estradling75

Read/Study use the Teaching in the Savior's Way manual. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teaching-in-the-saviors-way/teaching-in-the-saviors-way?lang=eng Use the Come Follow Me Manual for Sunday School manual. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/come-follow-me/sunday-school?lang=eng Those are the official resources and responses to answer your questions. Everything else is spiritually lead adjustments the Lord will have you make as you study and plan.

Heh If Christ was limited to only working through people who were never a Jerk at some point he would not ever be able to get something done. Sadly to many people make the limitus test for the servants of God (ancient or modern) to be perfection. This is clearly not the case when we read the scriptures

Call him a jerk if you want... But his behavior perfectly fulfilled the Lord's plan. Israel needed a safe place to grow into a great nation. Then after it grew it needed the place to become hostile so they would leave. Joseph's actions in Egypt brought that about. Nothing like having a Ruler that owes you everything to make life easy for you and your descendants. Then the scriptures say a pharaoh come that "knew not Joseph.' Best guess is that there was a revolution and a new family took power. A Pharaohic line that did not see Joseph and his line as a bunch of Saviors... but as you said kind of a jerk that took everything, and thus the enslavement of Israel.

So to summarize... The legislature did not pass the law.. Being pressured to do "Something" rules and regulation are proposed. The church's mental health experts review the proposals... and find a small subset of the rules that are not supported by Science. They point them out and recommend that they be altered or changed to match current scientific understanding. The church is called hateful, and accused of supporting barbaric practices and killing youth. It is really not that hard to see what is really happening here.

It is very possible... but knowing if you can live with yourself afterward is something you might not know until you have tried it. The power of denial can be very strong when you also factor in that the Rule of Law says you are free from this responsibility. As for the children's disobedience that is a possibility. But if we are evaluating the impact on the kids we can't ignore the "We are all messed up because when we needed you most you were in jail." factor. It seems of the two extremes of possibilities the one were the parent is present is more manageable. Or the more sensible risk to take, for the well being of your children. Lets again examine the factors... The Law which could compel her is saying she is free... It is understandable if you do not like this but your only option is to work to change the UK laws and agreements so this can not happen again. Next would be fear of God. Repentance is possible... but they have to face it. Sadly the world is growing more and more anti-god every day. The UK is right out in front and the USA is not that far behind. It is understandable if you do not like this but your only real option is to work... Missionary work. Finally would be individual ethics or morality. People like to talk big about how others should "Do The Right Thing"... But when they have to pay personally the suddenly "Doing the Right Thing" looks very different. It usually looks like this in descending order of importance, "What is best for me, what is best for my family, what is best for my friends, what is best for my neighbors.. etc." This is just human nature that on the individual level ethics and morality usually take a back seat to practicality. It is understandable if you do not like this... That is one of the reason we have Laws... that is one of the reason we have Religion/God.

Agreed the right thing to do would be for her to do so... But the right thing is rarely an easy thing to do. How many of us would be willing to go to jail (for however long it might be) and be separated from our spouses and kids... When we have a much easier legal out?

I admit I do not know too much about the inter working between the governments... But I did ask you if there was a method to still hold Anne accountable. I would consider her being extradited as holding her accountable. So either we misunderstood one another, or you really do not think it is likely. All I really know is that I am very tired of the US being blamed for the failures of the UK government. If the UK can step up and get Anne through proper legal and diplomatic channels... Good for them. If they can't then the citizen of the UK need to look to their Government to chastise and correct not mine.

Except she was under diplomatic immunity when it happened you can not just wave that away because you do not like it. That was the rule of law that applied to her crime. Then the laws that applied to her changed. Its like if I eat an apple today... and tomorrow they pass a law that makes eating applies illegal. After the law passes I do not eat any apples, but someone remembers and can prove that I ate one today so I get thrown into jail anyways... Its a form of Ex post facto. As for open season that is exactly what will happen based on your suggestion. To judge a case on it merits would require the US legal system to vet the proof offer by the other country. For Britian this is about as easy as it gets (and it is still hard enough to require a judge and court). We are generally friendly, we have a lot of shared cultural and legal setup. But how do we vet North Korea? Or China or Russia? We can't so we would have to take there word for it... thus open season. We have both Diplomats (with immunity) and Extradition treaties with Britain. Both are legal constructs that both sides agreed to. And seems that per these legal constructs Anne gets away with it. It sucks but that is the rule of law. Now if the British Government wishes to negotiate a change to the existing extradition treaties to be able to extradite former diplomats(or otherwise immune) that were accused of a crime, while a diplomat(or otherwise immune) , but only come after them after their immunity ends... Well I am not a lawyer so I can not see all the ins and outs for that.. But even if you get it, it would not apply to Anne

