vinny15

Uh. this is cool. :)

Oh I thought you siad you were 30. lol

LOL I forgot about this thread. Ya Im 16 years old. Though Yediyd I have an aunt who has a husband who is 11 years older than her. LOL.

Yes in a way, but it's really wierd. Its not like regular doubt or thoughts, its something entirely different wich is by the way over and done with. It happened when I got more active in the church and now its dampened and gone a little. They are unsubstantial doubts or thoughts aswell. It doenst make me feel good either. So I know its satan. I prayed and read scriptures and now God is helping me alot more. I guess I just had to have my test of faith. Like I said before I have had a lot of things try to mess with me including sleep paralysis and ofcorse I read that book on my tribe wich is ephraim and it says that we are tested to the max when we start doing what is rght.

Hey Emma. I loved all of that. Thankyou very much. I have a question that I cannot find myself. Was anyone actually given the death penalty in the mormon theocracy via blood atonement. From my own research I see a resounding no, but I'd like to know if anyone was killed that way.

Check out Acts chapter 19:11-16 ... These vagabond Jews tried to cast out demons, and the demons said," Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?" The demons don't waist their time with "so-so" christians, they attack the ones that are a threat to them! If you are being attacked...the devils know you and feel that you are a threat...They knew Jesus and Paul, you are in good company!!! Thats a cool scripture. I remember something about Newel K wittney being overcome with a demond that was excorsised by joseph smith. Thanks that makes me feel better. I talked to my bishop about my sleep paraysis and I said it makes me feel stronger to know that satan is putting personal efforts against me. The thing is I dont feel doubt. Its like they were trying to plant little seeds in my head in mass production. Its merely jumping thoughts that are easily overcome, but your mind is constantly at work. I know the church is true. Ive seen so much anti mormon literature and still found the truth. There is always an answer.

Thanks. I have the head shaking thing happen to. Its odd. True my mind in the temple had no bad thoughts in it. I wish I could always be in the temple. I will definatley neveer stop reading my scriptures and going to church. I have a testimony and Satan knows it. I was reading a book on ephraim and it says that ephraim will be challenged and tested only when there faith is strong. When they are doing things casually than satan merely tempts them. Its actually quite interesting.

Yep I know that now. The thoughts are usually very unsubstantial as well. I to can erase the thoughts when I read the BoM.

Well it's wierd. It's a completely randomized thought. Im thinking of going to the movies later and than immediately some dark thought says in my head something like the church isnt true. It isnt a good feeling so I know its satan, but its very anoying.

I agree with Emma. There was a renegade group of mormons and they killed the settlers. Plain and simple. Brigham young might of been preaching blood atonement (could of been in a different way than was written because allot of the stuff thats written is merely a mans try to explain in his words what he heard from a prophet) and that might of smarked some type of reason in there twisted minds. We shouldn't make any excuses for the killers. It is what it is. It shouldnt shake any persons testimony of the true church. The church is perfect the people arent (definately arent!!!) lol. I have seen no evidence brigham young ordered the attack. I by my own testimony know he wouldnt have, but Im clarifying that that is my testimony.

Im not like that on sundays. I used to play with the kids outside on sundays. I didnt see the big deal nor do I see it now. Thats odd. It really isnt typical of mormons to do that on sunday. If you go to an lds church we are always happy and speaking to eachother and fellowshipping. Shes just a snob. lol

I definitely wish you the best. I hope that you have a good time and a good experince cheers, mike

If you weren't older than me I'd marry you. lol You brought up some awesome points. Heck my friend is a descendant from the tribe of Judah. That makes him a jew lol. I have had so many good friends who were Jewish. They have a great sence of pride aswell. I just wish they believed in there savior. Aghh oh well. What can ya do.

