estradling75

Ahh... Well from what she wrote... He asked... She answered... He accepted the answer and moved along.... She is offended about being asked... In my experience if a Bishop is concerned about a possible rebellious mindset due to the actions of a priesthood holder.... said priesthood holder gets called to repentance... Even if only on the avoid the appearance of evil charge. But the "Wear Pants to Church" movement is part of the "Women are horribly abused and mistreated at Church" movement. Therefore the fact that women have greater options and privileged then men do when it comes to wardrobe choices have to be selectively ignored. If women want to wear pants... let them wear pants. But if you want to write and article about how it is oppressive and against the churches teaching on agency to tell people what they should or should not be wearing... and then selectively ignore the largest group that gets told what they should be wearing... Well it is understandable to have your motives for writing to be questioned at that point.

Do you not remember the part where she recalls her bishop asking her a contextually relevant question? (During an Recommend Interview if her pants were part of a rebellious mindset) She used that as one of her "proofs" of the problem. And it has been discussed in this thread.

Did not the article in question complain about her bishop? Do they not want to address the problem that they are experiencing? How can you really address the issue without discussing (aka complaining) to the leadership/people in question?

I agree... Those that do make a big issue of it are being a bit selfish and short sighted... Let me show why. Take your sterotypical faithful lifetime member priesthood holder. (I'll use me) Per the arguments being made by the Wear Pants people... I have not have a choice in my Church wardrobe since I was 12 years old. Its been White Shirt, Tie, and Slacks for a few decades now. Any one that wants to complain about what they are expected to wear in church has nothing on your standard priesthood holder. And in my decades of being a priesthood holder whenever I have heard anyone complain about white shirts and ties the answer is a variation of "Suck it up and get to work" (Either that or nothing at all) So equality would demand that they get responded to in the same manner... Yet when we do the Wear Pants people melt down entirely. So whoever whenever wants to complain to their leadership about a lack of support for different wardrobe options... Remember who you are talking to and the restrictions they are under.

And how would that show the competence of government? You are claiming the government to not only being incompetent... but severely so... I have no argument there. As for it being a secret combination it very likely is... But to act against it we need facts... not conspiracy theories

This article appears to be trying to persuade people to a view point, however due to multiple failures to critically examine the ramifications of its own postulate it comes off as biased and full of privilege. Thus as a persuasive argument this article fails. It preaches to the choir and everyone else is ignored and unmoved.

@Just_A_Guy covered it pretty well. But should it turn out that the government builds other cases and then pulls Epstein out of hiding as a star witness I'd be totally shocked at the level of foresight and competence of the government. But nothing in my experience points to that as being a reasonable expectation of the government at this point

I would argue that it is not better... but rather worse... We had people getting neglected.... and now we have people getting neglected and the government taking our money.

Indeed lots of people do not have plans for retirement. This is not a new problem... It is a old problem... so old that and so scary that the voters empowered the government to "fix it". This is how we got Social Security. All the government did was get a death grip on our wallets... It did not solve the problem it is still scary. Yet people still call on the government to fix it. When those of us who remember our history, who understand how government really works say no to this idea. We are called uncharitable and greedy.

Indeed... No one expect a person to share intimate details with a stranger... But in the process of gaining a fiance those details become more and more relevant. Now that marriage is being planned for they absolutely need to be known. How he might react to the news is unknown... but if it turns out poorly it is better to lose an engagement rather then a marriage.

English is hard... most days I am lucky if people understand me.

The one size fits all answer is also very generic.... Go talk to your Bishop and follow his council. There will be more things... but the nature and timing of those things will depend various personal factors

You do you... But while you are doing you.... Don't give others grief for doing them. You do not have to understand them or agree with them to not make fun of them.

Says the man that goes into great details about white water rafting. If you want to go somewhere there are faster and more effective ways then rafting... and you are excited by the challenge posed by inanimate objects. But we really do not hold that against you because bottom line is everyone needs some down time, where they push aside there normal concerns for awhile. How they choose to do that may look like foolishness to others, but if it gives that that recovery then its not really that foolish. We should tolerate their hobbies the way we would like them to tolerate ours.

