothing more, nothing less. Therefore, based on what you have said, I "judge" that you do not believe that men can judge righteously, even though Jesus has commanded us to do so.

Suzie, it was understood. I hope your quotes help others to understand. Oh, FWI, "stewardship" is not limited to a formal calling.

Please, DO NOT put words in my mouth! That is most unbecoming.

Can't you see you are still insisting that love and righteous judgment are exclusive? They are not! They are so intertwined that they cannot be separated when done by the Spirit. You and others here are of the opinion that judging is limited to seeing only the bad in people and things. Nothing could be further from the truth! That tells me you do not fully understanding the eternal concept of judging.

Indeed and amen!

WOW! I would urge you to reconsider what you just wrote. Then, I would strongly encourage you to read and ponder the following: Judge not unrighteously, that ye be not judged; but judge righteous judgment. For with what judgment ye shall judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. (JST Matthew 7:2-3) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24) Judge not according to your traditions, but judge righteous judgment. (JST John 7:24) Therefore, my son, see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously, and do good continually; and if ye do all these things then shall ye receive your reward; yea, ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again; and ye shall have good rewarded unto you again. (Alma 41:14) And now, verily, verily, I say unto thee, put your trust in that Spirit which leadeth to do good—yea, to do justly, to walk humbly, to judge righteously; and this is my Spirit. (D&C11:12) That I may proceed to bring to pass my act, my strange act, and perform my work, my strange work, that men may discern between the righteous and the wicked, saith your God. (D&C 101:95) Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy. (Proverbs 31:9) Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil. For behold, my brethren, it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil; and the way to judge is as plain, that ye may know with a perfect knowledge, as the daylight is from the dark night. For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God. But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him. And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged. Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ. (Moroni 7:14-19) For I remember the word of God which saith by their works ye shall know them; for if their works be good, then they are good also. (Moroni 7:5; see Moroni 7:6-13) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Matthew 16:27) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. (James 2:17-18) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Revelation 20:12) And they shall teach my people [the difference] between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; [and] they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths. (Ezekiel 44:23-24) President Joseph F. Smith taught that there are some prerequisites to enjoying such inspiration (righteous judgment): “The only safe way for us to do, as individuals, is to live so humbly, so righteously and so faithfully before God that we may possess his Spirit to that extent that we shall be able to judge righteously, and discern between truth and error.” (Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 45) It is vividly clear from the scriptures that the Lord has commanded us to learn how to judge as He judges--in righteousness! He has commanded us to be perfect, even as He is. It is stunning to me that anyone here would suggest that no man can be righteous or can judge righteously is an indication of a misunderstanding and/or misinterpreting of our responsibility as a covenant people as handed down by our Savior and King. If we elect to shun our responsibilities in our efforts to become like Him, then we will never become like Him! If what you say were true, then what of the Gifts of the Spirit? What of the Spirit of Discernment, which is required when judging righteously? Consider the following: *Discernment, Gift of The gift of discernment consists of the spiritual quality or skill of being able to see or understand, especially that which is hidden or obscure. This ability is shared in a general way by all of God's children, but “discerning of spirits” is one of the gifts of the spirit that comes, under certain circumstances, specially from God (1 Cor. 12:10; D&C 46:23). The fuller gift of discerning in all spiritual matters—to know whether their occurrence is of God or not—is given by the Lord to “such as God shall appoint and ordain to watch over the church” (D&C 46:27). To possess this gift is to receive divinely revealed understanding of opposing spirits—the spirit of God and the spirit of the devil. Persons possessing such a gift also correctly perceive the right course of action (D&C 63:41). Not only can the power of discernment distinguish good from evil (Moro. 7:12-18), the righteous from the wicked (D&C 101:95), and false spirits from divine (D&C 46:23), but its more sensitive operation can also make known even “the thoughts and intents of the heart” of other persons (Heb. 4:12; D&C 33:1). “The gift of discernment [embodies] the power to discriminate between right and wrong [and] arises largely out of an acute sensitivity to spiritual impressionsto detect hidden evil, and more importantly to find the good that may be concealed. The highest type of discernment uncovers [in others] their better natures, the good inherent within them” (Richards, p. 371). Every Latter-day Saint has spiritual leaders who, by virtue of their callings, are entitled to the gift of discernment to enable them to lead and counsel correctly. “The gift of discernment is essential to the leadership of the Church [of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]. I never ordain a bishop or set apart a president of a stake without invoking upon him this divine blessing, that he may read the lives and hearts of his people and call forth the best within them. The gift and power of discernment [are] essential equipment for every son and daughter of God. The true gift of discernment is often premonitory. A sense of danger should be heeded to be of value” (Richards, p. 371). Bibliography Richards, Stephen L. "The Gifts of the Spirit." IE 53 [May 1950]:371. Smith, Joseph Fielding, ed. TPJS, pp. 202-215. Salt Lake City, 1938. Leon R. Hartshorn (from Encyclopedia of Mormonism, ed., Daniel H. Ludlow)

It seems as though you had implied it. Sorry.

I never suggested otherwise, did I?

Amen!

Suzie, I agree with you, but at the same time I have to say, "It depends on so many things." Do some misuse the term "righteous judgment"? Certainly! I would suggest that those who do, obviously, neither understand nor correctly apply it. Having said that, make no mistake that we--members of the Church of Jesus Christ--have been given a charge to learn how to judge righteously. The unfortunate truth is that those who have yet learned how, condemn the those who have. How ironic!

Ah, but you see, that in and of itself is a judgment. Not only that, but you are strongly implying that those who judge a righteous judgment are incapable of loving. You're also implying that judging and loving are exclusive of each other. How judgmental is that!?

I would submit the following: If my and my children's perception of my love for them is based on my willingness to acquiesce to their unrighteous desires, and to participate in them in any way, shape or form (such as a celebration), then I would say that neither of us understands what Christ-like love truly is.