person0

At first I misread your post to say, "I convicted a long time friend of mine . . . " I was thinking, "Wow, what a high level of moral prowess! Good for you!" Then I re-read and realized that's not what you said. But hey, I suppose it's good that at least he is not in prison! Right? Unless you convinced him to join . . . from prison!!! Well, we welcome you either way; prison convicts need the gospel too!

I agree that this is the common understanding. I also think many may be incorrectly interpreting scriptures that lead them to conclude this is the official doctrine. So I will add my thoughts which I feel are in agreement with yours. On the one hand we read: On the other hand we read: Murder is terrible, as well as the things that are like unto murder such as abortion. I would consider the notion that murderers will suffer for their own sins, and as a result are not forgiven via the normal process the atonement makes possible. D&C 19 Shows that those who do not repent (clearly murderers can not fully repent) will suffer as did Christ. However, my personal understanding of the doctrine is that while murderers may not be able to receive exaltation, they will eventually be saved in the Telestial Kingdom after suffering for their sins prior to being resurrected. King David wrote, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell". I believe D&C 42, as quoted above, applies especially to those who have received the applicable light and knowledge as it states the Lord is speaking unto the Church. Nephi also appears to have proclaimed that the murderous gentiles of our day could receive a remission of their sins and commanded them to repent. There is no kingdom designated specifically for murderers, they are not listed among those who will receive the punishment for perdition, and their sin is clearly equated lower than the unpardonable sin. Therefore, I think it reasonable, amidst all the evidence to conclude that people without sufficient light and knowledge from God, who commit a true act of murder, may receive their punishment and subsequently a place in at least the Telestial Kingdom, with the possibility that some, who were in complete ignorance (without law) may possibly have a greater reward still within reach (i.e. King Lamoni, his father, etc).

You are correct, and that would be another problem which is spawned by this issue. Sadly, I have 0 expectation that, even if this technology is mastered to a 100% success rate, we would be successfully able to right the wrongs of current abortion law. The intent, however, is merely to further prove that the current pro-abortion rhetoric is illegitimate and flawed. The fact that this procedure would be available, would make it so that we could more easily establish that an individual could choose to find a way to pay for the artificial womb service, or carry the child to term. We could, however, offer the service for 'free' only to those who were the victims of rape, incest, or where the life of the mother was at stake. Since those occurrences are rare anyway, the high cost would be justifiable in exchange that elective abortion would be outlawed in general.

I have had a similar experience to yours. Nearly identical, in fact. However, in the blessing I received, the words stated made it clear that I would not have that experience again in this life (which is good because it was an anguish to joy experience). It was definitely the most amazing spiritual experience I can recall, and it was more recognizably powerful than the spirit present when I was sealed to my wife. I say recognizably, because, it is more likely that it was a larger gap, rather than a more powerful experience. If on a scale from 1-10 you go from what seems like zero spirit, or complete depression and overwhelming anxiety to a spiritual experience on the level of 8, the difference is what makes it so powerful. Whereas when I was sealed, it is entirely possible that I went from 5 - 9, or 4-8 and the perceivable difference was not as large although the actual influence of the spirit was just as strong.

Scientific advancement may eventually catch up to them so that they will have to admit they simply want to destroy the possibility of that human life, and will not be able to hide behind such ridiculous untruthful talking points. Exhibit A Functioning Artificial Womb: Human testing will begin soon on premature babies. Once you take the baby out of the body, regardless of the current rhetoric, you can't argue that it's your body anymore, because now it is not only not yours, it's not even inside yours. If you then don't allow or call for that child to be immediately placed into a functioning artificial womb and grown to sufficient maturity, you by default acknowledge your intent is to kill the child, and prevent it from having a chance at life. All the existing rhetoric falls once this technology is mastered, (in actuality, just the plausibility of this technology should be enough). Then, perhaps, more people will realize, it was never accurate in the first place. Evil, sadly, however, will always come up with some rationalization or justification, as has been proven time and time again.

Just do this: Works every time!

