Aphrodite

Im sorry jason i dont agree with that. I think this is the problem for a lot of members going inactive. They struggle like SS and because they cant accept the whole entire truth unquestionably, they feel they are not good enough and therefore leave. If we were taught, look, even if you dont believe it all, theres a lot of good points to go on, so just work with what you feel comfortable with-then I think a lot less people would leave the church. Its the whole BLACK AND WHITE, RIGHT OR WRONG a lot of people struggle with, including myself. Nothing is ever that simple. I think that the people you are describing are not focusing on what the atonement is all about...we are not good enough, or perfect by default...It is expected that we will fall into gross error...Christs blood makes us perfect when we live within the covenant and repent etc...I think we are taught the good points that you mention...in this church by definition and practice we are taught line upon line...nobody, and I mean nobody believes and accepts every single doctrine of this church instantly the moment they pray about The Book of Mormon and receive a testimony of its validity...it is true, that if the book is true then of course Joseph must have translated it etc, but that does not give you a testimony of everything else...that comes by living it as Jesus said...I think we (as a church in principle, not always practice)do let people work with what they are comfortable with...we don't make people go to the temple or serve in a calling or even make them believe a single principle...we invite them...if they feel guilty, which we all do at times, then that is an opportunity to change, and grow, repent, etc...Christ's blood makes us perfect when we do... SS, I know what you mean about feeling the same about other religions. I had one of my most spiritual experiences in the Vatican in Italy during a Sunday palm service. That confused me greatly at first because I had always been taught only our church is true. Now I recognise they were worshipping the same God, therefore it felt right. Some aspects of Catholisism ARE true just as some aspects of any church are true. If people worship a higher being, then there you go, they are on the right track. I like your comments above...It saddens me when I meet a Mormon who thinks we have a monopoly on truth...It was going to other churches that finally caused me to come back to this one after a three year absence...They softened my heart up a bit and chilled the anger I had misdirected at God...I went to other churches very often while on a mission in Texas, and have been to many others since...without exception, i have felt The Spirit at some point in the service, I have also felt the Spirit leave a service...One of the main jobs of The Spirit, is to testify to words that are spoken which are true...not just true words spoken within the walls of the Mormon church, but truth spoken in any church! I can't think of a single time where I didn't hear some truth in a church..."No man can confess that Jesus is The Christ, but by The Holy Ghost..." Princess I have always been told this by my Dad/leaders etc too. Unfortunately, I think that basing ones entire testimony on that logic is damaging. I personally believe the book of mormon is true. Im pretty sure it is, although I cant know for certain. Id like to think so. That to me, does not necesarilly mean that absolutely everything we have done in this church from then on is right. Everytime I have questioned things on this board about prophets behaviours in the early church, Im always told, they are just men, they are not perfect. Exactly. Whilst I believe JS did find the plates by revelation, that does not necesarilly mean everything else he did/said/taught was 100% true. That is just a fact, as Ive been told, he was not perfect, which meant he made mistakes. And he did!!! So for that reason I cannot just say, well, because he translated the plates the church is true. It is better to find out through other channels like gaining a testimony of certain things individually, rather than encompassing your entire testimony based on one prophet. Because when you do hear of things that have happened or things JS did, you start to think maybe the church isnt true. If you work on your testimony FIRST and gain a strong one, then when you find out JS did things he wasnt supposed to, its easier to accept as you think, hey was a normal bloke like anyone, not divine and certainly not perfect. I agree that basing ones entire testimony on this type of "reasoning" is precarious at best, and dangerous at worst...it is however a good starting point for someone who is struggling...If they already had a testimony of The Book of Mormon based on a spiritual witness, then they can relax a bit and not feel the need to reexamine that principle everytime they are presented with a difficult question regarding Joseph Smith, or some church doctrine, or historical tidbit...you can focus on the problem at hand and not revisit your entire testimony everytime we doubt something...A-train mentioned Jesus as the best starting point and I agree with that... I still wonder why people feel guilt becuse they have doubts however...to have doubts is the opposite of having faith and it might be seen as a wrestle with our mortal nature and our spiritual one, which is what part of this life is about...it seems to me, that if you doubt something, this is a normal mortal reaction when faced with a question we do not have an immediate answer to...but is it sinful to have doubt? I think it is if we do nothing to cast out that doubt, and we might feel guilty if we pretend, or just go through the motions...I look at doubt as something like a diagnostic tool that tells us where something isn't quite right...it identifies an area where we need more information and more faith...it gives me something I can focus on...the areas of my testimony where I have doubted the most and then overcome those doubts, are perhaps the strongest parts of my testimony... I also try not to make it a practice (not saying you do either) of examining every negative thing people have to say about the church...There is a negative spirit and atmosphere that accompanies such critical stuff, and I try to focus my time on examining things that are good, wholesome, Spirit filled and edifying rather than things that tear down and criticize...When the Spirit is with us, we learn so much faster and are so much more thoroughly convinced of things that are true, than when we hear the arguments (good or bad) of a man... The forums are a good example...when I have found myself sucked into a controversial subject where there is heated debate, offense at the tiniest infraction, and criticism where people are getting ticked off and insulting, it amazes me how quickly the Spirit departs...but think about some of those possitive threads you read here, and the difference should be apparent...When your done, you feel blessed to have read something, rather than trying to figure out how your going to respond to the latest blast... Anyway, I guess in summary, I think doubt is good when properly handled...Guilt is a good thing also when it helps us to repent and become better...where those two forces become destructive is when we wallow in them and do nothing to change it, or do not allow The Savior to help us... nice post isaac