Your mood might be improved if you stopped blaming the USA for the failures of Britain because you should have a voice in Britain, you do not in the USA. Simple fact is both Britain and the US of A have agreed to the international set up of diplomats. They did this because both countries felt it was in there best interest to do so. This means that per that agreement the only option a hosting country has to criminal actions of foreign diplomats is to kick them out. That is what happen here. Anne Sacoolas leaving the country is something Britain agreed to long before she even showed up. If you do not like this you can kick all the diplomats out and then it can not happen any more. Are you willing to have Britain pay that price? Now countries also have diplomatic and political options above and beyond this. This requires the countries to negotiate. In this case Britain has to offer the US of A something it wants. What are you going to offer? So far the only offer I see is we get to "feel good" about doing the "right thing" Really??? We should feel good about abandoning the diplomats and their families who are presumably loyal and working in our best interest... who in return reasonably expect our loyalty and protection. We should abandon this one and basically tell all our others nope we will not? In addition we should feel good about declaring open season on our diplomats? Let every country know that if you want to pressure our people all they have to do is to be able to "trump up" some crime so that we will "do the right thing" I am sure other intelligence agencies would love for us to give them that opening

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/youth/article/keep-on-the-covenant-path?lang=eng

It seems unlikely she will have a change of heart at this point So Jamie is attacking the USA and Trump when he should really be focused on the impotence of his own government... Britain used to be a power that could protect its people... and it could be again.

Indeed the case in question (Anne) the USA is not declaring her innocent and Brittan wrongly perusing her. They are saying totally unrelated circumstances are dictating answers and responses. While I understand that I still would not mind seeing justice happen. Are you seeing any options left to pursue that?

That is what I was thinking to... Which makes it subject to diplomacy and politics rather then justice. (as Anatess was saying) That is not something I prefer but given the realities of international relations I am not sure there is a better way.

@Just_A_Guy Since you are in this thread I would like your thoughts on something. I realize that it is outside your expertise but you have more then I do in this area. I saw I TV show (Yes I know not the most trusted of sources) where a diplomat committed murder. The investigators had her dead-rights (as only TV shows can) but she used her Diplomatic Immunity to get the State Department to intervene and force them to back off. In a made for TV moment (clearly) the State Department told the Investigators that while their case and facts are solid the diplomat was free to go. Then the State Department Official turned to the Diplomat and as long as she wanted to invoke her immunity she could walk but they would be sending all the facts and evidence to her country to her country for them to do with as they please. The diplomat realizing the State Department was going to hand her political enemies a 'loaded gun' that would get her thrown into a dangerous third world jail at best... So she chose to waive her immunity. My question is TV fiction aside... is having an whole different nation persecute a crime something reasonably doable?

I would be... I try to based my decisions on principles rather then emotions (I am not perfect but I do try) and your case is basically saying what we make what she did not just wrong... But more wronger... The intensity of the wrong does not change the foundational principle.

I had not considered that, but it would weight the scale on the side of protecting her.

So you are saying that Because Trump did not ask Anne Sacoolas to waive he is a bad man? My first question is how do you know he did not? Trump is a big tweeter... but he is also a tactical one. Anne Sacoolas is not attacking Trump she is not calling in to question fitness as a President. She is an American citizen that Trump is under oath to protect. She did a bad thing and then invoked legal protection. If she does not waive that Trump's duty is clear. Publicly bullying her to waive it gains him nothing in the political or diplomatic arenas. Asking her to consider waving it in a private conversation is something we will never know (unless she tells us or it becomes politically or diplomatically advantageous for Trump to say). This is in addition to the point Anatess was making that there is no politically or diplomatically advantage to revoking Anne's immunity. (there is always a bit of harm in revoking anyone's immunity, when it is done it is because the advantages outweigh the harm)

So yet again you come asking for advice here and then refuse to take it I think it is absolutely fair that you work until 22:30 and then you can't just relax... Because your definition of relax is to abandon your wife and child (Even if for just a short time). And your wife is in exactly the same boat and you are because of your schedule. Either learn to relax and enjoy yourself in the companionship of your wife. Or be miserable until your misery destroys your marriage leading you finding that attempting to be a single parent is so much worse.