I would say that this is only counting the time since the Fall of Adam. That is when the earth also 'fell'.

Considering the autographa are no longer in existence, your point is invalid. The extant source texts are all copies, or copies of copies and no two match completely: So, we have two books of scriptural claim. One with no original source available (the Bible), and the sources that are available are copies of copies that do not even match one another, copied by people who also could have made modifications or corrections (obviously they did since not all copies match). On the other hand we have the other (the Book of Mormon), also without the original source (the plates), which has gone through minor grammatical and clarificatory revisions. However, because of the Joseph Smith Papers Project, the original printers manuscript is available to everyone in the world. So any revisions to the Book of Mormon are irrelevant, because, anyone can also say that the original source text is the most correct version, and that version does exist. Obviously this is false. An objective atheist would conclude that both books are equally fallacious documents having the effect of suppressing the people due to false truth they were led to believe, regardless of historical significance. One can only truly know the truthfulness of the Bible by the power of the Holy Ghost, same as the Book of Mormon. Regardless, however, you simply want to establish a rationale to continue in your current belief and reject and strive to disprove ours. For this particular argument, you are trying to say that the Church isn't true because it changed the text. However, in another thread you also make claims that would lead one to see that you believe Joseph Smith is a false prophet (looks like the moderators have removed your post). So that means that even if the Church had not made any adjustments at all, you would still believe it is false because you do not believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. Sounds to me like you have a personal conundrum at your hands. Once you decide Joseph Smith was a true prophet, everything else will eventually fall into place (and it is evident you already know how to find out). EDIT: By the way, remember when I claimed that the Spirit of God bore witness of your malintent. You've done an excellent job of settling the matter. I guess I must be a true prophet, so now you know you can listen to me when I tell you the Book of Mormon is true!

I personally have no use for this phrase. I am an intelligent and analytical person, and my family, friends, co-workers and many people in my ward already know this because they interact with me on a regular basis. Being analytical, or a 'thinker' as the phrase in consideration would suggest, is just as much a curse as a gift. I sometimes over think normal everyday situations and interactions and cause myself undue stress as a result. My analyses often come out at the right time and truly uplift and inspire people with new perspectives, but also sometimes lead me to share information about a topic (not necessarily gospel related) with people who ultimately couldn't could care less. This happens because I tend to assume that people, when asking about something, want to be as knowledgeable about the given topic as I want to be, or already am. So then I just annoyed or bored someone to death because they just wanted to know x answer, and I explained them x and the why behind it. I have only heard this phrase a few times, and the impression I get is similar to yours. I would say these individuals are potentially clueless in their pride, as they might even think they are doing some grand favor revealing their wisdom. In other cases, I would say, depending on the context they may be trying to cover for an introspectively known intellectual inadequacy, and/or may be seeking external approval, or trying to uplift themselves because they are so excited they actually came up with something. Anyway, someone who truly is a 'thinker', and, 'just can't help thinking', I would hope would eventually come to a similar conclusion as I have about my own knowledge/thoughts/intellect. Otherwise I would assume they entirely lack self awareness (which seems to be a common problem in our society these days)! Oh the irony.

Yes, it does. That is an artistic form of expressing the statement. It works either way you ask, but if you want to ask if it's not true with a sincere heart, please do. Based on your communications, however, it does not appear that you as of yet have a sincere heart regarding this specific matter. This is the second self-contradictory statement you have made (the first being denying that the Holy Ghost bears witness of the real truth). The only way your reasoning above can be valid is if you are not a Christian, and are not coming from the Christian perspective. It appears, however, that you claim to be a Christian. Using your same reasoning above, why would you believe the Bible to be true? It has been changed many more times than that over it's history.

In fact, it is impossible for either side to prove. That is why we stress so much the importance of reading the Book of Mormon for yourself, and praying to ask God with a sincere heart if it is true. Sincere meaning you are willing to change your life and your perspective even if the answer is not what you want, and that you are willing to receive from God an answer that it is true just as much as you are prepared to receive that it is not. If you do this, then you can receive the answer for yourself, and from there (regardless of the answer you receive) it becomes so much easier to make a decision about how scriptures should be interpreted, etc.

