Latter Days Guy

Some interesting views being shared and I can see both sides of the argument. Though I do believe that the church as a global entity should reflect the membership, and it would be nice to see some more non-native Americans in higher leadership positions. At the end of the day it is God who calls. Someone mentioned that people from first world countries are more able to meet the needs of the church because their passports are accepted in more countries, bit of a poor choice for an example, I don't see RC bishops and archbishops being denied entry to other countries just because they are from a poor nation. Nor do I put limits on Heavenly Father being able to open doors to for someone if he deems to call someone from a poorer nation either.

saw this article when I did a google news search, its an interesting read. Do you think that it makes a fair point? That the Church is now a growing global entity but is still lead by white Americans, particularly Utah born? I kind of agree that a more culturally diverse leadership would be great, but then Heavenly Father calls the person he wants. http://www.sltrib.com/home/3029168-155/commentary-mormon-church-misses-chance-to

Sounds good, but wouldn't this be a little hard to do with a new baby to take care of? Just read your post again, but this time with my glasses on! Makes more sense now that I can read it properly!

Nope, not at all. They would return to the land that would become the Palestinian state, i.e. the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Hardly their heartland, infact not even their land at all! Though at the rate of expansion of illegal Israeli settlements in the West Bank there soon won't be any viable land left for a Palestinian state.

Really? How do you get that? Or are you saying that because I don't agree with the policies of the Israeli government with regards to its handling of the peace process, the treatment of its non-Jewish residents, its blatant dis-regard for UN resolutions and international law, that that makes me ant-Semitic? Really? Clutching at straws there! Bring out the anti-Semitic card! Lets get some facts straight here, I 100% agree that Israel has a right to exist, I 100% support that right for the Jewish people to have a place to call their home. I agree that they have a right to self defense and to respond in a proportional way towards those who attack them. But I also support those same rights for the Palestinians, that they also have the right to self determination, to have a place that they can call home, to live within the boundaries of their own land. Does that make me anti-Semitic?

There are so many things like that, that kids today wouldn't have a clue about! Oh the joys of getting old!

Judas Priest, one of my favourite metal bands!

I had to LOL at the "if you no longer believe in God (or the church's doctrine) its time to leave! As our local Church of England Vicar, who is also a member of the Church of England's General Synod, has a very liberal view on God, Jesus and the bible! So far as to say its "all some nice stories to make you feel better and help you get through life kinda views"!!

So going by what this so called person states, that means Israel isn't a nation as it refuses to define its borders.

Cheap labour is cheap labour. There was a thriving africa community until the population got a bit too large for Israelis to stomach, now they are rounded up and deported. So if the Israelis aren't allowed to transfer population from Israel to the occupied territory why is there over 400,000 Israeli settlers in the West Bank? Travel from the West Bank to Gaza has nothing to do with the UN either, free movement of people was one of the agreed terms of the Oslo accords from over 20 years ago. The problem is Israel never honoured their commitments in the Oslo accords. Yes they were killed by the millions but that doesn't mean that Israel gets a blank slate to do what ever it wants. As for Israels neighbors they have offered a comprehensive peace deal since 2002, which of course Israel rejects. The basics of that deal state the following: (a) Complete withdrawal from the occupied Arab territories, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the 4 June 1967 line and the territories still occupied in southern Lebanon; (b) Attain a just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees to be agreed upon in accordance with the UN General Assembly Resolution No 194. © Accept the establishment of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since 4 June 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip with East Jerusalem as its capital. In return the Arab states will do the following: (a) Consider the Arab–Israeli conflict over, sign a peace agreement with Israel, and achieve peace for all states in the region; (b) Establish normal relations with Israel within the framework of this comprehensive peace.[2] The deal was and is still on the table, but Israel doesn't want to touch it as normalized relations with its neighbors isn't good for the cash cow that comes from playing the victim.

Nobody other than the people who were actually living on the land at the time maybe or do they not count? Israel is the local superpower, they have nothing to fear from their Arab neighbors seeing as they are the only nuclear power in the region. They have ample opportunity to negotiate for peace but squirm their way out at each and every opportunity. The only thing they are truly interested in is the establishment of the greater Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

Yes.

Would a church leader contradict two witnesses sent from God and prophesied of in scripture?

Depends, I'm talking only about the two witnesses in Revelation 11. As for them being Enoch and Elijah, this has always been the traditional view held by most Christians as to who the two witness are. Do a little google fu, its easy to find!

Are Enoch and Elijah Mormon? Are the witnesses to obey the law of the land or do what God has instructed them to do?

Those non-Jews living in Israel and even in the occupied territories are treated as 2nd class citizens, they have difficulties with travel within the country, and if they should want to leave to travel between different regions, say the West Bank and Gaza it can take a long time to get the necessary travel documentation to do so. If you want to actually leave the country, often they will find that they are not allowed back in. The harsh reality is, its not good to be a non-jew in Israel.

Just did a search and this was at the top of the list. http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/rel-christians.html And this from the National Prayer Network: http://www.truthtellers.org/hate%20crimes/proselyte.html An interesting article in USA Today: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2008-06-22-israel-missionaries_N.htm

I agree, but not because Israel will suddenly change its policy of being a Jewish state but rather by the mass conversion of Jews to Christ in the last days. From my reading of revelations 11 they will try anything to stop the two witnesses preach the Gospel but will fail, until God allows them to be killed. Their resurrection will open the floodgates of Jewish conversion to the Church.

Or maybe because they had perfectly good homes in Palestine which they could have returned to... Oh wait they couldn't because the Israeli's stole their land and gave it to European immigrants!

No, the Palestinians didn't leave their homes to attack Israel, the majority left to escape the conflict. Or are you saying they should have just stayed and been slaughtered? Have we suddenly gone back to the middle ages? Legitimate annexation of land? In that case surely Hitler had every right to march into the Rhineland, annex Austria, and invade Poland, the Netherlands, France and keep them as they were just annexing territory!

Which is why I mentioned Revelations previously, the two witnesses who are supposed to be Enoch and Elijah. I don't believe that they will be asking for permission to preach, and if the scripture passage is anything to go by they will be unable to stop them until God allows it, and then only for a few days as they are resurrected!

It will never change, Israel's policy is for a Jewish state, with only Jews as citizens. Christians are treated almost as bad as Muslims in Israel which really makes me wonder why there is such support from mainly US churches for the state of Israel.

Aren't the two witnesses in Revelations 11 sent to convert the Jews to faith in Christ?

Clearly there is still a role for the Jews in Gods future plans, but they are no longer the vehicle in which the Lord has placed his Priesthood, that now resides in the Church of Christ. I don't believe God turns his back on those who were once the chosen people of the OT, but its through the new covenant that salvation is found now, not the old.

Not really, it paints the Israelis as the innocent victims, which clearly they are not.