drjme

Hey Anthony, what is it exactly that you don't agree with?

Hey Lostnfound, Why don't you bear your testimony? it's not cool to mock someone else's, especially since it is a deep and personal professing of one's belief from their heart. So if you believe EVERYTHING we need is solely in the bible, How come the Christian world can't agree on it's interpretations. I have a friend who relies on biblical evidence for his faith. He does not believe in personal revelation from God. He discredits my Faith in Christ because, like you, he says we can't rely on our feelings. It is obvious to me then that he has not had the intense burning inside of the witness of truth from the Holy Ghost, because it is a feeling, an awesome feeling. He spends his time in the prophecies of the bible (specifically Daniel), looking for evidence of Noahs ark, Trying to explain the biblical description of the creation, Looking for the evidence to justify his belief. Faith is not based on evidence otherwise you will require more evidence to increase/justify your faith, It is 'a belief in something that cannot be seen', Hence you are required to Trust first, and then receive your witness of truth. So he continues on his way, sends me DNA vs the Book of Mormon, tells me I can't rely on 'things I feel', and says all I need is the bible and nothing else, and I feel sorry for him. While he spends all his time trying to prove other religions wrong to justify his, All I do is invite him to read the BOM, I don't tell him his beliefs are wrong etc. But he won't, He has closed his mind to anything else, and If he did choose to read it, it would probably be to try to prove it wrong. If his faith is completely in Christ, Then what harm can it do, to read the BOM with an open heart to Christ, and pray to Him in honesty, truth and humility and Faith in Him, if it is more of His Word or not? With Faith that God would let him know (but then again He doesn't trust his feelings and so doesn't believe in personal revelation) As the Good book says' the witness comes after the trial of your faith'. And from my experience that witness is not a just feeling, but a voice, A burning, and a feeling of Love, Comfort, and peace that is far beyond anything I have felt before then or since then. So should I trust this witness? or should I trust what My friend says, which is what you say: Nothing but the bible, Don't trust your feelings?

If you are think that I said faith is a work, I did not. I compared baptism to a work, as in an action. you could say that it is a fruit of faith. It always seems to come back to 'you are not saved by baptism alone' or 'you are not saved by works alone'. And LDS agree with that. But it is like without each aspect (faith,works,grace) if you are missing one the others are redundant. eg. -For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God, - But we believe (faith) that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. -Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? -Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. -Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he cpurgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. -Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. For instance you may have faith and not be baptized, or you may be baptized and not have any faith, or you may have faith be baptized but then turn around and bring forth corrupt fruit or works, or you may do good works and not have faith or be baptized. All which affect your salvation/exaltation to the Celestial Kingdom. And this is where the Glories of the Kingdoms comes in, but thats a different story altogether. so IMHO the relationship between all aspects (faith in Christ ,grace of Christ, works to express my faith in Christ etc) is what potentially secures salvation for men. not one aspect alone.

LDS.org: For us to interpret 'paradise' in this instance as 'heaven' or the celestial kingdom would contradict a lot of what Jesus himself said was required to dwell with the father. Interpret it in this instance as the spirit world does not contradict other scriptures, but it contradicts your interpretation. It is apparent that the thief did not go to heaven, because Christ did not go there immediately (He said TODAY you will be with me in paradise, but He did not ascend to His Father for at least 3 days). For him to do so would not fit in with biblical teaching. It is at the resurrection that we recieve our 'heavenly reward'. What is the point of the resurrection/judgement if the thief already receives his place with God by merely asking the saviour on his death? That would mean everyone can dwell with God in heaven by simply confessing Christ as their Saviour, then there is no point to the judgment or resurrection but this is not the case. Jesus did not got to heaven that day because 'Jesus visited paradise after his death on the cross, but on the third day thereafter, he informed Mary that he had not yet been to the Father.' so where did they go? I would be interested in your interpretation. Call it 'purgatory','spirit world','paradise','hades', so what if Catholics call it what they do? These verses can give us an Idea of what Jesus Done while in between his crucifixion and resurrection. Of course Jesus was not a sinner, but all he was doing was setting the example of what we need to do to 'fulfill all righteousness'. plain and simple, he is the ultimate example. For us, Our baptism is a physical expression of committing our life to the Saviour. Of our old selves dying and being bought back to life in Christ. First principle of the gospel is expressing Faith in Christ, second is expressing repentance of our wrongs or our old life, third is baptism, the first two acts are inward acts and to show we mean it we partake in baptism (can be considered 'works') . In this sense I suppose we must be 'doers' of the word not just 'knowers' or 'sayers'. and so In baptism we are physically doing what we say we know. There is a huge difference between what people say and know they should do, and what people actually do (in relation to committing to things and following through). For example I can talk about wanting to be good all the time, but it means nothing if i'm not actually trying to do it. Christ was So Humble that he submitted himself to the requirements that WE must abide by to fulfill all righteousness. IMHO it was His flesh that required it, not He Himself because He is perfect (his flesh was natural, like yours and mine). He was fulfilling that necessity as he said "..except a man be born of water and the spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God'. He submits Himself to all He says, to show the way, He lives by the laws He sets, For him not to would contradict his laws and void them. that is what it comes down to.