#19 We Thank Thee, O God, for a Prophet "The wicked who fight against Zion Will surely be smitten at last."

So from this section of D&C we can gather that Heavenly Father currently resides on a glorified celestial planet (I would presume that currently celestially glorified beings from this earth would be using that location for now as well). Eventually this earth will be made into a glorified celestial planet. A glorified celestial planet is as a Urim and Thummim. This part alone suggests more than one celestial planet, meaning more than one 'celestial kingdom' if you want to say it like that. However, I believe @The Folk Prophet is on the right track in his thinking, and I would suggest we will all be celestial beings, and it doesn't really matter if there is more than one physical location because we will all be perfected and joint heirs with Christ of God's glory, etc. Side Note: We will each receive a smaller Urim and Thummim which, in my current personal interpretation of 'higher order of kingdoms' will be used to make known unto us all creation that has come before us (such as the celestial planet where Heavenly Father currently resides). Either way, there is more than one physical location that can be considered celestial glory, according to the scriptures.

That's hilarious. I can hear it now: "Woe is us. . . we just wanted to radically kill Jews and other non-believers, and then while imprisoned we just wanted to purposefully refuse food that would sustain our lives. That would show you guys! How could they do such a cruel thing, I mean, it almost convinced me to end my hunger strike. There was chicken, and lamb, and vegetables, I can still practically taste the kabobs even now!" It's not like they were fasting for purposes of repentance for their terrible deeds and desires. Next they should have some Christians go cook some nice thick sliced bacon. Surely the unclean food won't tempt them! Right?

There is an Arabic food store less than 1 mile from my house. The sell Shatila brand middle eastern sweets. I grew up on this stuff, my family would order the shipments directly from Shatila. They make their dishes according to the native recipes (they come in boxes, no machine wrapping), and it is popular and quality enough that they ship worldwide! Even if there are no middle eastern food stores nearby, you could buy a whole tray and have a baklava party I would invite myself to the party but unfortunately Utah is a long way away.

Welcome, @orcnorhn! Hoşgeldiniz! I hope we can all be of help to you as you study, seek, and prepare to receive answers from the Lord. BTW @zil coming from a middle eastern family, I can assure you there are many international food stores where authentic imported baklava can be purchased. In my area it usually costs about $8/lb but sometimes less if you buy large quantities. Hope you can get some yummy baklava soon!

I hope you enjoy your trip! I would love to visit Israel myself. I have blood relatives living in Israel, and our religious views are different (muslim → mormon) . My legal name is also very obviously Arabic. As a result, I have a slightly greater reason to fear that something ridiculous/life-threatening would happen while I was there (especially since I support Israel = family no no). So you guys have fun for me too! Some of my family live close to the BYU Jerusalem Center so if you visit there and say hello to literally everyone you see, you might talk to them by chance. But they will have no idea who person0 is.

Translation: I hate what God has decided I need to know in order to achieve His purposes for my life.

The brother of my wife's brother in law served in a special mission in Utah because of medical issues, nevertheless, he was able to serve. Also, I had a companion who was a cancer survivor, he had to travel 3 hours every 3 months to get a screening from a specialist. He was my trainer and a great man. He has since passed away after his cancer returned, however, he was able to serve in a completely normal capacity and faithfully completed his mission. I seriously doubt you will have an issue as long as you are serving in a country where the appropriate medical services would be available. Even if it were an issue, your Bishop and Stake President can vouch for you to make sure you are allowed to serve.

