Aphrodite

Why does he want to get divorced because he doesnt want to live by the church's standards? Cant he stay married to you and not go to church? I know plenty of couples who have had one of them go inactive and they stay happily married. Im sure you would prefer to have your husband as inactive than no husband atall. Has he given you any other reaons why he wants a divorce?

I havent thought about what I like about the church for a long long time. I can think about what I dont like as there's a lot. So this has made me think. I suppose I like the fact that there's always someone you can go to for help or support or friendship if you need it. You're never alone.

Simon, I think you have come accross very well in your posts and ur right-it is getting a little preachy. Unfortunately, that is the way of the church a lot of the time. People WILL judge you if you dont follow the general mainstream of thought. Sad really in a christian church. You do respect our beliefs. You have come accross in a very respectful way. Some church members dont feel they need to do that because 'they're right'. Im sure you do everything responsibly. In fact, a recent study (in the paper yesterday) shows that teetotallers are MORE likely to have heart disease than those who drink in moderation. So drinking something is better than nothing. Of course, members will argue that we have no self control in our drinking/swearing/bad habits and if we were allowed to drink, we'd all become raging alcoholics. I find that insulting to a degree, I know Im more than capable of being in control of my own life and habits. You have a sensible attitude-You have the RIGHT attitude. PM me if you want, as some of the things you said in your earlier posts struck a chord with me, and Id be interested in discussing them further. I wont discuss them out here because then the righteous brigade will start getting all 'preachy' as you say, and it will turn in to a bible bashing session

lol I didnt mean you pale :)

Thanks to the last four posters. Great advice I'll think on it. Pushka, he does have self esteem problems which is hard for me to understand because a) he's perfect and B) I am a confident extrovert and cant understand low self esteem. This was my line of thinking, its more how he percieves things than a real actual problem, thats why I wanted others view of the situation. So thanks :)

Canuck, in future when I have any questions or problems I think I might just pm you directly and boycott the boards to avoid stupid answers as you always talk sense. If only all members were like you

a-train, you think this is about money??? You must have read the post all wrong. It's got absolutely nothing to do with money. And if his Dad was a trillionaire, yes I would still worry about it as the last part of my post indicated, it may not necesarilly be just work. Its about his own hapiness at work, and how he can deal with it, and how I can support him. Im not hounding him or pecking him or giving shock, horror, advice, I am concerned about him and how his work might be affecting his life in other ways. Trust a man to immediately think the woman's main concerns come back to money. I only told him to ask for a pay rise as he's been given extra responsibilities, therefore his wages should reflect that. Its not because, oh Im a woman and its never enough for me, i want more. Im upset you think I'm that shallow a-train. My hubby is putting me through university so I can qualify as a nurse. Do you think if I wanted money I'd become a nurse??? That says I want to care for people and couldnt give a toss about money or material possesions. What matters to me is me and my husbands own personal happiness and fulfilment, thats why I posted this post.

Elphaba, you have it spot on. It is a set up. They prey on his good nature. The trouble is, if he refuses, they could sack him, if he takes it, he gets crap. Hes just told me he's been moved to another job on his own anyway so hes not the foreman there.

It depends on who it is. Theres a few people in the ward I cant stand and certainly wouldnt want to get caught up in conversation with. One time, me and hubby saw this particular couple (hes now the bishop) and we ran and hid behind one of the shelves in the supermarket so they didnt see us! They are nice people, but once they start talking, kiss goodbye to the rest of your day. They never stop, and we just did not want to spend 2 hours in the supermarket talking to them. haha.

lol moksha a-train-I didnt really understand the scripture but nevermind

He runs a particular job, like he orders the paint, delegates people certain areas to work. In his last job he did have the power to hire and fire but this one he doesnt. Apparantly the main boss thinks the sun shines out of this particular blokes backside and wont have him fired. I keep telling him he's a dogsbody not a foreman. He didnt even get a pay rise. Ive told him to ask for one in the new year. Its a good point though, Ill have to ask him what the deal is with that.