Hi there, So......have you read the BOM and prayed for divine guidance for if it is true or not? The book was revealed through The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, not one of it's 'offshoots'. Since when did the 'main branch'(tCoJCoLDS) become an 'offshoot'?

Why on Earth would you want to let go of your dreams???? to become another one of the disillusioned mass delivering their life up to the 'daily grind'? yet another to relinquish their dreams for self imposed mediocrity? You can keep your dreams and be a faithful saint, own a business and experience a life of Humble abundance, But money cannot be the sole objective. What you can do with your excess to serve your family, neighbor and strangers is a worthy goal , as when you are in service to your fellow man you are in service to your God. If I had to give up on my dreams I might as well close business and go and work at Burger King, as settling for anything less than reaching for your potential in all areas of your life is sabotaging your ability to serve and grow. There is nothing wrong with worthy, righteous dreams and goals. pray for guidance and the spirit to lead you, to help you find a way to make things work out, and continually check your standards(as in what you are trying to attain) against what God requires of us. Good luck and keep the dream!!

I look forward to watching this movie regarding intelligent design vs darwinism: The Playground for Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed Watch the trailer it looks very interesting.

As I said he is the only one I have looked into so far, You asked me for 'any' evidence and I provided you with some. I can get more for you if you want me to, But I would hope you would investigate things a bit more to see another side of the story. I'm 'coloured' and no, I'm not a racist. Do you give all of your excess to the government to redistribute it to those in need? or would you rather give it yourself by choice(Charity with Christlike love) to people in need? Will you give all away so that you do not 'possess that which is above another' Or would you rather take of someone else's excess that is rightfully theirs and give it to someone who may or may not need it? These scriptures talk of giving freely, utilising your agency to help others, not being forced to give.

I was hoping you were going to have a look for yourself I'll quote from wiki (ugh): NAACP: Jacob Shiff: Russian revolution of 1917: Bolshevik party: Interesting trail eh? He's the only one I've looked into a bit. Here's an interesting site for a different view: Modern History project

And?........Because he stopped talking about it, does that negate everything he said? Just in case, the Answer is: No. Find out who financed those movements and you might be a bit surprised. The point made is: what is more important? Salvation of Souls or politics? Not That ETB's message was wrong, But the work of the Lord in bringing people to Christ is what is Ultimately Important.

No probs. Congrats on mission preparation. Your story reminds me of a LDS themed movie I watched recently called 'states of grace'. Apologies if it's nothing like your situation, I just remember watching it and thinking, No matter who you are or What you've done, Christ is just waiting for you to choose Him, ready to change your life, If you let him. Your conversion story may, no doubt, be an inspiration to those stuck in similar situations, looking for a way out. Keep it up and stay strong in Christ.

Hey reveontiveros, Sorry to hear that about your experiences with other members gossiping and not supporting you and your family. Unfortunately Members are still human and prone to doing things contrary to the way they should be acting -as witnesses of Christ- towards those around them. I have had similar experiences with what I call 'closed wards'(tight knit communities that don't fellowship as well as they should). Regardless of how I felt or the way that the 'people' of the church acted towards me, I always knew where I stood with regards to the truthfulness of the gospel. Don't let these gossipers take anything away from you because of their prideful, arrogant actions. Let yourself and your life changes be an example to them and maybe, hopefully, they may learn something from you. Zion and the Spirit of At-one-ment - Maxwell Institute Papers Good article, recommend the read.