As far as I know you will not have to repay tithing from 2 years ago, but if you and your husband decide to get your Temple Recommends again, you will have to pay tithing for at least 3 months straight, depending on your Bishop. When I started being active in the church again, I went through the same thing. I didn't pay tithing for the first couple of years. Then I decided to get a Temple Recommend. My Bishop said that I should pay tithing and meet with him every month until I get my recommend. I did this and have continued to pay my tithing. I'm not perfect and have missed a few months, but I repented and started again. Here's hoping that you and your husband resolve your issues with the church either way. Good Luck to you and your husband. Thanks Canuck. I feel relieved about that. I can always rely on you for kind, to the point, rational posts. I think you are my favourite poster

Princess you are right, we all have to start somewhere. Its where I started. But it has caused me problems because I was basing my testimony on a very small part of what the church is about. It has taken me a long time to come to the conclusion that I did in my post, but now I feel more comfortable with how I see the church. It has led to me 'downgrading' my membership I suppose, but I no longer feel the need to be 'perfect' like a lot of members do. I know Im not, I know I never will be, so Ive accepted it and feel comfortable and at peace. Some of the posts on here make me feel sad, usually from women desperate to know if they are being unfaithful by accident!! That is not the sort of pressure and guilt I want to put myself under, if I wanted that Id become a catholic. Im glad it helped you in some way. I wish Id been taught to question our beliefs more when I was younger, so I could come to my own conclusions without feeling confused and/or guilty like I did at first. Aphrodite xx

a-train, what do u mean about back tithing? Me and my other half dont pay tithing at the minute as you all know, we are struggling with the church a bit. If we one day decide to start paying again are you saying we would have to pay all the money we havent over the last two years? If so, how on earth could anyone feasibly do that? This is concerning me a bit so if anyone has an answer to that Id like to know.

At least there's no polygamy in hell! heheheh......

