darrel

I agree that the Book of Mormon is a work of Fact not Fiction. The Lord promised through Joseph Smith that this work (His True Gospel) has been restored to the earth never to be taken away again. We can choose to Believe through faith as His plan suggests or we can choose to not believe and join the mass of confusing doctrines as the adversary would have us do.

Our Temple District is preparing to impliment the new family search program. I have been given access to it prior to the implimentation. You may have heard about it being implimented in various temple districts with Utah being the last to do it. It really will save a lot of steps to getting names ready for temple work. It will also virtually eliminate duplication which has been a major problem in the past. Members will be able to work their family lines to fill in missing information for Living and Dead and also merge duplicate names and information. I really like it.:) Darrel

I retired from The LDS Church Welfare organization in 1999. The welfare program was set up in 1930s to assist members and others during the depression. By receiving donations of food and other items to be available to bishops who could then assist individuals they determined needed to recieve it in the Lords way. The Welfare program of the church is established on the principle of receive according to need and work according to ability, thus minimizing the dole system that is now the standard in our government. Generations of families have lived off government welfare. Over the years the LDS welfare program has become worldwide with humatarian aid programs in all free countries and has opened many closed countries to aid. It has assisted in educational, medical, food, clothing, farming techniques and perpetual loan programs. Small loans to individuals who repay to allow additional loans to others. The Bishop is the key to welfare assistance. He is the "Judge in Israel" who determins who will receive. Our area has appointed transient Bishops who assist travelers, homeless, and non members as they feel the need.:)

I don't have the reference but Lesson 5 in the Priesthood, Relief Society manual we studied last Sunday tells us that when we truly repent and live our life as we should the veil will be taken away. I think another example of that is Zion, the City of Enoch, which was taken from this earth in righteousness.:)

The interesting thing to me is that while some struggle with the principle of tithing, it is really a lesser commandment. The law of consecration is the higher principle. We will have all things in common when the Lord institutes this principle in our lives again. I have a coworker whos family roots go back to the United Order. Those who lived it were greatly blessed and envied by those who did not.

In my opinion it is evidence that the truth af the Book of Mormon is supported by discoveries and evidences not known to Joseph Smith. I include a challenge I use in my missionary work for you to consider. You seem to be an intelligent capable person. Tell me if this describes a work of fiction.:) This is the challenge the Book of Mormon makes to the World: Produce a similar record under similar circumstances the following conditions would have to be complied with: 1. Write a history of an ancient people covering a period from 2200 B>C to 400 A.D. 2. Include the history of two distinct, separate nations along with histories of different contemporary nations or groups of people. 3. Describe their religious, economic, social, and political cultures and institutions. 4. Weave into their history the story of Jesus Christ and the pattern of Christian religion. 5. Consider yourself 23 years of age without formal school education. 6. Write this record on about 520 pages, with 500 words to each page. 7. You must never make any absurd, impossible or contradictory statements. 8. You must finish this record within 90 days and make no changes in the text. The first edition must last forever. 9. You must proclaim that this narrative is not fiction but sacred history. 10. You must invite the ablest scholars and experts to examine the text with care, to expose any flaws in it. 11. You must write this history on the basis of what you know now. 12. You must publish it in every nation to every kindred, tongue and people declaring it to be the word of God. 13. You must include within the record a marvelous and unigue promise, a way to prove the truthfulness of the book. (Moroni 10:4) 14. This record must fulfill Bible prophecies, even to the exact manner in which it shall come forth, to whom it shall be given and its purpose and accomplishments. 15. Your discription of the cultures of these peoples are not know when you bring forth the record. 16. Many of the facts, ideas and statements given as true in your record must be entirely inconsistant and in direct opposition to the prevailing beliefs of the world. 17. Thorough investigation, scientific evidence and archeological discoveries for the next 175 years must verify its claims and prove its truthfulness even to the minutest detail. 18. After 175 years of extensive analysis, no claim or statement in the book is disproven, but all are vindicated. All theories and ideas opposing its origin rise only to fall, leaving your own claim as the only possible or plausable one. 19. Internal and external evidences and prophesies must be confirmed and fulfilled in the next 175 years. 20. Fair, honest and credible witnesses must testify to the whole world that an angel from heaven appeared to them and showed them the records. That they handled the records and felt the engravings thereon. 21. You must cause the voice of the Redeemer to call out from Heaven to declare to these men that the record is true and for them to declare its truthfulness and message to the world, and cause these witnesses to do it. 22. They must bear this testimony, not for personal gain, but at geat personal sacrifice and through persecution, even to death. 23. Thousands of great scholars and intellectuals must subscribe discipleship to this record and its movements even to the point of laying down their lives. 24. Many other thousands must bear testimony that it is true because they have put the promise (Moroni 10:4) to the test and received a testimony of its truthfulness. 25. After 20 years of revilement and persecution, you must then be ready to give your own life as a testimony that the record is divine and true, and that its message of truth is from God.