Ok this is another thing I wonder what you all think. Me and hubby both go to church most of the time but basically are not living it. The other Sunday night hubby was hungry so we ordered a pizza. While he was eating it (I dont eat pizza) theres a knock at the door. Faster than a bullet out of a gun he snaps off the tv and shoots upstairs with the pizza box. The knock at the door was somebody leaving us a secret hamper for christmas which was lovely. But I got mad at him. I said, why lie and pretend you're this perfect member? Who cares if we're watching tv or having pizza on a Sunday? He even does it with his Mum. I say to him, if you want to do it, do it, and dont feel you have to hide it. He tries to hide things that he doesnt feel other members will accept or something, wheras I say, who are you living your life for, them or you?? He'll say, quick, hide that coke bottle if his Mum is coming round or something which I think is pathetic, just because they dont drink it. What do u all think?

This isn't church related but thought I could get some other peoples opinions on this. My hubby's a painter and decorator and therefore spends a lot of time on building sites, where as you know, a lot of very rough and ready people work. People who have been in prison, they all take drugs, etc etc. Obviously he is different. He has integrity, is honest and upfront and works really hard. The past year or so, every job he's been on has ended badly. Usually he starts really well. The last two jobs he's been on he's been made a foreman within days as the bosses realise they've got somene thay can trust. Unfortunately, this leads to trouble for Rob. He gets basically bullied, called names, people make trouble for him, and constantly get at him. They use his tools without asking and when he challenges them, they say things like, 'oh look at rob whining, why dont you tell the boss?' and stuff like that and its really getting him down. He's starting to think there's something wrong with him. Hes even talking about changing careers but when I mention it he says he cant do anything else as it wont earn enough so he has to stay. The other thing is, I think he does get a little paranoid. He'll mention things I dont even consider. Like, if we go round to my mums he'll say, oh did you hear Mum say this, she was obviously meaning me. Or, did you see the way she looked at your auntie when I said that? I dont know whether to believe him or think he's paranoid because he can be oversensitive to things. So this makes me think, is it the same situation at work, does he interpret things wrongly? This never happens to me or anyone else I know. My Dad has had similar problems in the past but has overcome them. He does love being a decorator, its all the crap that he's been getting of late. He's not been sleeping and our lives seems like a constant conveyor belt. He hasnt had a holiday since our honeymoon because as he's self employed he cant afford time off. Does anyone have any ideas how this situation can be bettered? Its got to a point where I actually dont know what to say or how to deal with it. If anyones got any tips on this I'd appreciate it. Cheers x

Life is fanastic!!

This is a very interesting topic. At first. the nail and ribbon seemed a bit like, woah. But now I have read the posts I think, actually, its quite an original idea. People should know about christs suffering, including children. Its important. Not just THAT he died but HOW he died is important too. As for the cross debate..Im with CK on this. I dont see what the big deal is. I have a cross and I wear it sometimes. To me it symbolises my christianity. My brothers girlfriend bought it for me so I wear it as it was a gift, and very thoughtful of her as she knows I go to church. It actually feels good to wear it, and it DOES make me remember who I am and what I am-a christian. If only we were to wear a cross instead of garments. Much nicer and a much better way to remember. You can put your hands on it and feel it-its comforting and it really brings you to mind about the atonement and what christ did for us. I personally am all for the cross. And no I dont believe its the same as revering a gun that killed your mother or whatever. That is a ridiculous comparison. Christ's death was specific and for a reason, and the cross has been a symbol of christianity for centuries. I think the only reason we're not supposed to wear the cross (tho where it says that Id be interested to see-in the scriptures??? I dont think so) is to make us look different from all the other christian churches. I think we should blend more and wear the cross to unite us with our christian counterparts. we're accused of not being christian enough. A cross would put paid to all that.