Im sorry jason i dont agree with that. I think this is the problem for a lot of members going inactive. They struggle like SS and because they cant accept the whole entire truth unquestionably, they feel they are not good enough and therefore leave. If we were taught, look, even if you dont believe it all, theres a lot of good points to go on, so just work with what you feel comfortable with-then I think a lot less people would leave the church. Its the whole BLACK AND WHITE, RIGHT OR WRONG a lot of people struggle with, including myself. Nothing is ever that simple. SS, I know what you mean about feeling the same about other religions. I had one of my most spiritual experiences in the Vatican in Italy during a Sunday palm service. That confused me greatly at first because I had always been taught only our church is true. Now I recognise they were worshipping the same God, therefore it felt right. Some aspects of Catholisism ARE true just as some aspects of any church are true. If people worship a higher being, then there you go, they are on the right track. Princess I have always been told this by my Dad/leaders etc too. Unfortunately, I think that basing ones entire testimony on that logic is damaging. I personally believe the book of mormon is true. Im pretty sure it is, although I cant know for certain. Id like to think so. That to me, does not necesarilly mean that absolutely everything we have done in this church from then on is right. Everytime I have questioned things on this board about prophets behaviours in the early church, Im always told, they are just men, they are not perfect. Exactly. Whilst I believe JS did find the plates by revelation, that does not necesarilly mean everything else he did/said/taught was 100% true. That is just a fact, as Ive been told, he was not perfect, which meant he made mistakes. And he did!!! So for that reason I cannot just say, well, because he translated the plates the church is true. It is better to find out through other channels like gaining a testimony of certain things individually, rather than encompassing your entire testimony based on one prophet. Because when you do hear of things that have happened or things JS did, you start to think maybe the church isnt true. If you work on your testimony FIRST and gain a strong one, then when you find out JS did things he wasnt supposed to, its easier to accept as you think, hey was a normal bloke like anyone, not divine and certainly not perfect.

Thanks for clarifying that M :) My wedding was very spiritual. Everyone said for weeks afterwards the love and the spirit that was present at our wedding. So many people were crying including me and my husband. Even my non member friends said it was unlike any other wedding they had been to before. A civil wedding does not mean the wedding is devoid of spirit and emotion. It was the most spiritual experience in my life that everyone could share in, which a temple marriage does not allow. It seems different bishops have different rules which seems unfair to me. What one could have, another can not.

I'd like to correct that. Thankfully, we have to have civil weddings in England. We had decorations in the chapel which was decorated from floor to ceiling! Practically the entire ward turned up to help us decorate it the night before. We had streamers, flowers, and ribbons on the end of each aisle, and on the pulpit plus a huge floral display. We had confetti and rose petals on the floor-It was like heaven! We had absolutely no restrictions atall. And the cultural hall was even better-it looked amazing I couldnt have been happier. Why did you have your wedding in the relief society room??? I think that what Jason says is more of an American thing. In other words, the rules are different for Americans as they can go to the temple straight away. So its made sure that civil weddings are as boring as possible to 'encourage' people to go the temple. Thank heaven its not like that here. Walking down that aisle with my Dad with everyone I care about smiling at me, looking at my gorgeous husband smiling at me from the end of the aisle was without a doubt the best moment of my entire life! Ill never forget it as long as I live. No woman should be denied that experience, as every girl is dreaming of that moment from when shes about 5 years old!! Mine didnt disappoint. I wish I could do it all over again!!!

What is secret ceremonies and whats BBW? So Im 'unrighteous' or 'unworthy' just because I actually want to feel comfortable? What a SIN!!! I'm bound to hell for daring to request comfort for the 50 odd years i have left to live on this earth, supposedly wearing garments. Someone said if you aren't 'worthy' whatever that actually means, you shouldnt wear them anyway. In my opinion I'm a worthy person in many aspects, but according to the church maybe Im not. What a great church we have telling people how 'unworthy' they are all the time making people feel like failures. So would that mean if I was 'unworthy' there would be no point in wearing them? As far as spiritual dangers goes, what do you mean? The most dangerous thing to my spirituality was the temple itself. I had no problems until I went there. I havent been back since and now my recommend has expired and I dont plan on getting another one. So, really, is there a point wearing garments atall? The only reason I wear them atall (when I do) is because my husband believes in them. Or at least, he's been scared into thinking he'll be punished or something bad will happen to him if he doesnt. So theres really no point atall. xxxxx