That is a real shame. I firmly believe we are in the midst of a real increase in evil acts. I read a book about the second coming by Gerald Lund called "The Comming of the Lord" It was an assembly of prophesys and speeches by church leaders. It said that we will see major violance and rebellion in this country.

I heard that the brass plates were actually the temple records. Does anyone know if that is true.

I'm interested in knowing what religion we are talking about here. The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ teaches eternal principles taught by God's prophets from the beginning of the world. The Bible is not the fulness of God's teachings. We need additional witnesses to understand the truth. Otherwise we have the confusion that exists in the world today. :)

PC you have stated the primary difference between the Restored Authority to act for God and why so many churches misunderstand the True Gospel of Jesus Christ.. Evangelical Christianity has lost the true manner of calling, receiving and acting under the authority of God. Beginning with the Constantine Church and then through a fracturing and evolving of error through all the protestant movements to the present day. This is why the Gospel had to be restored to the earth in order to bring those who will listen to an understanding of the truth.

We have a wonderful Aferican American member in our area who is proclaiming the gospel to many through music and song. Has anyone ever heard of Gladis Knight.:)

Isn't it interesting that Joseph Smith was able to include a history of the Jaradite People in the Book of Ether, one of the books in the Book of Mormon, These people were very advanced in their civilization having been saved from the confounding of languages at the tower. They must have been very favored of God for him to lead them here. Hmmm How could Joseph Smith have done that? That knowledge was not available to him at the time he translated the Book of Mormon and yet more and more of the things He translated are being shown to be true. Maybe He was a true Prophet. Maybe the Book of Mormon is True. Maybe the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the Restored Gospel sent to prepare us for the Second coming. I think it is.:)

PC you have some good points from the perspective of Evangelical Christianity. However from a Restored Gospel perspective we understand that authority must be the key to interpretation when conflicts of understanding arise. Hebrews 5 tells us in verse 4 that No man is to take this honor (authority to preach) unto himself, but he be called of God as was Aaron. We understand Aaron was called By the Prophet Moses by inspirtion or revelation from God. Moses then layed his hands on Aaron and set him apart for his ministry. This shows a Prophetic authority must be present in order to minister in Gods kingdom. The restored Gospel of Jesus Christ has the full priesthood authority from God administered by a Living Prophet today. This authority was lost from the earth after Christs Apostles were killed. Those who continued to teach could not pass on the authority. The Nicean council did not set up their Christianity with the Authority of God.

Another interesting tidbit is the Research Dr. Stewart on 72languages.com has done on the Jeridites who came to this contenant from the Tower of Babal, shows them to be decendents of Ham. Ancient American magazine shows stones from the Burrows cave discoveries which show figures carved with features showing bone structure and hair styles similar to our African Amarican brothers and sisters.:)

Thank you Dee23 for your question. While serving a mission in North Carolina we had opportunities to teach African American brothers and sisters when they requested it. We never felt that we could not baptize them or they could not join the church. I have heard of many faithful members who joined before the proclimation on the priesthood who were not discouraged in their faith because of not being able to hold the priesthood. I was excited when the priesthood was extended to all worthy male members. Thank you for your being a part of this marvelous work of the restoration in the latter days.

