Tr2

Can you not read?

Of course! However I am not willing to accept something that goes against the principles of things that have worked in my own life. A few days ago I had a less trained emergency medical responder tell me that basic life support is all he needs for patient care. That is fine for him. But I have learned, through experience, that advanced life support is more effective for patient care in some circumstances. I am not willing to kick aside tried and tested things for new and unproven things.

You didn't finish that sentence. Smith joined the Methodist church AFTER he received his "revelation" from God that all other churches were wrong.

No.

That is called "Discussion". Neat huh?

No, it's that I'm on moderated status and my posts take a while to show up.

I have constantly remarked about smart people believing dumb things. I guess something like this gives ground to what I've been saying for quite a long time.

A few things I'd like to ask;1- The bible says God is love. Do you often have people, who say they love you, refuse to speak to you just to test your loyalty? 2- Why do you defend the mormon church when you are unsure of it yourself? You appear to be trying to take everybody's side.

I did ask you what your God did. You claimed something, all I asked is if you witnesses this event yourself? For all I know this could be something you just decided to make up to try and gain the upper hand in a discussion. And if you want to talk about TACF, start another thread. Don't try and change the subject. You are giving me unvalidated claims which don't prove your god has done anything.

You prove to me that your god ever descended from a pillar of light, or whatever you said. If I claimed the exact same thing, you would want some evidence. I am asking the same thing.

Just when I think I have you figured out, you leave me speechless. Don't you consider yourself to be mormon (mormonism professes to be christianity)?

Heal somebody after surgery? My understanding is that there is a considerable amout of swelling after any type of major surgery like that to the nervous system. Swelling NATURALLY goes away. This is a well documented medical fact that happens in the majority of cases.Re-locate a bone in the lower body? Again this is a skills that doctors do quite well. As a paramedic I am not licenced to do this, so I guess you have me there. Neither of these is proof of God doing anything. I respect doctors quite a great deal and have the priviledge of working along side them on a regular basis. But they are wrong on occasion. I once corrected a doctor about an ECG strip, and he acknowedged that. That baby and I have each proven doctors wrong.If you guys are going to keep using medical examples, at least do your homework first. I am talking about things that you have first hand experience with, not things you've read in a book.

You are right, it is about faith. Anybody who could believe in Mormonism clearly has 10x the faith I have. Many people have allowed their faith to overstep their intelligent judgment. I honestly don't think you believe either one.

Gay Mormons in Love ************************************************ Gay Mormons in love Relationships at heart of 'Latter Days' By Andy Culpepper CNN Wednesday, March 10, 2004 Posted: 4:24 PM EST (2124 GMT) LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The filmmaker and cast behind "Latter Days" are on a mission: to get as many people as possible in to see their little film. It's a sometime drama, sometime romantic comedy about two young men who find each other, love each other, and deal with the consequences of love's often messy aftermath. And, oh yeah: one of the men is a Mormon. The Los Angeles Times has given "Latter Days" a positive review, and writer/director C. Jay Cox can't suppress an ear-to-ear grin. "Those are the kind of reviews that you hope for, that you wish for, that you dream about," he beams. If the title strikes a chord, it's not by accident. The words are an allusion to the Mormon church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Cox is an ex-Mormon and the church figures prominently in the film's plot. "Well, it's not strictly autobiographical, but I was raised Mormon," says the screenwriter, who also penned the script for the popular Reese Witherspoon comedy, "Sweet Home Alabama." "My family's been Mormon for five generations. I was a Mormon missionary when I was 19. And after moving to Los Angeles and coming out," he continues, "I think that I was able to experience the other side of the movie, so I did come to the movie knowing both of those characters." Combustible mix Coming out? Yes, Cox is gay, as are the two characters to which he refers -- a young Mormon missionary coming to terms with his sexuality and a twentysomething hunk who sees him as just another number in his sexual repertoire. "Latter Days" marks Cox's directorial debut. The movie is an ensemble effort which includes acting veterans Mary Kay Place and Jacqueline Bisset, along with Wes Ramsey and Joseph Gordon-Levitt ("Third Rock from the Sun"). Ramsey plays a hunk who finds himself falling in love with his missionary conquest (Steve Sandvoss). If the combustible mix of religion and homosexuality almost certainly guarantees controversy, Ramsey thinks good may come of it. "Controversy raises questions, and I think it's important for us all to be asking questions of ourselves and about our faith, about our beliefs, and our feelings emotionally, personally and spiritually in life. And if it brings attention to the film, great." "Latter Days" proves to be the rule, not the exception. Theaters in Utah originally planning to show the film have since canceled it. Effectively, "Latter Days" finds itself banned -- and the beneficiary of more publicity. Actor Erik Palladino -- who plays Keith, a man living with AIDS -- says the attention can only benefit the film. "At this point, don't you get when you create controversy over a movie, it helps the movie?" he says and laughs. "It's gonna help the movie. It's not rocket science." 'I wasn't setting out to create controversy' In the film, the Mormon missionary -- Elder Aaron, played by Steve Sandvoss -- finds himself excommunicated from the church. Playing the linchpin character in the film's plot gave Sandvoss an opportunity to experience a blurring of the lines between what is real and what is not. First, there was Sandvoss' girlfriend. "She was taken aback," he recalls. But there was also the note left by a fan on Sandvoss' Web site. " 'Steve, I think you're mixed up about this,' " Sandvoss recounts. " 'It seems you're a smart guy but you've been flattered by some men, but they're more concerned with what's between your legs.' I just laughed." "I wasn't setting out to create controversy or stir up trouble," says Cox. "I just really wanted to speak from my experience...I was just surprised during the filming of the movie just how emotionally intense some of those experiences became, not just for the actors, but for me as the director." One such moment in the movie comes in a confrontational scene between Sandvoss' character and his Mormon mother, played by Place. The two are in the kitchen when Place clocks her son with her open palm. "It was devastating to both of us. The look on his face, I will never forget as long as I live," she says. If Place's character provides the power from right of center, it is Bisset's role, that of a kind-hearted restaurant owner, which provides the film's emotional ballast. "It says that people have many colors," she considers. "The world is so diverse now and seemingly more open than it was, but there's still a long way to go. The film doesn't advocate anything. It just allows this relationship to come together."

