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Everything posted by twort

  1. Thank you all sincerely for your words of support, kindness, and even your criticism. I only update this forum in case someone else is having trouble and wants to follow my story start to finish. I hope no one chooses my path. I should have given an ultimadum, triend serious counseling, and then got my divorce. As that point my heart would be free and I could start over, after finding myself again; I could have felt good about my journey and wouldn't have to deal with all of the baggage my current relationship. But life is crazy and full of "if onlys". Making the best of where you are now is all you can do sometimes... and for me that is moving forward with my life, and trying to make things work with the woman I love. Slamjet, I appreciate your comments so much. I've been very frank and haven't been trying to convince anyone that I'm the good guy. I don't believe I am an abusive person, and there are no lines to read between. It's all here. If I wanted people to tell me to follow my heart and to justify my ations I wouldn't go to the mormon blog (attn. Eowyn, Badwolf and others)!! I'd go to cheaters annonymous or yahoo or ANYWHERE BUT HERE! I will probably post another update someday, and I'll keep monitoring this blog. Divorce sure is ugly by the way... no one ends up feeling right in the end. Again, thank you all.
  2. Eowyn - I don't really care what else you have to say. Your comment was sarcastic, and intentionally hurtful. Please don't apologise, or respond in any way, I don't really care to read it. Why would someone like you even bother responding? Do you think you are making anything better, or did it just make you feel better to post something like that maybe? Badwolf - I'm no saint, obviously. I wasn't trying to paint myself in a good light. I was not physically violent or abusive, unless you are referring to how my deception hurt my wife... The final comment is truly unwarranted. Why did you post that? Shortstuff - I appreciate your insight and comments. I know I arrived at my current relationship in a less than ideal way, and I know it would be wise to take a step back as you suggested, but I am happy... it's a hard thing to do, and I truly believe I could have a happy life. I did run away from my marriage, but I know that was the good part. I was so unhappy. Windseeker - thank you for the input. Morningstar - I left her, and she wanted me back, but I wasn't happy. Regardless, I don't want to go back to her. I was so unhappy... All Apologies - thank you...
  3. I just thought I would post an update, maybe my last. Maybe one more when there is more closure. Both of us are currently seeking divorces, mine may finalize in a week, and maybe in a year. Both of our spouses know what we did, and with whom we did it with. There are no longer any secrets. The novelty has worn off, but we still deeply love each other. I would never suggest anyone choose the route I chose, or the route she chose. I hope God forgives us, because behind us lies a trail of pain, and carnage. But our spouses can in no way be held harmless. I can especially attest to that in my situation. No one should go back and read my posts and waste their time, but my spouse did not respect me or treat me well. I can't say she didn't try to save things in the end, I can't even deny that she tried desperately to win me back, but I was so far emotionally removed that there was simply no way. Our marriage was already bad, and my extramarital affair demolished what remained. My family knows almost everything, and almost all of her family knows everything. We have so many complications, but honestly neither of us could keep away. Maybe stronger people would have made wiser choices, maybe stronger people would have moved faster. It's very confusing, but I do see that I was blinded by emotion when I composed many of those posts. I made so many mistakes. I am madly in love with someone who is madly in love with me, but our relationship will always be tainted, we will always have distrust, and we will always have to justify ourselves to her children, any children we have, and to ourselves. Like I said, there are no secrets, and many willing to tell our story to those we care about. Bad combination. Some things are certain: I am very happy in my current relationship and I feel alive, I never should have gotten married with the feelings I had at the time, and I am a deeply flawed person. No one has walked in our shoes, so be careful about harsh judgement. Even if I get a taste of my own medicine, or I make the same mistakes again, at least I've lived. At least I'm alive for this time of my life. I was totally dead inside, and now I'm excited to see the person I love. I've never been loved this way myself. I have a chance at it. It's been two years... a short time in the grand scheme of things, but about a year and a half longer than I've even been excited about someone before. This is worth a shot for me. I've aged 5 years in 2. I am broke. Her situation is about the same. I've been separated for a year. I will never regret leaving my old life behind. When I think of it my stomach fills with knots. Will I regret my new life? I hope not. I am in love. I am excited each morning. I'm lucky to feel this way for as long as it lasts, which I hope is forever; but I'm not ignorant to the facts. I hope those of you who are unhappy in your relationships will do something about it. I don't know if counseling works, but please try it. Don't stay together for the kids. If you can't make yourself happy within your marriage and you've been honestly trying for a year than leave it behind. All wounds will heal. I don't know if Mark Twain really said this or not, but it is often attributed to him (and I like it regardless): "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover" It's been the hardest time of my life, but I am happy. I have regrets, and made bad choices, but what choice do I have now? It's behind me, and all I can do is move on and try to learn. Two roads diverged in a wood, and I, I took the one less travelled by, And that has made all the difference.