Thanks Crimson

I'm quite shocked at the immediately judemental responses of you lot. Fair enough, he probably wasn't looking to be baptised, but how would you know? No one bothered to ask. Ben Raines immediately got on the defense, Bro Dorsey was sarcastic and CK made assumptions. No wonder he hasnt re-posted. Maybe he really wanted to know the answer! If one of your friends came upto you and said, mate, these contradictions have been bugging me for some time, can u explain? Would u be sarcastic or make fun of him and drive him away? The OP didnt sound aggressive or argumentative in any way. Its sounds like he had questions. Congrats once again guys for displaying the 'I-am-holier-than-thou-you-ignorant-questioning-heathen' attitude.

Who said i am not happy with who I am? But i know it is not by my own strength that I have done it...and they are not my achievements. I didn't do it alone...ever. It is because I realize how frail I am that I love myself so much. Why did i say all this, because I didn't want him to expect others nor himself to be perfect over night. I thank you for the opportunity you have given me to explain myself further. Our job, and the example the prophets have set forth is one of self examination....Seeing our weakness, and taking it to one who is mighty to save. It is only then that we become pure in heart. We all know the promise to those that are pure in heart..... When this promise is fulfilled, we do not care so much about our little achievements, but we know that the Lord approves of the little we can offer him, even though we are weak. Last conference at least 3 speakers spoke of having a broken heart... How the Lord requires that we possess a broken heart to follow Him. One even said that we need this constantly....Like he explained, it does not mean we are miserable, but happy and joyous. But we know in whom we have trusted, and we know that where we are weak, He is strong. Can a broken horse be happy? Yes, of course. It just has become more submissive, and will follow directions of someone with a better view. Hmm its interesting to view yourself like that. thanks for explaining. I think a lot of people put an intense amount of pressure on themselves to be 'perfect' as thats what the church is teaching. Its not a healthy way to be a perfectionist. My brother in law is really into the church and feels he has to be 'perfect' in everything. If he isnt, he gets really really stressed, so much so that hes on strong medications to control these feelings. Hes basically not happy. My Mother in law is the same. Not a good way to be. To a point thats how i felt when i was a teenage, and the other side of that was looking at people who were still trying, and perceiving them as weak and 'sinners'. It breeds self righteousness, i see it all the time in every ward I go to. Those who feel they are perfect and who look down on the other members for not being as good as them. Im not sure Ive come across that attitude anywhere else other than the church which is why the whole 'perfection' and 'sinners' theory really doesnt work for me. I feel happier and freer knowing I am actually a good person and not a weak and feeble sinner. Ive literally had to keep telling myself Carrie, YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!" because i felt how you said for so long and saw myself as less of who I really am. But if ure happy with that then i suppose its your choice :)

I prefer to be called a christian. Whats a restorationist when its at home????

I am really gonna try and not be negative here-But Tiancum you have summed up why I have felt the need to 'tone down my membership' as it were. That we are all supposed to be 'weak' and 'simple' and 'sinners'. Its just awful!! I thought the gospel is supposed to make us happy? (well obviously supposed is the objective word here as it didnt make me happy in the end) Why not look for the good in ourselves? Recognise our achievements? Feel happy with who we are and the effort we're making? I just wondered why you felt the need to characterise members as such especially to Nicka. Is that how you feel about yourself, and how you view other members? If you do, I think thats actually really sad

yeah but Jason, praying just isnt enough for people with very specific questions who arent members. Its not enough for me, and even I cant get answers to some of my questions because Im hit with the auto-mormon responses that do nothing to help me....oh just have faith, pray about it..u'll find out in the next life...thats just not enough and it wont be for Andy's friend either. I wholly agree on what he says, you cant just base your entire faith on a feeling. I agree with previous responses-find a really knowledgable or scholarly person to answer his questions-and make sure it is someone OPEN MINDED who wont offend your friend.