I would like to know where we get our ideas about caffene? I don't drink caffeine because it gives me a headache and I do not wish to rely on a substance to take care of my natural bodily energy and wakefulness cycles...I don't think it has anything to do with The Word of Wisdom(I realize you did not say that, but I am assuming that you are refering to caffene within that framework) ...I don't know of any official church doctrine on that subject...we don't partake of hot drinks which is interpreted as coffee and tea...whats in coffee and tea? Oh, caffeine, so it must be caffene we need to avoid...this makes no sense to me...Has there been an official Church doctrine on the subject of caffene?If not, then I wish people would stop taliking about it as though it is doctrine...If it is doctrine, I would be happy to know it...In the meantime, the health benefits of avoiding addiction to caffene are evident, but I am still not so sure this is church doctrine...In the meantime everyone should seek the will of the Lord on the subject for themselves... Does anyone know of an official church discussion on the subject of caffene? I utterly agree. Why people take that and profess it is doctrine ill never know. I think there is 'advice' from GBH but again only his advice. I doubt there would be a clear cut quote saying NO CAFFEINE anywhere. As you mention, theres other substances in teas and coffee besides caffeine, why doesnt anybody mention those??

Thanks for all your help guys. I appreciate you helping me out. The nearest shop is a 2 and a half hour drive. I know I'll never be happy with garments. It helps to vent it out sometimes as my hubby gets upset if i bang on about it. He says Im not humble too. He jokes my heart is black. Humility gets u nowhere. I was a molly in YWs believe it or not. I did everything right. I had no friends and all the other YW made fun of me. I cringe now to think how self righteous I was. Then I felt pathetic and alone. Im more confident now Ive got my own mind not just doing what everyone else told me to do which with hindsight i realise nmade me feel crap. Anyway, thanks again xx By the way six, they are uncomfortable. ur not a woman so u cant possibly understand how it is for women, our body shape is so different, more curves and bumps to accomodate unlike men. Just ask Canucks wife!!!

Those stories make me laugh. Im sure theres just as many where the garments didnt protect people but dp we ever hear abou those? Otherwise its a biased sample. They certainly didnt protect those poor 2 sister missionaries who were gang raped in south africa a few months ago. So wearing garments will protect physical harm from happening to me? I dont think so. As for 'not designed to be comfortable'-If you're supposed to wear something 24 hours a day for the rest of your life, do you not think they should be comfortable? Back in the day people used to make their own garments. Plus Ive heard that its not the garments themselves that matter its the marks. So why the outdated style? If the marks are that important why dont we sew them onto our own underwear like we used to? Your underwear is designed for support and hygiene needs and yet the small matter of comfort is left out when they are 'designed'. Who makes these things, people with no eyesight or feeling below their necks? garments are not sypportive or hygienic.. One pieces-The thought of them makes me laugh! Like a babies romper suit. How do u go to the loo???!! If people look at the history of garments they'll realise how relaxed the rules used to be, which tells me we could relax a little now. MadHatter, I have spoken with my bishop. He told me to read the scriptures. (This was about all my issues with the church but I brought up the garments as thats one of my main issues). He said "The Lord asks we wear the garments, you are right, its black and white'. I said, The CHURCH asks you to wear garments. So basically hes a nice man and sympathetic but he cant do anything. But thanks for the suggestion, If i hadnt already then I might have done after your suggestion. By the way, you DO have to wear them round the house. Ive read several talks that say you must not slouch round in beach wear at home or without your garments. Its 'immodest in the sight of the Lord'. In that case why are we allowed to even wash, as we have to get naked! It seems different leaders say different things which is unfair. Ill pray for the day 'the Lord' abolishes the idea!!!