  4. Seriously... chill out Suzie and don't talk down to her... I'm so sorry about this...
  5. It sounds like you already know what you want to do...
  6. Ahhh... so sweet. Please stay in the honeymood phase forever and give us all hope that it's possible!
  7. Wow, usually I'd say "you chose to forgive him and he's gone clean, so you need to work on forgiving him" - but CP is terrible... tough spot. I guess I'd say lay off his dad if all you've got is a gut feeling and no evidence.. I'm sorry you're in this mess... But I'd trst your gut enough not to let your kids be alone with him... it seems like it somehow runs in the family...
  8. That is so sad... please, for your kids sake - end this mess....
  9. I didn't read the posts, but it sounds like you've done your time... and even more importantly it sounds like you're ready to move on and just want some validation here. By all means friend, please improve your life and move on. When you do you'll find that she probably reacts strongly and begs for you to come back - and that will be your call at that point. Manchild gave what I consider terrible advice, but advice is just an oppinion. I suggest starting down that path and seeing where it takes you. I'm guessing you will have a much harder time starting down that path than you are saying here, you probably feel trapped. Godspeed my friend, do what makes you happy and find someone who you can love and show your kids what a wonderful relationship can look like. Do you want them growing up thinking its ok to be controlled/controlling, lazy/overworked, unappreciative/unappreciated. Well your kids will grow up and have relationships just like yours if you don't do something about it... My soon to be X father in law is old, under total control, and completely isolated because he never did anything to take back his life. If you are being honest in this post then you owe it to yourself and your kids to move on. I know I'm not a shining example of what is right and I've made soem bad choices but I feel strongly that you should start to take action on what you've probably been considering for years and years. Please do something, even if it's just baby steps, or you will be unhappy for the rest of your life...
  10. Morningstar - thank you for your comments. You are right about the unhealthy way I approach relationships. However, how can you say this (what is quoted above)? She is the one who tried to make things right by getting a divorce and ending the cheating, and she is the one who finally called it quits with me for the sake of her family. How can I possibly judge her for betraying her family when I'm the one who couldn't build up the courage to do ANYTHING? Anyway, we both made a mistake and she dealt with it a lot better than I did, at least she sought, and found, closure. I'm definitely more at fault in all of this if you look at the facts. Thanks again for your comments though.
  11. Wife went on Cymbalta on Monday, hopefully she will become a happier person - the OW left her husband and moved into an apartment, I was too slow. Lost my opportunity because she went back to her husband after 2 weeks of non-action on my part. Says she couldn't do that to her kids, but I know it was my lack of response that caused this. I couldn't bring myself to destroy another person (my wife) in time to make a difference. I'm ashamed, sad, and still want a divorce. Now I'll be divorced, depressed, excommunicated, and alone. To be honest, my primary regret at this point is not leaving sooner. The damage was already done to my marriage, and I couldn't pull the trigger. I'll try to find my way at church again, but now everyone will know, or at least think they know, what ended my marriage. Excommunications cannot be secret in a religious Mormon family - no blessings, no garments, no sacrament... don't really know what to expect. I'm in the 30-35 age group - if I want to find a nice Mormon girl how do I explain myself? Do I have to tell future relationships that I cheated? All questions I have to ask myself now. The moral of the story: Don't cheat. But if you do, and you know you might be happy, and know that you aren't happy now - pull the freakin trigger and make your move. I have few regrets in my life - I served an honorable mission, have had some great relationships, and some not so great ones, have made mostly good decisions, have never stolen anything other than this woman's heart. Now I've crushed both of our hearts. We both still work together, both have excellent jobs, college degress and beyond, great family support, and loving, supportive people around us. But we don't have love. I will never do this again, that's for certain. All I can do now is be supportive of the OW from a distance and not try to ruin what she's trying. I think that's the last decision I can make that I can feel good about in the future. I want her to find happiness at least, I don't want to screw that up. We had what is probably our last heart to heart conversation this morning, cried