mike, the reason people seem to be against you is because most people on this site are older than you and have had similar experiences and dont want you to go through any heartache. Thats all. Im 24 so not too far from being 17. All I can say is, when I was 17, I thought I was grown up and mature enough to make my own decisions. Looking back now, only 7 years later, I want to die at some of the things I said and did. Yes, everyone is unique-I thought I was different and unique at 17. Now I realise I wasn't!! Just like every other 17 year old. I never realised how valuable hindsight is. People change with age. YOU will change and your girlfriend will change. You wont be able to imagine things being any different to how they are now. But they will be. Thats not my opinion, thats just a fact of life. Of course you will still love each other, but what everyone is saying is, change is inevitable and because you are so young, you dont have as much life experience to deal with something like that as well. I hope you dont feel Im patronizing you, but do you see what Im saying? I actually knew my husband when I was 16 and he was 19. I thought he was a stupid, immature boy. He mucked around in classes at church, made rude noises during church, laughed and hit his friends during sacrament. I remember thinking, ugh soooooooo immature. He then went on a mission and grew up big time. Im now married to him. He changed. I would never have married him at that age, he is a completely different person now to what he was then. And that is typical of most people. I used to scoff at older peoples advice, but now I value it. Most people have told me, oh yes get your career FIRST then have kids, I regretted rushing into it, its hard work, go to uni FIRST. When I was 17, I would have thought, phh what do you know, this is what I want. Now, I klnow they've been there and I really respect their opinions and value thir advice because I know they know what its like. If you and your girlfriend are going to be together forever, prove to her parents you can wait for her and them to be ready. like people said, the parents are only freaking out because they want what is best for their daughter. It IS normal! Good luck to you.

Im staggered by his parents reactions too. Do they not care about their son's happiness or agency? I agree with Prison Chaplain. Jia, I think you are putting far too much importance on getting your husband to church. The tone of your post seems quite desperate so this must be coming across to your husband which is probably making him feel under enormous pressure. He says he likes his free Sundays and occasional beer and feels uncomfortable at church. Why would want to force him to go somewhere he doesnt feel comfortable? If he's happy then why can't you be? Im sure you're a great person and I dont mean this nastily, but your motives for wanting him to go to church seem a little selfish. You say you're embarrassed which says to me you're more worried about what the members think of you than your husbands choices. Who cares what the members think? What matters is you and your husband. You say you're happy for him to come back in his own time. What if he never comes back? You have to be realistic. Will you be living anxiously waiting for him to come back to church his whole life? This might be the situation forever. You need to get on and be happy. Throw yourself into church if thats what you want, dont wait for your husband. Good luck to you. Aphrodite

Ruabien, this is half the reason I have stopped believeing a lot of what Im told in the church. Prophets have said so many conflicting things to each other over the years even tho its supposed to be 'revelation'. When I question this Im told, 'oh they're a product of their time, that was years ago,' yet if they say something somebody likes, its used as, 'well, if SWK said it....we must obey' yet if its contraversial its put down to being years ago and not relevant anymore. Double standards. I thought God was supposed to be the same yesterday today and forever? He doesnt go with the times he has his own agenda. So it seems to me a big coincidence that prophets more than 30 years ago are less racially tolerant than perhaps GBH is. Thats because its THEM saying it, not God. Hence, I dont really believe the Prophets receive revelation. I believe they pray and have good intentions. Unfortunately, that causes confusion and conflict with certain people who have their eyes open enough to notice.

I find all these comments really interesting. Ive been wondering about this for some time as I really love herbal teas and drink them a lot. My Nan had some instant flavoured tea that I tried. It was divine, Wittards tea I dont know if its english or what. I thought it was just herbs, then we found out it was made with black tea extract. I wasnt sure whether that was real tea or not, so I continue to drink it when I go over there. My friend bought a green tea in our break today and I said is that like proper tea. She shrugged. I said is it nice and she said do u want to try a bit so I did. Green tea with lemon it was. Very nice. I think its ok and dont feel im breaking the word of wisdom. I asked my husband what he thought about green tea and he said he felt it was 'proper' tea. So I didnt mention Id had a sip. I wouldnt have a problem drinking it in the future although oppurtunities for this are probably rare.