JimmiGerman

Thanks for your post. But what about all the laws of nature, the fundamental laws of science? Who can switch off the laws of nature? Who can cure worse injuries within seconds without breaking the fundamental ground and laws of nature of this universe, I would say without braking the "rules"? But since I have won some insights by the String Theory and due to my general interest in cosmology, that rises the question what "reality" really means or if it's only an illusion, I almost could go with that and nearly agree with you. Perhaps it would be helpful when a scientist would say s.th. about the possibility how laws of nature that seem to be incontrovertible today maybe could be exceeded by higher technology or physics? One should consider that a technology far more superior to us could accomplish things which seem actually impossible for us or only understandable from the faith aspect.

Also a journey to Alpha-Centauri or interstellar space-travel in a future far away? But woudn't it more depend on science then on faith? And what about a broken arm? Five months ago I broke my arm when I was falling down the stairs. And the arm was cured again by surgery and an implant. And if only it had been faith, I don't know if I would have stood the pains longer than three days. If really all things are done by faith, why should one torment himself by studying medicine at a university then?

"KFC"... ? The bucket of "Kentucky Fright Chicken"...?

What is eternity? Is it something that once began and will never end? Or something that has no beginning and will never end? Or something that has a beginning and will end in a billion years far beyond of our imagination or experience? For a man only a decade on Earth might become an eternity. It depends on the situation or the aspect...

. Oh, yes. But a Buddhistic monk would rather bless somebody for the Nirvana as for something else. By the way, who knows exactly what Eliza Snow was speaking to the oxen? Perhaps she frightened them or she promised them s.th. Perhaps she threatened them with landing in the cooking pot? On the other hand oxen won't come to heaven anyway, so why should they be willing to walk on even if if it's promised to them and they know it isn't true... ähmm.... okay, I forgot they were oxen without much intelligence...

Sorry, now I see the point. I forgot about the various priesthood offices within the LDS church. Actually I more wanted to relate to the missionaries, as they are Elders and thus within the Melchizedek Priesthood. I know someone who years ago received such a blessing because he was being deseased by an illness. I'm not sure if the blessing was really helpful, and than I remembered the words of Elder Holland. I remember also the Elders wanted some olive oil for the ceremony by laying on their hands, but unfortunately that evening there was no olive oil available. So they were improvising without olive oil. Maybe that's the reason why it seemingly hasn't worked perfectly... Who does know what everything is gone wrong there at the blessing ceremony. PS But the person who received the blessing is still in fairly good constitution. It hasn't gone much worse with him and who will say this already is not a success, too. PPS I forgot: there were conversation problems, too. The person affected didn't know exactly what the illness was called in English and the Elders didn't know exactly against which illness the blessing should be. As already mentioned, something might not have run perfectly that evening...

I'm not sure if I even would like to become a God. But I fear there are many who would reach out for that and they better shouldn't become a God or like a God on any account.

One cannot doubt this. On the other hand never before so many people have died on one stroke as by modern science in form of the war machinery of the first / second world war or the atom bomb... every coin has two sides... What I mean is that even if science didn't bring more blood split over differences in its interpretations it has brought many victims in another way. But nevertheless I would never deny science.

Wasn't it Joseph Smith, the prophet, talking in "DoC" about knowledge and intelligence...? I think he premonitioned science as an important element of human destiny. I deeply believe that scriptures can be revised or replenished by new revelations or new insights. Today we know a million times more things and scientific facts than the people or alchemists of the past. But we haven't lost our Christian faith. I think that God expects us to learn more about his Creation and wonderful universe to become closer to understanding his supernatural being. Perhaps he would say: "Find me", and not only by old scriptures. My credo: why should I read only in an old book when I also could read in a new book? That's why I considered to read Mormon scriptures and could define my Christian believe from a new level or plane.

Hi, Vort. Yes, I exactly mean the Melchizedek Priesthood. Why should I be talking about "Catholic priesthood" or anyone ...

I guess what he means is that one depends the other and nothing goes without the Allmighty's help and supervision. Even the placebo effect depends the will of God. That's what Traveller means, and not circles inside smaller ones or overlaping.

That's what I meant, the Melchizedek Priesthood. Not the priesthood of any other church. And in the first point I would agree with you completely (Spiritual gifts are different than having priesthood authority.)

In principal I would agree, except of the "witch doctor" and some otherwise charlatan.

I think this is what Elder Holland wanted to say.. And priests could really command an angel to attend to a sick person? Okay - but wouldn't the angel be more willing to do so if one asked him for it instead of commanding him? ...