Thanks so much Canuck. Its nice to know theres other people out there that feel the same as me. You're right its a lot easier for men, thats why I think myhusband has a hard time understanding why I have so much of a prolem with them. I dont adjust my garments to accommodate 'immodest' styles, I have to adjust them constantly as theyre so poorly made and uncomfortable as they are not right for my body shape. And yes I have tried every single kind going, they are all just as bad as another type. I have to spend ages smothing them down after I go to the loo other wise they leave a nasty ridge. The waist band comes upto my boobs for heavens sake! And Im not small, Im 5 6'. Its like having two elastic bands round ur knees and waist. Horrible. The sleeves are constantly bunching up so I have to keep smoothing them down. My bra straps are constantly slipping off the dry silk ones so I have to keep yanking them back up. I cant bend down if theres people behind me incase they show, I have to crouch like some old lady. (otherwise the jeans slip over the slippery garments showing ur behind. Now THATS immodest). I wake up dripping with sweat as its like being wrapped in cling film. And if its hot, they make skin itch and prickle. You assume I want to go round looking like a tart in a skirt up my bum and my boobs on display. Thats so untrue. I just want to feel COMFORTABLE again, I want to feel like me, to feel free. Even a basic t-shirt can be 'immodest' as it shows an inch of fabric near your shoulders. Canuck is right-a plain blouse can be too short on the hem so you cant bend down. Its more of a struggle to find clothes that arent 'immodest' (even tho theyre not in the first place)than you think. Ive ended up wearing jeans and t-shirts all the time as its so hard to find clothes that cover them. Or you end up layering which makes you feel like a swaddled baby. I feel so unfeminine. Oh and havent got used to wearing them. Ive been wearing them for two years and a bit now and they still as uncomfortable as they were two years ago. What do they protect you against exactly???? Your own sexuality in my opinion. Im sorry to sound bitter. But they are one of the main reasons I am struggling with the church. I wish I could find something positive to say about them but I cant! There isnt one single redeeming quality that they have. Ive tried but I feel angry with God for feeling this way because of something hes alledged to want for us. which has withered my testimony. Garments dont remind me to do whats right, they remind me Ive lost a certain amount of freedom and independance within myself. Wearing poorly made, badly fitting underwear circa 1830 does not encourage me to do right Im afraid!!!!!!!! But thanks for your efforts anyway. Im sure you mean well. I suppose its like not liking a certain food. You cant force yourself to like olives if the sight of them makes you feel nauseous. I cant force myself to like or have any desire to want to wear the garments. Thats just the way it is. *sigh* Aph xx

QUOTE(Iggy @ Sep 23 2007, 06:03 PM) QUOTE(Aphrodite @ Sep 23 2007, 11:24 AM) QUOTE I've always thought we'd be wearing white jumpsuits..liek we do for baptisms AND with garments? Thats my idea of hell!! I'm sorry you feel the wearing of garments are like being in hell. Perhaps you need to change fabrics. I think her issue has more to do with the wearing of clothing that properly covers the garment than it has to do with the fabric it is made of. Iggy none of thre fabrics are good. And the styles are crap and badly fitting and uncomfortable. And yes John it is a struggle to find clothes. Its a daily battle. It makes me so unhappy :'( I must waste so much time tweaking pinching pulling tucking and unrolling, and shopping takes forever now. Im sure I could be doing much more worthwhile things with my time. Oh well, I suppose I havent yet accepted Heavenly Father wants me to be a sweaty, uncomfortable, unhappy, looking and feeling crap woman to get into the celestial kingdom. I have a hard time with that, I would have hoped He would want me to be happy. Ive obviously got learning to do.

Thanks a-train-maybe I should have asked this question earlier as I personally dont see any immediate blessings. I know what we're promised but thats different. Maybe it would help if i could physically focus on or see blessings that I could work towards rather than 'when I die' which to me I cant even fathom anyway. Aph xx

AND with garments? Thats my idea of hell!!