Here are some applicable scriptural sources (emphasis added): According to scripture: 1) Zion is to be built on the borders of the Lamanites. 2) Oliver Cowdery and others were sent on missions to teach the Lamanites (all of which missions were located within the now Continental US). 3) The missions to the Lamanites took place among the Indian tribes in the West. 3) The Land of Missouri is the borders of the Lamanites. 4) Jackson County, Missouri, is the place for the city of Zion Additionally, regardless of what theories may exist, the Hill Cumorah, where Joseph Smith was given the plates was near Palmyra, NY. Also, interestingly, while not specifying it as the exact correct geographical location, the Lord revealed a location which is to be called Zarahemla: It would appear that regardless of what other evidences currently exist, or will be made known in the future regarding DNA evidence, etc, etc. The revealed word of God gives no other suggestion to the location of the Lamanites other than within what is now the Continental United States, specifically bordering Missouri. This would indicate that the Lamanites must be among the Native Americans/American Indians. Obviously we would all like to have additional information, and scientific corroboration, etc. However, for the time being the scriptures, and events in Church history make it clear that Lamanite territories exist within the US and that the initial Lamanite tribes to whom the gospel was to be preached were/are also within the US. While other theories and postulations exist, I believe the scriptural evidence more than any other, and attest that eventually other evidence will match the scriptures as holds true for many other gospel related questions.

I actually have provided an explanation of how both can be true at the same in another thread: Here is what I said after comparing both verses:

There is nothing good in feminism. The feminist movement, by definition, is not good. Feminism is contributory to the societal decline of the family, and as a result the decline of righteousness in the United States. Feminism is not about equality or justice, it is about power and control. Women in leadership in the Church has absolutely nothing to do with feminism or the feminist movement, such a notion is completely false. The fact that Emma Smith was an influential leader is evidence of this, as her leadership and position was inspired by God long before the feminist movement came to be. While women are and should be able to enter the work force, this should be a well thought out and prayerful decision (in righteous counsel with their spouse if married), rather than the norm that feminism wants it to be. There is place for women in the work force without the modern feminist movement. Feminism is anti-women, it specifically seeks to degrade a woman's sacred role as a mother. 'By their fruits ye shall know them'.

How is it even possible that you are doing anything wrong in this situation? The simple fact that you are asking this question is evidence of your sincerity and love for your students. This family has a few choices, allow their child to eat school lunch, send the child to school with a packed lunch, or send snacks to tide the child over until afternoon lunch/dinner at home. The only other option is allowing the child to go hungry until dinner. If the family is asking you to provide snacks, then they are choosing the latter option. You have no responsibility whatsoever to spend your own money to provide food or snacks for this child. If her family is in financial trouble, they can seek out help through other means. This sounds like a self entitlement problem to me, and I personally would not support them in this. If they do not find their own way to provide for their child's needs, then eventually this becomes a neglect issue and CPS would come into play. They can go to the school principle, the board of education, etc, etc, if they feel the school lunch options are not appropriate to their child's health. I would forward the information to the principle. I would say the Christlike thing to do in this case is to allow them to love their child enough to make sacrifices in order to provide for her in the way they are supposed to as her parents. They are not entitled to use you to fill the gap of their incompetence.

I have a personal phrase that I use regularly regarding 'deep doctrine', so I will quote myself here: "There is no such thing as deep doctrine. There is true doctrine, false doctrine, and speculation." Many times people (especially within the Church) refer to things as deep doctrine, but in reality, they are discussing speculative things. Another related note. I work for a company with an amazing high level employee centered culture. It is fun, while also engaging and challenging for most employees. Many people make long careers here even when they could make more money elsewhere because they know they would lose the cultural aspect of the job. One of the things that our leadership always suggests is that it is impossible to teach our company culture in a meeting or elsewhere, the only way to learn is to experience it for yourself.

So every once in a while I start thinking you are sincerely trying to understand what we believe, but then you say something completely irrational to the Christian mindset of nearly all denominations, and it once again leads us back to the fact that you have malintent in this forum. It is only by the Spirit that you can know that Jesus is the Christ. The Holy Ghost is able to teach all things. If you do not acknowledge that the Holy Ghost bears witness of the real truth, and that God's ways are not our ways, then there is no point in discussing with you any further. Since per your statement, it appears you choose to hold to earthly and temporal truth more than to the truth as revealed by God to each individual through His Holy Ghost, then we are at an impasse. There is no point in debating or discussing with someone who denies the power of God. Good day to you.