Hey morn, I agree, the whole point of it is to be prepared, and do what you can to help in the cause for freedom, And help others to become prepared. The thing is the majority of people aren't prepared and don't really want to pay any attention to these issues, because of the 'babylonian' lifestyle that a lot of the people are seduced into, and may have to give up, or soon, be forced to give up because of economic conditions, they mock what they say not realizing they are honest people who are genuinely trying to help and are concerned about their fellow man's welfare. The point is If Leaders of the church were warning us that the the US constitution was in danger and being disregarded several decades ago, what is the situation now? How much more now? I suppose the 'nightmare' issue is foretold in the BOM: Ether 8:24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation. 'Awaking' is the hardest part, because we have to review and change a lot of what we thought we knew about the world, and some just aren't willing to do that.

Denial, or at least trying to reduce the importance/reality of the message. At what point does ETB differentiate between or separate his responsibilities to spiritual/temporal issues? especially since he is using scripture to notify LDS to Governmental responsibilities/problems. But then his warnings were given as a government official weren't they? An apostle is still an apostle no matter what 'credentials' he lends to the cause, in the same way, I presume, that your LDS beliefs permeate through every area of your life. Imagine the repercussions if our leaders were to identify specifically the powers that be that are the secret combinations? What worldly power do they (the SC) yield according to scripture? and how would that affect the mission of the church? What makes me think, is how everyone here keeps saying 'they haven't told us specifically what it (Secret combinations) is, Where and when specifically, and we haven't been told specifically what to do: So will you wait to be instructed in all things? only if you don't follow it. If God established the Constitution as shown in D&C98: How much is left open to interpretation?

H You do hear the other side of the story, everyday on the news, in the paper where you are taught what to believe by the media (owned by big business, acting in the interest of big business). this is why the internet is so awesome, it allows all views to be heard, it allows the 'little people' and 'the peasants' to communicate, the world over.but remember, The difference is between 'conspiracy theory' and 'conspiracy fact', for instance it is fact that: -the fed is a 'privately owned bank', acting in the interest of it's 'shareholders', not a govt institution. -the fed creates money out of thin air and loans it to the govt at interest -It is unconstitutional. If these facts are not enough to get you wanting to search further to learn for yourself (your aren't supposed to just believe in the video), then it is already lost, because already you have formed opinions on assumptions that aren't correct. Especially when the saints have been told to 'befriend the constitution' and uphold it. I assume the movie you watched was 'America:from freedom to fascism'. firstly these movies are made somewhat 'entertaining' because who, of the general population is going to be interested in it if isn't entertainment for the masses? movies like these are only glancing on a lot of real issues that will require further study, only there to create an awareness on the subject. Unfortunately in conversation with many people on these issues, they dismiss the whole conversation with 'the tinfoil hat' line. but people only use that when they don't have a constructive argument to push their point. My bet is though (and I don't mean to be rude) is that you will dismiss the info given to you in the video, and not go and research any information for either side of the argument for yourself. So it is with so many. Please prove me wrong. Yep sure there is a LOAD of rubbish out there, crazy theories and stuff that is just nuts, which is why it requires time and effort to learn truths. But if you don't have time to study these things, then at least have your food storage and low or no debt. And trust that the prophets have urged you to be prepared, for when these 'conspiracy theories' come out in the open.

Dont you Go anywhere near World of Warcraft!!! you hear me??? I like gaming too. Not those retro titles though. and just as a hobby.

Agreed. apologies for misinterpretation.

One cannot discern the sarcasm when most of your other posts on this thread have in one way or another agreed with the statement you just made. No need to start belittling now is there?

D&C 98: 5-7 5 And that law of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me. 6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; 7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil. D&C 101: 77, 80 77 According to the laws and constitution of the people, which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles; • • • 80 And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood. It's scripture.

Wow. It's lose/lose for us then isn't it. No matter what, even with the words of the prophets, it's still not good enough. well nuff said. If that can't get an LDS to think twice then what can. Is the counsel of prophets 'false panic'? Is it all just a bunch of crazies with tinfoil hats sitting around a computer in a dark room making up stories? When did Ezra Taft Benson 'grow up' and stop believing in those crazy conspiracy theories and did he wear a tinfoil hat? anyways no matter what's quoted, no matter what information people are shown, If they don't want to believe and work to spread the message they aren't going to. But that is the issue. It is a promise to pay by a govt already in huge debt, by a country that consumes vastly more than it produces, whose economy is going into the red. It IS operating on debt. The FED is NOT a government institution. It is a PRIVATE bank devoted to the interest of it's shareholders. The FRN is an issuance of debt, it cannot be a 'dollar' because it is not backed by anything! It is defined in the constitution is it not? Meaning the FRN it is not backed by anything or required to be. Answer to pay debts? print more FRN/debt. etc etc. and when other nations come for their debt because the dollar ain't worth nothing? (44% of US debt is owned by foreign nations).Well who knows what can happen, but you can search LDS leaders prophecies for that too...Countries around the world are changing their base currencies from the FRN to other 'safer' options. check it out (research is required, Don't rely on Faux news).