GAIA: Hello Aphrodite -- It's great to meet a sister Goddess I was taught (at BYU) that the Endowment is exactly what the term says, an "endowment" of added spiritual power and authority from God, given in the (LDS) Temple, to both men and women. I think one of the problems that some people have with the temple is that generally, LDS worship does not have a lot of symbolism or ritual (compared with other religions, especially); and the Temple is a symbol-and-ritual RICH environment/ experience, so many are confused, bewildered, or even troubled by the experience at first. They just don't know how to "take" it. THE GOSPEL PLAN: Actually, the entire Gospel is a plan whereby the children of God receive -- and then extend to others (beginning with their own biological children) -- the powers, gifts, blessings, challenges, responsibilities and opportunities of *LIFE* -- in various forms and stages: first, physical life; then Spiritual Life, and finally, Eternal Life. All along the way, there are "Parents" who help "facilitate" or administer each stage of Life -- with its attendant powers, blessings, obligations, responsibilities, etc -- to their children. THAT, essentially, is (what i was taught as) the MEANING and Purpose of Priesthood. We begin as Intelligence; Heavenly Mother and Father "organize" that intelligence and give it Spirit Birth, which affords new aspects and qualities of life. Then we are born into mortality by our biological Mother and Father, and through them we receive new aspects and qualities of (mortal) life. Then through the Gospel, we are "Born Again" as sons or daughters of Jesus Christ (and our MOther in Spriitual Rebirth, the Church) -- through whom we receive yet more and new qualities and aspects of Life. When we're ready, we prepare to go to the Temple for an "ENDOWMENT" of yet more qualities, aspects, and powers of *Eternal Life* . The Bible and modern revelation say that in the Kingdom of God, men will rule (under Christ) as "Kings and Priests" and women will rule (again, under Christ) as "Queens and Priestesses" . A King or Queen is one who administers *temporal* blessings to others; a Priest or Priestess is one who administers *spiritual* blessings to others. So, i would say that the Endowment is a *ritual* in which this spiritual authority and power to become a King and Priest, or Queen and Priestess, are given *conditionally* -- that is, depending upon one's continued faithfulness -- to the Gospel plan in general, and to the Endowment covenants, specifically. RE: COVENANTS: Remember that in the Gospel, "covenants" are contractual promises which have two sides: the side of the individual -- what s/he is responsible for, and what s/he receives as a result; and the 'side" of God: what He is responsible for, and what He is to receive, as a result. Now about those covenants: they are generally found in the scriptures and Gospel teachings, but they are considered sacred, and you will not be told what they are *specifically*, until you are in the Temple, where they can be explained and where one is put under covenant to keep them sacred --- RE GARMENTS: The Temple Garments are a physical representation, symbol and reminder of those Temple covenants that are made, at the time one receives the Endowment. The garments have special "markings" which are symbolic of the covenants, and are themselves considered sacred. NOTE: it's NOT the garments which are sacred, rather it's the *markings* and what they SYMBOLIZE. Therefore, one should treat the garments with respect. Interestingly, there is evidence for ancient Garments: (Exodus 28:2-3.) 2 And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. 3 And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. (Exodus 29:29.) 29 ¶ And the holy garments of Aaron shall be his sons' after him, to be anointed therein, and to be consecrated in them. (Exodus 40:13.) 13 And thou shalt put upon Aaron the holy garments, and anoint him, and sanctify him; that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. When garments grow old and no longer useable, one should remove the markings (cutting them or burning them off is the usual method) and destroy them (again, burning is the usual method); and then the garments themselves revert to normal "clothing" and are no longer considered sacred. HOWEVER --Unfortunately, since many old garments have been found at Thrift Stores, and subsequently inappropriately used by those intending to embarrass and humiliate the Church, it's probably best to be careful about disposing of the entire garment. Some good Resources on the Temple: - Allen H. Barber. Celestial Symbols: Symbolism in Doctrine, Religious Traditions and Temple Architecture, Bountiful: Horizon, 1990, ISBN 0-88290-344-6 - Paul Thomas Smith & Matthew B. Brown. Symbols in Stone: Symbolism on the Early Temples of the Restoration, American Fork: Covenant, 1997, ISBN 1-57734-134-1 - Todd Compton, "The Handclasp and Embrace as Tokens of Recognition," in By Study and Also by Faith: Essays in Honor of Hugh W. Nibley on the Occasion of His Eightieth Birthday, 27 March 1990, John M. Lundquist and Stephen D. Ricks, eds., 2 vols. (Salt Lake City and Provo: Deseret Book Co., Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 1990), 1: 620 - 631.). I HOpe that is helpful -- let me know, ok? Blessings -- ~Gaia It is nice to meet a fellow goddess Thanks for your reply. Like sixpacktr, you say it is increased spirituality. What else? Your reply was very well worded and structered and you seem very knowledgable. Im going to PM you as I dont trust my comments on here with certain people reading them. As christians you'd think people will help. Most do but theres the odd few that get in there and start being all high and mighty and self righteous(qualitues I loathe and Im sure the Lod does aswell) so I wont post on here. Aph xxx

So, can I ask those of you who have been to the temple what these wonderful blessings are? I always hear people say oh you get so many blessings going to the temple. Like what? I'm curious to know what they are as Ive been to the temple and I dont see any blessings. It has caused more problems for me than I could have ever imagined by going. So, if people could tell me what blessings they feel they have receieved by going to the temple??