Where does this utter hatred of the evangelical church come from? It is an extremely unhealthy thing. I first read this paragraph and then went back to other posts similar in nature. Your anger is subtle but fierce. I am now thinking that you are a member of the mormon church just to spite the evengelical church. You don't hold many traditional mormon beliefs but still hold the notion that you are part of a more elite belief system. Don't know why this has taken so long to dawn on me.Jason, best of luck to you.

I still cannot believe BoM believers are getting involved in this discussion. Words cannot describe this well enough,

Did I say that?

I'd say it takes 10x the faith to believe what mormonism teaches. let's take the Jesus being married thread as a recent example. The best possible reason why people believe this is so is because the bible doesn't rule it out directly. Is there a slight, slight possibility? Yes. There is nothing in the bible to give anybody any reason whatsoever to believe Jesus was married. But LDS leaders have said so and that is all people need. Now that is what I call faith. Blind faith, but faith nonetheless. I do. Many people do. I'd tend to agree. However the vast majority of mormons do not look at the BoM in the same objective light they view the bible. I thought that was relevant, but fair enough. But the difference is that the bible is a documented historical book, the BoM is not. Most of the bible was written and produced over 1800 years ago. The BoM came out less than 200 years ago. 200 years ago people all knew the importance of historical artifacts. The BoM is a very recent thing. It has not withstood the test of time as the bible has. In 1600 years we'll see if the BoM is still around in the same state as it is today, the bible is. There is historical basis for the bible. Timelines match up, as do cultures. The oldest culture and timeline of the bible I know of is Moses. I read about an Egyptian general named Moses who was trained in the finest schools, led many armies to victory, and who was royalty. That timeline matches up with what the bible says about Moses. I don't know if every event of the bible is a true event, or if some is symbolic or metaphorical. What I do know is that for most of the bible there is a historical reason to believe it. Job is one that we know nothing about at all. Christianity is popular because of its proven track record and success. Throughout the most horrendous persecution of any religion, in the early centuries, it came through and has only gotten stronger. And in many areas of the world, Asia and Africa come to mind, that lifestyle is still in effect.

What do I care?

Who said that? I'd really like to know. I cannot count the number of times where i have said the EXACT same thing. Then there are people like snow who openly admit that they do not compare the two with the same level of judgment.So who said it? Little LDS "revelation" can be backed up by the bible. Then I guess the Nazi party was more true than the mormon church. They had more people willing to go to war for what they believed. The most powerful men of one of the greatest armies in the world were all Nazi's. If this is the standard than mormonism takes a back seat to the Nazi's, and communism.

I appreciate the thought, but I'm ok.

Wow, did you hear what you wanted to hear.

What has your god done?

What?

I find it very humerous that because you read somewhere that somebody thinks the Toronto Airport Church is a cult, that makes it so but give no weight to the fact that the mormon church is probably the best documented cult in the world. Do you repeatedly bring up subjects that you care nothing about?You make me laugh.