Where on earth would you get the idea that We trust Gold more than God? . You're funny... Gold isn't the answer to the problems, or the conspiracy, Electing officials who are measured against two things. Adherence to Gospel Standards, and if Not that then Adherence to The Constitution. Which has been described by most Prophets as: ' It is my conviction that only in this land, under this God-inspired Constitution, under an environment of freedom, could it have been possible to have established the Church and kingdom of God and restored the gospel in its fulness. It is our responsibility, my brethren and sisters, to see that this freedom is maintained, so that the Church can flourish in the future. ("Our Duty as Citizens" 920, 922)' I've got a quote for you to on that attitude of 'as long as I'm living the gospel, I'll be fine:

........................... Now I could keep spoon feeding Info to you, Or you can look into these issues with a more open mind, with the guidance and reason of past prophets, counselors etc. Or just disregard it and hope someone else takes care of it.

replace 'USA' with 'A small group of dominant men'. Mate, seems you only read the parts you want to and then change the whole meaning of the quote to suit your purposes ???He must have been an idiot in the first place to change it. (if he were such an idiot). The system of credit controlled by these few small men is what has allowed the expansion. Refer to their opposition to 'the league of nations' which was the first attempt at the UN. Elder Ezra Taft Benson, GC conference 1961: Ezra taft Benson, I testify, 1988: And just in case you think by 'communism' threat they mean 'Russia', they don't................

And if you can't be bothered reading a book, then Watch this: America: from freedom to fascism "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson. 1916. In relation to the Federal reserve act 1913. He said this stating his regret as to what he had inflicted upon his nation after he signed it. The Prophets of the Church Have been extremely vocal about these Issues (UN, get out of debt (WHY???), Food storage, Secret Combinations etc etc.) Why do so many LDS disregard them? Why Do LDS disregard their comments as conspiracy theories?

................... Paul L. Kasriel, Sr. V.P. and Director of Economic Research at The Northern Trust Company, answers some typical questions about deflation in a recent interview with economic guru Mike Shedlock (Mish). Mish: Would you say that consumer debt in the US as opposed to the lack of consumer debt in Japan increases the deflationary pressures on the US economy? Kasriel: Yes, absolutely. The latest figures that I have show that banks' exposure to the mortgage market is at 62 percent of their total earnings assets, an all time high. If a prolonged housing bust ensues, banks could be in big trouble. Mish: What if Bernanke cuts interest rates to 1 percent? Kasriel: In a sustained housing bust that causes banks to take a big hit to their capital it simply will not matter. This is essentially what happened recently in Japan and also in the US during the Great Depression. Mish: Can you elaborate? Kasriel: Most people are not aware of actions the Fed took during the Great Depression. Bernanke claims that the Fed did not act strong enough during the Great Depression. This is simply not true. The Fed slashed interest rates and injected huge sums of base money but it did no good. More recently, Japan did the same thing. It also did no good. If default rates get high enough, banks will simply be unwilling to lend which will severely limit money and credit creation. Mish: How does inflation start and end? Kasriel: Inflation starts with expansion of money and credit. Inflation ends when the central bank is no longer able or willing to extend credit and/or when consumers and businesses are no longer willing to borrow because further expansion and/or speculation no longer makes any economic sense. Mish: So when does it all end? Kasriel: That is extremely difficult to project. If the current housing recession were to turn into a housing depression, leading to massive mortgage defaults, it could end. Alternatively, if there were a run on the dollar in the foreign exchange market, price inflation could spike up and the Fed would have no choice but to raise interest rates aggressively. Given the record leverage in the U.S. economy, the rise in interest rates would prompt large-scale bankruptcies. These are the two "checkmate" scenarios that come to mind. (Read the whole interview.)