Sibeluver-Didnt you post a few problems you were having with your husband a little while ago? About racing around in his car and stuff? Do you think he's ready to be a Father? Are those issues resolved? More things to think about xx

Tara, Obviously at the end of the day, this decision is between you and your husband. However, as I am a similar age and point of life as you, Ill give you my opinion/advice. I married at 22 which is still young, but I knew it was right and I felt ready. When you get married you feel older than you are. Well I do anyway. So now Im 24 and we've been married a couple of years it feels like time is marching on. My husband is like, isn't it time we thought about children? As we've been married 2 years he feels its time for kids, and the longer we leave it-the longer it is! lol, am I making sense? I was applying to uni at this time for my degree and I said, but I want my education, its soooo important. But I did really think about it. I felt broody too, what woman doesnt? Its a natural way to feel. It doesnt necesarilly mean have a baby right here and now because Im getting these feelings. Listening to what you say-you are just a baby yourself! Darling 20 years old. At 20 although married you should be getting your education, having fun with your husband, establishing a home, making plans for the future and looking forward to the rest of your lives. Jason is right. Why would you choose to not get an education and have more financial burdens just to have a baby NOW rather than in a few years? (which by the way is not as long as you think, it really isnt). If you dont get your education now while you have the chance, when your mind is young and fresh and you dont have the responsibilities kids bring, you will regret it for the rest of your life. If you wait 3 or 4 years to have a baby, do you think you'll look back with much regret and think, 'oh! I soooo wish Id had a baby four years ago!'. I doubt it. You will look back and treasure and cherish the time you and your husband had as a young couple and be glad you waited. As for that article about the bishop saying not to wait-In my opinion that is totally irresponsible advice. Surely its better to plan, work towards a reasonable financial situation, finish your education and move on with the next stage of your life-babies if thats what you want. To try and do everything at once-its silly and wrong for a bishop to tell anyone that-do it all at once!!! Why make life harder for yourself than you need to? Of course, you cant plan for financial disaster. but in my opinion, thats not a reason to have a baby because 'anything could happen anytime, anyway'. If thats the case, then, get your education, have a decent paying job you can do, and your husband, so that you can afford reasonable housing and a reasonable standard of living. This is what I always think: What if something happened to my husband in the future and I had to support a family? Id need a career to do that, it would make life so much more difficult if I was working at Macdonalds. What if your husband is made redundant and cant find another job? You might have to take your turn to support the family. What if your husband has an accident that leaves him out of action for a period of time, or God forbid, unable to work atall?? What if you cant have children? It can take a long time to adopt if thats the route you choose. What will you do in the meantime? So theres many things that could, and do, happen. From my own experience planning as best you can for the future is paramount. If you do all this, and wait to have a baby and something does happen, at least you can say to yourself, well, I know Ive done all I can to be best prepared for this situation. If you dont, have a baby and drop out of college and something happens, you'll be saying to yourself, 'why oh why oh why didnt I wait, and finish my degree??' You will have regret. Basically, you have nothing to lose by waiting to have a baby. Nothing atall, and everything to gain. You will look forward to having children and be even more excited when the time comes. You look back at your life and think how sucessful you were to get your degree and establish a career. The children you raised, the lessons you can pass on to them. You have much to lose by having a baby too soon. You lose your education, your freedom very young, financial freedom, and the chance to be a carefree young couple in love with their whole lives in front of them. I think you sound like a really sweet person. I would urge you to think on this extremely carefully. I dont think you are ignorant to what a baby involves, but until you have children no one knows whats involved. My Dad likens having a baby to a bomb being dropped into the middle of your lives. You wont ever sleep. Youll be tired constantly. Youll lose interest in sex, youll have no money, no time for yourself or your husband. You wont be able to just pop out with your hubby, youll have a baby at home. Your life as it is now, will cease to exist. It will be a hard slog. Think are you really ready for that?? Ive had dreams about things too. I dont think they necesarilly mean anything-they mean what you want them to mean. Of course you will have good feelings about having children. It is right, its the right thing to do. But maybe just not yet. Make it the right place the right time-make sure it is for you. One final thing-Most people Ive met who have had children young have told me they wished they had waited just a few more years. They love their kids to bits and wouldnt change them-but they wish they'd waited. I dont think Ive ever met anybody who has wished they had kids earlier. Think about that. Maybe ask people you know who have had kids young if they would have done anything different. Ultimately its upto you, but I would hate to see you struggling and regretful as you seem like a lovely person. I hope Ive brought up enough points for you to think on and consider. Let us know what you decide!!! Aphrodite