at each other from across a table. No hug, only a promise from her that she was closing her heart and doing this for her kids. As if that made it better. I'm just rambling, but I thought I'd post the final chaptor of my story here. This has been a terrible adventure and I thank you all for your comments. Please don't jusdge me or people who make similar mistakes. We're all people, and make decisions as best as we can - some are better than others. None of you know what it's like to be me, in my situation. Keep that in mind. I guess that's it.... ‘Do not pursue the past. Do not lose yourself in the future. The past no longer is. The future has not yet come. Looking deeply at life as it is in the very here and now, the practitioner dwells in stability and freedom. We must be diligent today. To wait until tomorrow is too late. Death comes unexpectedly. How can we bargain with it? The sage calls a person who knows how to dwell in mindfulness night and day ‘one who knows the better way to live alone.’ -Bhaddekaratta Sutta
  12. By way of update, I'll provide another post here. Everything is still crazy. I feel guilt and sorrow a lot, but I'm finally coming to the point where I realize that there is no easy way out, or good way out, or quick way out. People are going to get hurt because of me. Both the other woman and I have decided to end our marriages and give each other a "real" try. Neither of us have made that final step yet, but that is where we are. No promises. Honestly, my wife deserves an honest man who is more like her... I can't be happy with my wife, and she wouldn't be happy with me if she knew the truth. I believe I will be happy. I know many of you will be sceptical, but I'm open minded and hopeful. This whole thing has taken its toll on both the OW and me emotionally and physically, and it's time to move on. My feelings toward her haven't faded, only grown. JustAnotherGirl: thank you. Best. Post. Ever.
  13. You keep revealing more and more of this story... seriously, leave that guy, not because he's a jerk but because you don't care about each other. You can find happiness somewhere and work on yourself, and so can he.
  14. Ok, first of all visiting porn sites does not mean you are a child molester, Dove. Wow. 2 very seperate problems, 1 is a problem that maybe half of society has, the other is on the fringes of society.. wow. Rochelle - I read a lot of these posts, and it sounds like you want out. You should leave. Your husband has problems with the marriage (probably fueled by the lack of connection with you, since you aren't in love and don't love him like a romantic partner should) and you have problems with him - it sounds like you really resent how your life has gone since you married him. Do you really want to feel like you've wasted 18 years of your life instead of just 9? Or maybe your whole life? You are 32 years old. You have your children and probably some good memories. If you've been in counciling for a year and a half and still don't feel resolved about your situation, I don't see how you could stay? It's not fair to either of you. Cheating is never justified, but he probably did not feel a connection at home so he went looking... Many of the posters here will probably discount what I say because of a problem they know I have, but I guess I can say I can relate to your problem. Pray, talk to your parents, but seriously think about getting out while you are still young-ish ;-) - There are a lot of narrow minded people who have posted on here, and you don't seem particularly stable, but I know how it is to feel unstable because your mind is in turmoil. Anyway, I thought I'd throw that out there. Good luck!!
  15. Although it's a curiousity and something fun to talk about, I sortof think that possession is very very rare. I'm thinking that most, if not all possessions are mental illnesses, cries for help or attention, or crazy parents trying to justify a wayward child. I always hear anecdotal occurances that happen to "a friend's mission companion's investigater" or some other distant connection. And when the occurrances are first person experiences, the person either refuses to talk about them in the name of piety, or overplays the actual occurance. I guess I'd say that I'm sceptical at best that possession should even be considered as a possibility when noticing personality changes in people close to us. I also think SeminarySnoozer is on the right track... if possessions do happen today, it seems like they almost need to be invited in...
  16. Since it sounds like you are saying you've been possessed:confused:, and this post is about possessions and exorcisms, could you expound? You've sure got my attention. I feel like once, while I was on my mission in Asia, I came across a man who was possessed. He came into the church though, I'm not sure how that fares with our beliefs... He told me I was doing Gods work, cursed me, and tried to steal the ring a good friend and convert gave me. I told him to leave, and he did.
