catalyst

August 14th and his real name was Jonathan Richman. I'm pretty sure the "revelation" came from one of the Seventy back in the late 70's.

I've had two separate incidences where I've been emailed by someone saying they read my profile and want to get to know me better-as in possible relationship. What is this all about? First one was fati4u and the other I erased a while back Have Nigerian scammers infiltrated this forum?

Maybe it will be better than the Book of Mormon movies the church puts out. Worst...Acting... Ever.

There is a great quote from I believe John Taylor which basically says that as members we should always be questioning our thoughts and beliefs. I was digging through my stuff trying to find it but to no avail. I always found it interesting as it seems contrary to the more modern approach which is expressed in the quote being discussed in this thread or that one would hear in a typical service. I'll see if I can hunt it down.

Actually the common explanation that polygamy was practiced in order to provide homes to a surplus of women in the church is a myth. LDS apostle John Widtsoe discussed this: “Plural marriage has been a subject of wide and frequent comment. Members of the Church unfamiliar with its history, and many nonmembers, have set up fallacious reasons for the origin of this system of marriage among the Latter-day Saints. “The most common of these conjectures is that the Church, through plural marriage sought to provide husbands for its large surplus of female members. The implied assumption in this theory, that there have been more female than male members in the Church, is NOT supported by existing evidence. On the contrary, there seems always to have been MORE MALES than females in the Church... “Another conjecture is that the people were few in numbers and that the Church, desiring greater numbers, permitted the practice so that a phenomenal increase in population could be attained. This is not defensible, since there WAS NO SURPLUS OF WOMEN.” (Evidences and Reconciliations, 1960, pages 390-392)

Apparently he's not truly forgiven unless he confesses it to his bishop as well

Why would you assume this? On another note I understand what you are trying to lead to but please remember you are comparing an action which has been left to your interpretation (drinking caffeinated beverages) to another that is indeed viewed as a transgression. There is a world of difference.

Did you really compare drinking caffeinated soda and masturbation as being similar "little things" in the eyes of the LDS leadership? Awesome...

Why would you think abortion over general access to easier forms of contraception? I read an article recently about a possible link between kids being heavier now, therefore generating more hormones=earlier menstruation. Thought that was an interesting perspective.

Then again guys do a lot of crazy things simply for sex

"Inside you know it's wrong" or because you've been conditioned that it's wrong??? There are probably bigger fish to fry but I must say I believe "self mastery" of all things is probably a very positive thing in the eye's of the supreme being. The bigger question here is how come all the "angels" on the LDS.NET header appear to be caucasian? Is that a sample representation of the church or just a statement that you can only go to heaven if you are caucasian?

The real questions is...did a Gilmore Girl hit on him?

Do you mean the push back from the Utah territory or are you referring to the next life?

I'll take your word for it on the numbers. Again I haven't read into it recently. However, again I don' t think Emma's fertility or the fact that there aren't any children that we are currently aware of verifies that there weren't intimate relationships with Joseph and his plural wives. However, maybe he was the anomaly compared to his brethren.

I don't see Emma being fertile as a factor in Joseph not being intimate with his other wives. However, I think last time I was reading about this historians were aware of between 5-7 children from plural wives and were putting in the due diligence to confirm them via DNA testing. There have also been other questionable children from these women which unfortunately died at extremely young ages so testing isn't possible.

That didn't really answer the question. It certainly wasn't all rose pedals and candy according to several accounts. Not singling out JS only but I am referring to him, BY and many of the other elders. I agree with some of the above all though what some may consider an honor was also viewed by some of those individuals as the only way to receive their perceived salvation-more or less a cultural pressure. I don't disagree that some of the relationships served other purposes but it seems really naive to think that the men and women weren't having intimate relationships with several of their wives. Seems that it would be a safe statement to assume it was happening more than it wasn't happening as members tend to profess. In my experience I've noticed that our fellow members tend to try and smolder the intent of polygamy when discussing it. Oddly enough I hear the two most casual responses to why it was asked of us were because: 1-build the membership of the church (ironic?) 2-It was of the highest order and necessary to reach the celestial kingdom On another note-You or I do not know Joseph's relationship with Helen. Historical accounts actually swing both ways as to how intimate it probably was. Considering the fact that the relationship was consensual on both ends certainly could lead to the possibility of intimacy in the relationship and not at all improper. I guess we'll find out after the big dirt nap....

What about the girls or husbands of a couple wives he decided to "court"?

Well not to burst your bubble but it's recorded that although many women found it trying many were also quite content with the lifestyle and didn't show issue with it in the least. It's actually somewhat of a misconception that mormon women were dehumanized by the practice. In reality a lot of wives lived lives similar to those of other women during those times. Don't mistake the practices of fundamentalist now with the earlier churches brand of polygamy. They are actually quite different. But I certainly won't argue that the policy was abused by some. Personally, I'm not quite sure why polygamy is illegal in the first place other than it's simply not a western social norm. I really could care less if consenting adults want to live life this way. As long as people can afford their families it doesn't affect me in the least.

Read some books thread starter... When the church announced their practice officially there were no federal laws against it. You can learn all about the history found in several books-rough stone rolling, mormon polygamy ect. Some actions were considered religiously inspired, some actions were considered scrupulous by historians and my self. You are welcome to form an opinion based on the facts uncovered, opinions, and historical context presented by these historians. However, if you think that sexual relationships with the additional wives by the elders was limited you are simply mistaken. There is documentation all over the place that this wasn't the case. Many of the wives were well aware of this going on and were quite vocal about it with their husbands and in their personal journals. Some fun quotes on polygamy: (Orson Pratt) "Monogamy, reasoned Pratt invited immortality. Prostitution could be prevented, in the way the Lord devised in ancient times; that is, by giving to his faithful servants a plurality of wives."-Mormon Polygamy:a History Brigham Young's second wife (Mary Ann Angell Young) remarked, "God will be very cruel if he does not give us poor women adequate conpensation for the trials we have endured in polygamy." He said he had the advantage of me, for when his women got tired, you could take them home and change them for a fresh one." Phineas Cook to Brigham Young

What about dating a little bit longer to get to know each other better and see if you really are a fit? 6 months and "already engaged" seems a little shotgun. You are planning to spend the rest of your life with this individual. Seems like more time/experience/communication/relationship would be best to make sure this is indeed the person for you and vice versa.

What does reason tell you?

You probably don't want to know what the missionary was doing alone. Speaking from my own mission and listening to stories of my friends there are certain realities in missions that past missionaries don't generally talk about. It's not always happy times, converts with the occasional persecution. Unfortunately everything that you don't think happens on a mission does. Not to be a downer but that's just reality...

I don't pray on some sort of regimen-when I wake up, go to bed, ect. I pray when I feel the need to communicate with the lord.:)

My wife and I watch "House" from time to time. I saw those episodes with the black doctor and I didn't think anything of it. House's character is extremely critical of everything and very condescending. If he met the guy and said, "Oh you're mormon? I really like what you guys do and want to learn more about your church. Let's discuss after helping this patient." it would have been extremely out of character. Never saw this as some attack by Fox to go after mormons. Mormonism is actually pretty interesting, hilarious, and scary considering the history. Poking fun at yourself is good from time to time IMO.

People with comments like this. Although another person's opinion shouldn't stop you from going to church I'm sure it has a hand in some...