In Doctrine and Covenants Section 122 the Lord talks to Joseph Smith about Trials and why they happen, why he allows them. We can learn a lot from this. The first thing we can learn is that the Lord used words like Tribulation and Perils. He did not use words like Party and Celebration. Therefore we should expect it to push us, to try us, and cost us things we hold dear. Or to use the vernacular its going to suck. As much as we might want it to be easy that is not the plan for when the Lord has Trials for us. (We also can bring Trials upon ourselves but that is a different discussion) The plan is as the Lord says in verse 7 While we might not understand the why and the whats of our Trials the Lord does and no one should expect to be able to avoid or remove the trial. It will end when the Lord has accomplished his purpose. And his purpose is listed in verse 7 above and in Abraham 3 :25 Given the Lord's reasoning and purposes we should not be Surprised when President Eyring in a recent conference said how he found about half the families he would visit would be in the middle of some kind of trial or crisis. (Remember that next time you think someone else has a perfect life) Thus we should expect such trials to happen often, they will hopefully be different, and some might last longer then others, but they will happen. Faithfulness, Obedience, Spirituality, Prayer, Scripture Study and all other standard church answers... do not get us a pass on the Trials that God has ordained for us (but they can help us through them). When we are in the middle of such a trial is normal and natural to desire as Christ did for this 'cup to pass from us.' Less commonly for us to we follow up that statement like Christ did 'Never the less not my will be done but thine' More often we want to point the finger of blame at someone. Family, Friend, The Church, etc. However it is totally unreasonable to expect anyone to be able to thwart the will of God when he has a purpose for us. The only one with any reasonable control over the duration is us and that is dependent on how quickly we accomplish the purposes of God and become proven. The best we can hope for from any Family Members, Friends, The Church, etc is the general ideas found in the expectations for baptism (Aka be willing to mourn with those that mourn, comfort those in need of comfort etc). And none of that can remove the trial. And even that can fail. After all how many of us when we feel our trials to be overwhelming and more then we can bear... when in that deepest and darkest moment feel that we can and are willing to reach out and help someone else? Not many generally. And if are unwilling to do so we have no grounds to really complain when others do not do so either. Given President Eyring's guesstimate of half that is a lot of people already struggling. For those that can or those that are currently between trials they still have there own choices to make, and if they choose to try to help, sometimes what they end up doing is the wrong thing, or its not what we want for us... or many other possibilities. None of these issue are fixable at the group or institutional level. No matter how much someone seeking to blame others might try to point their finger at them. It has to be fixed at the individual level of becoming Christ-like. The best a group or institution can do is encourage such 'becoming' while allowing all to move at whatever pace they can.

Priesthood session from Adam-ondi_Ahman?

What is too much? A purely equal split would be for two and half evening each week (not counting weekends) you take over total care of the kid and let her have/do whatever she wants. That would give you only 2 and a half evenings for your stuff. And that assumes that you have no desire to work on strengthening your marriage (which is not advised). To do that you need to spend time with your wife and maybe get a baby sitter. That would also cut into your personal time. Just about every Father on this forum understands that they do not have as much personal time as they might otherwise like because of this and considers it an acceptable sacrifice.

It is not uncommon for young couples with their first kid to struggle to balance things. For example a young father likely worked all day and when they come home from work they want to unwind and relax. This is understandable and normal.. But the young father also needs to understand that the young mother has been working all day too. Taking care of kids all day long is work, do not fool yourself in thinking it is not just because she stayed home. She very likely wants to unwind and relax. And she might be very desperate for Adult interaction. Thus by the end of the day both parents are ready for a break... but the kids still need to be cared for and both the Husband and Wife need some personal time. The couple needs to accept this and work together to find a way to balance as the needs, while realizing they will not get as much as they might like personally. This of course is just one possibility of what might be going on.

Have no hindsight view to offer... I was summarizing yours (as you gave it to us), because you wanted to discuss spirituality. Your wife's pride/fear killed your marriage and her belief in the church. (That does not mean she can't repent and later return but rather what her status is now). You are also pushing the idea that the sinful behavior was "some how" a good thing because growth happened. This however is a myopic view. You have no idea what kind of growth might have happened had the challenge been faced with Obedience, Faith, Patience, and Humility rather then Pride, Impatience and Fear.

So lets recap... Based on hindsight you think it is likely that your wife has(had) mental health issues. When she looked for help her first Bishop pretty much nailed it (Or at least that is what you are saying in retrospect) but your wife refused to accept it. (Spiritual Sin of Pride) A mental health professional recommended drugs which she rejected.. Not only the drugs which is understandable but the entire profession. (Sounds like Pride again) Then she got another Bishop who gave her what she wanted.... Validation of spirits and how to deal with them. And it did not work. This should not be a surprise if evil spirits where not the real problem. Thus because she felt she knew better then everyone else she thinks the church failed her (Again Pride) and she felt justified in leaving it all behind. Eventually she stumbles on a workable mental health fix with new age occult trappings. Sounds to me that her pride made her refuse any help the church or medical profession would offer. She had to find a fix that fit her desires rather then conforming her desires to God and Christ plan.

One should praise and acknowledge God's hand in all things. However one should not make unrighteous judgements, and that is exactly what happens when one tries to determine premortal or postmortal status based on temporal blessings. Such a judgement is very much a prideful unrighteous thing to do