Well, no....and yes! Emma Well Ill take that. lol

I believe the church has created a monument for the people killed in the mountain meadows massacre. http://www.utahghost.org/Ghost_articles/Ar.../mtnmeadows.JPG Theres actually a few more of them, but I dont have time to find them. But yes responsibility is good. No. No. No. They were not. Thankyou Emma. (You are agreeing wth me right? lol)

Prove what? Prove that I don't care about the afterlife, or prove that the Deseret News published the Conference sermons? If it's the latter, there is no way to prove it online. All I can tell you is that I matched up sermons from the JoD in the Deseret News by accident while looking something else up. I got that information from Stewart Library at Weber State University in Ogden, Utah. http://library.weber.edu/ I imagine that most major Universities in Utah will have the papers in their microfilm collection. Well you're a bright little fellow now aren't you? Directing you to the source is kinda hard. I've been out of college for years now, and I moved out of state. I know you can match them up for me and Im sure there are things published online. I ofcoarse know about the MMM and that there is no excuse for it, but what about the "blood filled" sermons. There are a few, but not enough to get someone to go kill 150 or so persons. It was a doctrinal reason for the death penalty. It wasnt blood filled either. Naw Im not to bright, but I have my beliefs and I know that you have some hate residing in you because of whatever reason. I have an atheist aunt(I know your not athiest) and believe it or not she is quite happy in public. The rest of the time shes calling people telling them that she regrets her divorce, her life in general. So if you dont care than why do you try to convince us. We are happy so why mess with that. We love our religion and our founders. You dont care. So why not just leave and stop with telling us the same thing over and over again in every post. P.S. This is a question not a jab in the face.

yep nothing justifies it. I don't care. Frankly Vinny, Bruce Olsen's a poor historian. Lucky for you, I'm not. The Journal of Discourses were "printed in England" but they were simulatiously published by the Deseret News in UTAH! Seems few LDS apologists actually know that. Your not! argh well I need sources to prove that. Well the fact that you dont care about what happens to you makes you twice less honorable in your answers in my eyes and second please show me sources. Ive seen two sources from you. Remember line upon line precept upon precept. :)

Ok so Ill humor you. Say that the leaders were hyping them up. They said to bring the people to them. Not to go on a crusaide. They had established what they thought was there own government and they were going to establish the death penalty. Can I find whats wrong with that? We can all agree that the death penalty was practiced in biblical times throughout the whole book about even after jesus came to an extent. So the logical thought process would be that there was some type of reason establsihed by God for it. Jason, What do you think happens to you after you die? Remember line upon line precept upon precept. http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Mag...&2.0#LPTOC2 Read the second one. The discourses were not completely accurate. The first presidency endorsed the publishing of it but not the accuracy because of numerous reasons. Just read lol.

I think in this situation (this thread) there are a few that will let things skip there minds no matter how many times they are brought up. I'm not naming names, but this will never end because some question will remain unanswered because this person cant figure it out. The final statement is that the mormons that killed the settlers were not commanded by God and not commanded by Brigham Young. They were crazy freaks that got to hyped up. Mormons are not perfect nor are they always sane. We do not proclaim anything more than human. The church is the truth the people carry it, but that doesnt mean they carry it well.

Everyone will hear the gospel in its fullness. So if its rejected than, than I guess there out of luck.

Well let's look back. There are different things. The word of wisdom was given when ther was no knowledge of drinking and smoking causing any harm to you. Now we know it causes harm and is addictive. Sin is something that wil make our lives worse no matter wich way we think of it. Sex before marriage can cause some ugly scares (I.E. no college, a new baby, a nasty disease, un-healthy sex life with future wife, etc. etc.) Pornography is an evil addiction we all know why. If you cant stop something immediately it's most likely bad. Sin really has temporal and spiritual outcomes on us and they are all bad. It's mainly that we need to learn to take cntrol of ourselves or else we wont make very good celestial beings.

lol. I never new that there were brighamites. I new that there were 2 seperate groups and that there were josephites, but never heard of brighamites. lol I like the -ite words lol. Makes it sound cooler.

Kind of a silly question don't you think? Well you said that you never said you said it was false. So it's on the fence. You could be like some apostates who are just annoyed, but never denied the gospel. So what is it. Humor me why dont ya. Is truth present? Yes. But as the LDS church expresses it? No. Ambiguous answer? Absolutely! Well thats nice. It makes no sense, but thats nice.

Kind of a silly question don't you think? Well you said that you never said you said it was false. So it's on the fence. You could be like some apostates who are just annoyed, but never denied the gospel. So what is it. Humor me why dont ya.

So you don't believe it is false?