I believe the key to understanding any scripture and the interpretation should follow the pattern of the scriptures: (2 Peter 1: 20-21) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Also we need to remember that God will provide the understanding we need through the Holy Ghost. :)

The first resurrection will take place as Christ comes to reign at the beginning of the millenium. After that the twinkling of an eye will be the time it takes to change from mortality to immortality. The exception will be those who are part of the second resurrection at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ at the time of the final judgement.:)

All things were created spiritually before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. Each of us has a spirit and a body of flesh and bones which will be separated at death and reunited again at the resurrection of all men. During the Millenial reign of Christ there will be no death but an immediate change from mortality to immortality.

My understanding about the two priesthoods is that the Higher Priesthood or the priesthood after the order of the Son of God, or Melchisedek priesthood has been on the earth from time to time from Adam, as the Lord had worthy prophets on earth to hold it. Those who hold this priesthood can officiate in spiritual ordinances when authorized by those over them. The Aaronic Priesthood or Levitical Priesthood as it is also called, is a lesser priesthood to the Melchisedek. Those who hold this priesthood have authority to officiate in temporal duties when authorized by those over them. Moses had the Higher priesthood and his first attempt to pass it on to the Israelites resulted in his breaking the first tablets because the people were not ready. The Ten commandments and the resulting Levitical ordanances are a temporal replacement Both priesthoods have a place in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We know that once again the sons of Aaron or Aaronic priesthood will be called upon to offer an offering to the Lord in righteousness during the events of the Lords second comming. The restitution of all things will take place before the Lord comes again. (Acts 3:19-21):)

My two cents worth. 1. The two creations discribed in Genesis are the Spiritual creation and then the Physical creation. 2. Dr Stewart at 72 languages.com gave a good overview of what scientest are facing. He said that through the years they have speculated and hypothysized about evolution and the big bang theory and other "theories" but have yet to firmly document the actual occurances. What has happened is that their theories have become actuallity in their minds and so in the minds of the world have become reality. Scientific theory is just that and has yet to be proven. Scriptural discription of the creation gives a view of the the way things were created and thus a leverage point for our faith when acted upon by the Holy Ghost. I agree in limited evolution or adaptation but disagree that man evolved from amoebas or apes.:)

Dale I believe your position is outside looking in. I feel your position is in the area of protestant christian tradition. My studies have given me confirmation that Baptism for the Dead and temple work were practiced by several pre-christian era Jewish groups. 1 Cor 15:29 is not condeming baptism but teaching resurrection. The reference was used to help understand that resurrection was a reality and so Baptism for the dead was a doctrinal teaching. The fact it is even referenced in the New Testiment shows that the Latter Day Restoration of all things is a reality. "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord: And he shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unto you. Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3: 19-21)

Thank you PC for your insight on the "new" forum. I confirm again that I cannot convince anyone of my belief through debate or rebuttal. Only the Holy Ghost can witness to our spirit of the truth we seek after search pondering and praying for that knowledge. I believe you and Snow and other non-lds members of this forum have a unique opportunity to have access on this forum. I am not an intellectual so I cannot "contend" at that level. I also am not a profound scriptorian so I cannot give quote for quote. But I can witness to the things I know are true through my own personal study, prayer, and application in my life, and no one can persuade otherwise.

Snow, I appreciate your offer to explain these issues from you view. I guess I feel uneasy about non-lds belief being presented as facts on this forum. I appreciate the opportunity for open discussion of the various views this fourm allows. I know Christian forums will not allow lds views posted on them without quick removal of the poster. Also Snow, it is evident that you have a firm stand on your beliefs as we do. The truth of all things is made known only through the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Ghost , whom the Lord sent. Reasonable discussion will present differing views but no one and I mean NO ONE will be Convinced of truth by Verbal Debate. In my 65 years I have received a conviction by the Spirit of the truth of the "restored" doctrines of Jesus Christ which are taught by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I firmly believe the precepts of men mingled with scripture are what most "Christian" Churches teach today. How else could so many different religions teach so many different concepts of God and Jesus Christ.

Great information the_jason, How many attended Worldwide Leadership Meeting Telecast where they presented the Proclamation on the Family in a panel discussion. Elder Packer introduced the panel. Elder Holland and Elder Oaks along with the Primary, Young Womans, and Relief Society Presidents. President Monson Closed the meeting.

Thank you for clarification on his position. I would hope when we post our opinions we should say it our opinion and not as doctrine.:)