Sorry I couldn't find it yet. Elder Holland seemingly has written and told so much. It takes a special library to find out when it was exactly and in which edition of the Liahona it was. But I'm rather sure it's not more than six years ago.

Good question. It must be years ago when the missionaries were visiting me. But I think I remember correctly it was Elder Holland writing about this topic. And I remember I gave this exemplar of the Liahona (I once got from the missionaries) to a person who once was knocking on my door for borrowing some money (for drugs of course, as he was addicted to drugs at that time). I don't have any reference to find out which year it was exactly, but it might be only a few years ago. Let me try to find out via Google.

Is it really so that a priest can heal? Or is it so that this intention also should be in harmony with God? I think that Elder Holland once has written something about this. It was to be read in the Liahona. I think that he was right by saying that a priest should be in harmony with the will of God. And he (the priest) must have the intellectual strength to internalize the suffering of the person becoming or intended to get healed and to be in that situation characterized by being very strongly mentally capable in facing God at that moment he would be speaking his blessing.

".... want to learn about their religion, rituals, and practices." In the first step it certainly would be helpful to forget what you've learned yet. Real faith is more important than knowing about rituals and practices. By the way, Paganism and Catholicism are history, like free love and LSD ... and s.th. deep in my mind makes me sure there are better things reveiled, waiting for one to reach out for... simply open your hand and your mind and return, and it will be given. O terre de nos aieux...

But I nearly forgot this thread is not the right place for making jokes. The topic and the things happened are too serious. A young man obviously has been murdered on his mission. Sometimes it might be helpful to change into humor simply to become deeply aware of a very serious manner and a terrible occurence.

Maybe. But Canada is so large and in many places French spoken. First learn French, than go to Canada. (That's what Charles de Gaulle once certainly would have advised) O Canada, terre de nos aieux...

But they are more effective! There is one joke told here in Germany and I'm trying to translate: The bell on the housedoor is ringing. The elder housewife is not so fast and cannot come to the housedoor to see who is there so quickly. It's ringing again. And one more time. Then a devastating crash is heard and the door breakes into its fragments by a strong hit against it. A friendly young man is entering and the old Lady screems: "Who are you? See what you have done, my door..." The young man answers: "Good morning, Madam. My name is Peter Schmidt from Jehova's Witnesses, 5th Dan Karate. ... lol...lol...lol

Why not at first? Greater LA has more tha 10.000.000 inhabitants, makes approx. 130 inhabitants for one missionary. Enough work to do there. And if they survive, they could be sent to other places.

And what about the people in Lost Angeles? PS... I have a brother who lives there somewhere in LA, in a suburb, as far as I remember his last address, but as we haven't been in contact for about ten years now I'm not sure if he still is even alive. Think there would be more than enough work for missionaries to do. Okay, but it's the United States, and perhaps it seems to be all right all there from your points of view. But we see it in different views from our position of the big pond.

I've read this thread and I'm feeling concerned about what has happened to the missionary. To be honest, if I had children who wanted to become missionaries in a foreign country, I would never allow them to be sent to countries like Mexico. There is a friend of mine whose mother has being killed some years ago when she was on a holiday trip in Brasil. She was shot down by a murderer and robber. It took a long time before her dead body finally was transferred to Germany / Schleswig-Holstein and buried. No, leave me alone with all that. They are not worth it. No one can guarantee for the security of a missionary in one of those countries. If you want to get into danger, go to Los Angeles. There's certainly enough to do for a missionary and his chances to survive are extraordinary higher than in Mexico, even if the air in Los Angeles is containing more lead (in form of bullets) than all water pipes in New York City.

Yes, I mean those companies you've mentioned, but not only them. I also mean secret services or under their direction agitating organisations or groups. Remember the cyber attacks against Estonia in April 2007, when nearly the whole public life there was being paralized for a certain time (banks, payment transactions, the parliament, the broadcast etc.). That was an impressing lesson on modern warfare given by an unknown but surely most effective group. In Germany we have a distinctive data and privacy protection by legal regulations. That makes things not easy if you take a view on crime investigations or tax evasion, but most people here wouldn't like to become spied out by the authorities. See what has happened here when it was played out that the NSA is collecting and making use of everyone's data and some German institutions were involved. Yes, recently I've learned from a TV reportage about those worries of the Chinese, and they are fearing those "back doors" in application software or imported kits. Industrial espionage and sabotage is another important aspect.