  17. Thank you all for your posts. Todd: I know the difference... I've felt love many times, and been in love a few times as well. MorningStar: That's just not true. I may be a horrible person, and committed horrible sins, but your comment just isn't true... Sweetpea: You are totally and completely correct. That is exactly what I should have done... but here I am. Now what?? That's what I'm asking. Your comment was very insightful. I've read other posts of yours, by the way, and I think you are a very forgiving and loving person. Good luck on your journey in life. Slamjet: How can I do what you say? I feel like I've ruined enough, I don't want to cause more pain. Our jobs bring us together every day. We both are very fortunate to have excellent jobs, and we would be stupid to throw away our careers. Maybe I should rephrase my comment like this: You say you've been there and done that, how did you "Cut off the contact with the (other) woman, period. None, zip, nada"? Thanks everyone. Even if I don't agree with your comments, I appreciate the time you spend to give your input.
  18. :confused:I've heard a number of Mormon myths about exorcism and possession, but does anyone know what either the official word from the top is on possession is, or at least what the general concensus is? How do church leaders deal with percieved possession? What is a Mormon exorcism like? Just curious - I know this isn't necessary for my salvation everyone... that's not what I'm asking.
  19. I'm glad that comes through. I am very platonically committed to my wife. Hopefully that will change if I am able to work things out. Lilac Quote: "Religious talk aside, can you and Mrs. Girlfriend ever have a good, solid relationship when it was conceinved in deceit and dishonor? Don't they say that relationships that start like yours did usually fizzle out? It's not a real is built on that erotic thrill of cheating and doing something rebellious and something that has no strings attached." I understand what you mean. I could be totally blinded by passion, but to be honest it started off as an emotional affair, and landed where it is now. I'm in love with Mrs. Girlfirend, and she is in love with me. I feel quilty stating this here, but that is an important detail... Lilac Quote: "Back to the religious talk again, Marriage is a blessing from God. IF you left your wife and really had a relationship with Mrs. Girlfriend, how would that ever be blessed? It was just wrong from the start. Could you ever get over that? Can fruit blossom from a dead tree?" I don't know. Lilac Quote: "Your note was on my mind today for whatever reason. I have a few close friends dealing with this same thing right now so maybe that is why." Thank you Lilac. The more I think and the more I flop back and forth on the issue, the more I think I just need to tell my wife the truth and see where it takes me. I can't stay here in limbo, it's going to kill me, literally. I keep thinking I want to wait and see what happens with this or that or until after this or that, but I think I need to walk into this firepit sooner than later. I certainly can't keep going on like this. I need to prepare for the worste and move forward.. Thanks again. Twort.
  20. Thank you for thinking of me Lilac. If "Mrs. Girlfriend" and I ended up together, legitimately, we would either have to stop things sexually, or see if things lead to marriage and I'd try to fix things then. That is a huge what if and not very likely, all things considered. However, I doubt the bishop's council or stake council would require that I break up with her, but I guess I don't really know. I've never been a part of a stake level disciplinary council... it sounds pretty scary to me. I guess I'll find out what it's like some day. Does anyone out there have an answer? Her kids are innocent victims, and I am their assailant. Her husband has also been hurt terribly. Because her husband is the immediate victim, I think about him a lot. Terrible. Twort
  21. Thanks for the advice - something I've thought about a lot in the past. I'm familiar with the drug and others like it. What did you mean by "been where you are got the t-shirt and kept the wife."? Did you stray? If so, could you expound on your experience and how your wife took the news? If not, what does that mean?? twort:confused:
  22. Thank you Lilac. After her husband found out we had a deep and emotional conversation where I told her I thought she should try to work things out with her husband. She had been trying but essentially told me she wants out of her marriage, as of yesterday. This whole thing is ugly, I've not known inner turmoil until these past few months.. not like this. I'm in love with someone who is off limits and married to someone who I care about and love in a very platonic way. Thank you for your advice, I know you are right. Just wanted to add: I think my wife is happy. I do my best to do what I'm supposed to do as a good husband. I'm torn between faking my feelings for her sake, or showing how I really feel. Home feels like Hell, but I feel like maybe this is what I deserve. Anyway, thank you very much for your thoughtful input. twort
  23. @Prophet - your words (this scripture) pierce me to my soul. I'm a broken person right now. I have to say, my testimony has grown very small over the years, but I feel culturally LDS and I hope my faith is true. However, regardless of faith, I know I have sinned against my wife and the other woman and her family. @Backroads - I think you are correct... I fear you are correct... I think at this point it's the "right" thing to do... But I'm not sure. @John11111 - I don't think my wife will see the bishop.. @DeborahC - I would have thought the same thing 6 months ago. At this point I can say that my former belief "once a cheater always a cheater" is not true. I know it's wrong, and I will NEVER put myself in this situation again, even if only for selfish reasons... this is horrible. The other woman is the opposite of my wife... this is problematic, actually, because our personalities are very similar. I will check the book out from the library. I never thought I'd be in this situation, but here I am. It sucks. I wish I could go back... But, I will say that no one knows my situation but me, and I know I dealt with it horribly, but I'm trying to do my best to be happy just like everyone else. Thank you all for your comments.