I was at home with my Dad as we both had the flu. As he was watching a film, I went into the other room to put 'Neighbours' on as it was 1.40. Instead of Neighbours there was a picture of a building with smoke coming out of it. I was like, what? I shouted to my Dad to put on BBC1 as I didnt really get what was happening. As I listened I thought, this is weird, how can a plane just hit a building like that? So me and my Dad sat watching it and then we saw the second plane hit and we knew then it was terrorists. As Winnie said, I remember thinking, this is a turning point in our world and history, life wont be quite the same again. Watching those towers collapse just broke my heart, my Dad and I sat in tears. The next day the papers were only on the WTC, from front to back, no sport or anything. Looking at those pictures of people falling from the buildings and jumping, made me cry even more, we cant comprehend such a dreadful situation-burn to death or jump. I stood up for the two minutes silence the following day, alone in my front room, and I cried for all those people. It was just so terrible. I'll never forget that day. I watched Farenheit 9/11 on Monday, my husband has been trying to get me to watch it for ages. I was shocked and disgusted at Bush's connections with Al-Qaeda and his actions over 9/11. My husband and I both wondered, who on earth would have chosen to vote him back in for a second term???? The man's got blood on his hands, in my eyes he's no better than a murderer. It was truly shocking.

I struggled to know what I wanted to do at school. I absolutely loved history and thought about being an archaeologist. But I realised I wasnt cut out for it really. I did all the subjects I liked for A-level, English, classical civilisation, Greek and psychology. Towards the end of my A levels I was still no closer to deciding what to apply for at uni. So I decided to take a year out to think about it some more. I had worked part time at a nursing home since I was 15, and I began to work full time there. It was in that year I decided care work was really where my heart was at, and I wanted more from it. At first I thought about midwifery and applied for that. I didnt get in, and realised it was because nursing was really more suited to me. So I did nursing. I've never looked back, its the best career in the world!!!

Yes I do! The Prophet has never met me, he doesnt know me or my situation. In fact, he doesnt know most of the 12 million members. Thats what I cant take about the church-we're given rules and regs that we all are supposed to adhere to-that doesnt make sense. In a university, an essay on light waves is not given to the15k+ students there. It is only given to those studying physics. It is not appropriate for it to be given to someone studying art! Thats why its an ineffective system for the prophet to say, do X without knowing every individual circumstance,it just wont work because everybody is different in different places and times of their lives. We're all lumped in the same group and told to do the same thing as someone in a different country at a different stage of life. Im not saying some things are universal like praying reading the scriptures or whatever. But things like appearance, hobbies, lifestyle-No, it is no ones place to tell you how to do these things. We're all suppoosed to be walking clones, wearing the same stuff, looking the same, saying the same things. The church swallows up your identity, well it does mine, as all the ways I like to express myself are 'not allowed', which if I followed them, would make me opressed and miserable. Just as well I dont.

I dont care how you interpret it, Snow. 'Just expressing my opinion.'

Im sure most people feel the same about snow. To have to come online to be nasty to strangers and make derogative comments and then say 'im just expressing my opinion' is like a kid shoving another in the playground and saying, 'I can do what I like'. Its quite sad and quite pathetic, and as snow is one of the top posters here just goes to show what sort of life he must have-mostly stuck in front of a computer instead of having a real life. Snow seems bitter about life in general, and bitter people give out an ugly vibe. When I see snow's name on a post I automatically think 'ugly'. Incidentally, the people on this site who have helped me the most are non-members. What a great example Snow is setting as an LDS thats all I can say.