ronism99403

I'm not so dubious. I've been in this relationship 3 years now, and sex is no longer an issue. The friendship, however, is very important to me. I do not want to leave Don. Would I have to leave him to regain activity in the Church, even though there is no longer any sexual activity going on?

I asked the same question a moment ago and was directed to this thread. I wasn't asking in order to find a loophole. I asked because I am currently in a relationship with a wonderful man, and wanted to know if I chose to step back a bit--making the relationship platonic--while still maintaining the relationship (because it is so much more than sex) then could a Bishop say to me, "That's good enough.", and could I re-obtain fellowship?

Would it be acceptable in the Church if I chose to live chaste, but remained in a close affectionate relationship with my partner.

As a former Protestant Christian, it was emphasized to me again and again that Jesus is God's fully revealed perfect word. We were taught to filter everything in the scriptures through the lens of God's perfect revelation, Jesus. For example, based on what we know about Jesus' character in the Gospel accounts the Old Testament Scriptures claiming that God commanded genocide were wrong. Such a thing directly contradicts the body of Christ's teaching and life's example. For me Jesus is the doctrine. However, I became a Mormon, and I did so because added revelation further clarified who Jesus was for me. I liked the distinctive Mormon flavor found in some of the Churches proscriptions. A peculiar people, afterall, but it is not that important in my mind. And I fully anticipate a possible change via revelation in woman's priesthood status, and I even have hope that 100 years down the road the Church's stance on gay people will change.

As a young lad, I was influenced by C.S. Lewis' view imagined in the seventh book of the Chronicles Of Narnia, The Last Battle, where heaven is described as being like the physical world we are from but only more real, and that our blessed journey through all eternity is to travel ever deeper, further into heaven where it gets more real and glorious the farther you go, eternally and forever. And of course I was taught that there would be no marriage in heaven--that all the saved would be like brothers and sisters joyfully worshiping and serving God forever. There was some hinting from my childhood Church that those who lived holier lives on Earth would have a greater reward, but that was never fleshed out for me.

Apparently some sins offended Jesus more than others. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matt. 18:6 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mark 6:11 I had a friend who often said, "Sure, sin is sin just as an apple is an apple, but some apples are bigger than other apples."

Predestination emphasizes the sovereignty of God over free will. Those within the Reformed tradition of Christianity would insist that we have free will, but because we are born sinners, we will only ever choose sin over God (total depravity). We are saved by God's undeserved intervention in our lives (unmerited favor). Those of us who are saved were irresistibly drawn to God by the Holy Spirit (irresistible grace). Only those who God has predestined to be saved will be saved and the rest will be deservedly damned (limited atonement). Moses had no choice. He was predestined to be a prophet before the foundation of the world and could not resist the Spirit's call. He would never be able to not choose God because God had chosen him (perseverance of the saints). Esau chose his sin because he was born a sinner, and would always be a sinner because God chose not to save him.

I won't because He has never forgotten me.

Jesus said, "The first in importance is, love the Lord God.' And here is the second: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.' There is no other commandment that ranks with these. What translation is this? I love it.

At first I did not want to vote for one above the other. Because I grew up a protestant Christian who then was baptized a Mormon Christian ten years ago, I thought that both statements were of equal importance. Especially when I remember how my childhood friends contrasted my new affiliation as Mormon, but once a Christian, while I constantly emphasized to them that I was still a Christian even though I turned Mormon. However, upon further reflection, I realized that I accepted my second baptism based upon the revelation that I was entering Christ's true church restored upon the Earth. No small thing indeed! It wasn't a repudiation of what I'd previously believed, but an admission that it was incomplete.

It is good to be back. But I am as awkward as I ever was. Maybe even more so now.

Sorry,I am socially inept, especially in the virtual world. By the way, how is that done?

I was so excited to join this group. Then I promptly got drunk and said some insulting things to a senior member on the Gospel Discussion Board for which I am ashamed. So much for a good first impression. Oh, and today I attended my first AA meeting. Here's hoping for a life of sobriety.

I read this thread a couple of days ago. And then I heard this talk referenced in Clarkston's 2nd Ward today, after having not gone to Church regularly for over 3 years. To me, this is significant.

I gleaned much from theses posts. Thank you all.

I like it that I am once again hangin' out with them Mormons.

I apologize. Some of my comments here were out of line.

None of my posts are insults to you. You would know that if you could get past yourself and let other people breathe. I'm going to bed now. I will forget about you, and post nothing about you forever more. You should do the same.

I am gay, and I am happy to be so. I've always been cheerful and such, but would you know it, I also just happened to be gay. Gay, which means so many other things other than just gay. Like dressing up as Elvis and doing the unexpected. Gay is always so unexpected. And unaccepted.

I'm noticing that you get awfully testy if you don't have something to attack. Just an observation.

Oh, Snow. I have simply been too nuanced for you. Sorry for being so complex. Go back and read the thread and try to understand. Hint: In one of my posts--with the quotation marks around the first sentence, I was pretending to think like you apparently think.

No offense. I don't necessarily think gay is bad. Different yes.

Oh my gosh, mormonmusic, that's so gay.

Snow, I don't waste my time labeling people's apparent logical fallacies. That's the job you've apparently volunteered for.

Oh, I'm not trying to persuade. That is apparently your job. But I haven't yet figured out what you, by the force of your self-convinced convincing arguments, want me to believe.