  24. Thank you all for your input. I appreciate it more than you might know... I'm sure you didn't sign up for this site to give people relationship advice so I appreciate your time and attention. @MormonMusic - I'm glad things worked out for you. I honestly don't think I'll ever not be upset about a divorce... I'm not the kind of person who can seperate myself from my wife's feelings, despite the lack of intimacy and feelings that a husband should have for his wife. However, the single test? I think I'm there. My wife realizes that there has been a change in my attitude lately, and has been trying, in her own way, to win me back. This makes me feel horrible... It also makes me feel obligated to stay. However, the same rules apply: ask for permission for everything, I'll probably get in trouble for even asking, and sex on her terms (rarely happens). But she is being nice, and trying to do things she knows I like. I haven't seen this side of her in a long time, so it makes me wonder if people can change??? I agree with you: no kids until things are figured out, one way or another. @Backroads - I am staying mostly out of obligation; but I do love her. If I could snap my fingers and be single I would, it's all the stuff that comes a long with seperating that causes me hesitation. I'm not sure if it could be healed. I guess if she were to change drastically, I could be happy with her. However, I am of the school that people only change for themselves, but maybe I'm just jaded from my marriage... I also doubt that any change would be a lasting change... again, probably a byproduct of my marriage. @Bert10 - Thank you for your religious perspective. I've always thought that any marriage could be salvaged if both parties lean on God. It's only now that I doubt that. it doesn't help that I hesitate to pray because of my sins... I know that is counter to everything I've been taught, and everything I've taught others, but surprisingly, I am finding it difficult to go to the God who condemns my actions. It isn't a lack of belief, but a feeling of guilt. So thank you for your input. @MorningStar - I don't ever think cheating is justified. I've done a lot of reading on boards like these and it's surprised me how much I despise the cheating spouse; yet here I am. I hate what I'm doing. As far as the other woman and the issues we'd have if we ever had a real relationship, that would be a road to be crossed if it ever came to that. We've talked about that before, and realized that there would be trust issues and we'd probably both need to do some serious soul searching to figure out why we did what we did. I was wondering if anyone had any input on how to go about things... The two possible outcomes would be to stay, and try to work it out, or to leave. If I leave, my feeling is that I don't need to complicate a seperation by telling her. I'm thinking it would only make things harder, and possibly complicate future relationships for her (increase her inate level of distrust, which is already abnormally high). I'll deal with repentance on the other end. If I stay, I know I'll need to tell her. I also know that as soon as I tell her, I'll be the focus of any and all scrutiny and it will be me needing to change. She's not a particularly stable person, and I will have hell to pay. Asking her to make changes will be almost out of the question at that point. because of this, I wonder if I should try to approach her about getting counciling and making changes for a few months BEFORE I come clean. That way I can see if we even have a marriage worth saving... Does that sound fair or just selfish? Anyway, if anyone has input on the above two scenarios, or on anything else please let me know. Again, thank you so much for your time and energy into this subject; and thanks for not being overly judgemental (at least so far!). twort