Welcome to the forum. You have built your relationship on a foundation of lies, half truths or at least highly important omissions. Anything built on such a foundation will fail. At this point it is possible that your fiance, when he learns, will judge you to be untrustworthy and break it off. He will be well within his rights to do so. Now you might think that is harsh, that if he truly loved you he would love you with all your flaws... This is true... but you have never allowed him to meet the "true you with all your flaws" so how could he possibility love the true you until you let him get to know that person? All you have given him is the Hollywood myth of yourself. You have done him and you have done yourself a major disservice by not being honest. By trying to avoid the "little" pain your deceptions have set both you and him up for major heart ache.

If we value the Rule of Law... then it has to apply to "dirt-bag." In fact how truly devoted we are to the idea is shown by our willingness (or not) to apply it to the people we think are the worse. As for a conspiracy or not, the government was 'suppose to' protect him (from himself and from others). In this it is a clear failure, yet people still want the government to be responsible for even more things.

Hehe... I was just going to say that I just took the training and there wasn't really anything "new" But you are right this does seem to be much more clear. So I have taken it and now somewhere in a church database there is a little flag saying I have taken it... The cynical side of me says now the church is legally covered if I screw up at some point (which I clearly hope that I do not).. And then the more faithful side hears the cynical side and responds "And so??? That is a bad thing how?"

He was Elizabeth Smart's abductor and rapist. @Just_A_Guy is using Ed Smart's words/description of his daughters tormentor to highlight his current hypocrisy. While there are clear differences between the two cases, God only has one standard when it comes to sexual relationships. Ed is now just as much a violator of that standard as was BDM.

My wife and I will be there

Hehe I hear that. For me I have been trying to change my mindset from "What am I getting?" to "How am I serving?" And the more I think about it having 2ish hours a week where my "Service to my fellow man" is pretty well defined and I've had lots of practice with is kind of awesome.

Also note that most of our communication happens non-verbally (aka is more then the words we speak). People who can't process the non-verbal cues (or struggle with them) are generally considered to have some form of social disorder. On-line all non-verbal cues are stripped away.. leaving just the words. Keyboard courage or keyboard warriors may be nothing of the sort. They might be behaving exactly the same way... but without the non-verbal cues the words sound harsh and stark.

Indeed... The sin in this case is breaking the Law of Chasity which is simply put no fornication and no adultery. And you are right... cohabitation is not necessarily breaking the Law Chasity but it makes it so very easy and huge temptation. (Plus the whole appearance of evil thing) As you grow and learn the Gospel living the Law of Chasity is one of the things Christ will want you to do. (Missionaries will help teach this). Once you learn this for yourself... God is going to expect you to live it (To the best of your abilities). If marriage is not right (which it may not be at this time).. you might need to look to other alternatives to fulfilling God's commands. That can also be very hard, but the scriptures are very clear that once we know God's will concerning us we should not procrastinate it. We know this... which is why members will be encouraging you to move in one direction or the other. (Marriage being the most likely direction. Separating is also possible)

Welcome @Amberlee Do you understand why you are being asked to wait until marriage?

Nope we did not. Given that he clearly did not predict it either (otherwise he would have confessed that sin of his BIL along with all the others)... Well I guess he is probably feeling pretty useless himself. Add to that his clear investment in his Sister that we do not have... Well it is easier to lash out and strangers then to face the reality of your own powerlessness, impotence, and failures. For whatever flaws he accuses us of... he has to carry the guilt of having it himself.

I think we can all sympathize with someone who is trying to follow the legal process to immigrate. I think we can also all sympathize with not putting your life on hold as the process drags on (20 years wow). I also think we can all sympathize with after waiting and building the panic and desperation of being denied. (Even if maybe you did something a little foolish to trigger such denial). All that sympathy however does not mean that that the denial is racially motivated or that accusations of racism are factual. It does however reinforce the need to fix/cleanup how things are currently being handled.