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I think its ok for women to get medical treatment for those things, but if its a male doctor, have another woman there. Men just aren't very pure in their minds as much as we would hope. What do they do on their time off? What movies do they see? What do they do on their computer? Sad to say, but even if I don't think a doctor would be like that, you never know. There are now laws that a female nurse can be in their with the woman. Which is a good idea. I would want a doctor delivering my babies, as she or he has the expertise and I don't have to worry about it. Also, if a woman prefers a female doctor, that is ok. As long as the patient is treated with dignity and respect, that's the important thing.

I think other ways of being modest are in speech and thought. If we fill our minds with good books, the Ensign, the scriptures, and tasteful books, then it elevates our mood, our thoughts. If we find ways of serving others and work on improving ourselves, it gives us a sense of accomplishment and well-being. If we look for the good in others, we will find it. If we pray for a purer heart, He will help us to feel more pure. If we watch ourselves to control ourselves, not becoming angry and saying the wrong thing, not demeaning others and ourselves, being respectful of others, then I think we are becoming more modest.

What I mean is that, partly, I am a little old fashioned. I hear people talk openly about male and female things in mixed company, hopefully not with kids present. I think we live in a world were we need more sensitivity to things. Some people are perfectly fine talking about things that are personal about one gender, like 'that time of the month" or "nursing a baby". I'm not saying that's wrong, but sometimes people go into more detail then I feel comfortable with and more detail then I think is appropriate. And it changes the spirit. Recently, I went to my niece's baby shower. She surprised me by mentioning to everyone about something that I wouldn't talk about. One of my brother in laws (who once posted a nude picture when my family was there because he knew I wouldn't like it) made a comment about liking that (I'm not going to go into detail here) but it was just crude and made me feel uncomfortable. I never feel totally comfortable around him. Once he went down the hall where my daughter was, I followed him. I am not saying he would do anything, but my husband and I (and he is is brother) don't feel comfortable with him being around her by himself. We don't see his family very often. Medically, I guess I remember hearing about a doctor that did "enhancing" I really don't like the idea of there even being anything like that, all though I could see for women who have breast cancer, maybe needing that or for other reasons. But he had pictures displayed throughout his office. And I don't know if he did in the reception area, but I mean, I think that is going too far. The husband was kind of embarrassed. I know I wouldn't want me or my husband to have to see all that. I guess I feel that a man really has no right to see another woman like that for pretty much most reasons and even if he has a wife, things need to be discreet and be done tastefully in an uplifting way. I have heard of woman being treated inappropriately (touched or looked at ) in a doctor's office, and if a doctor can't keep a clean mind, without pictures, imagine what pictures do. I just think the approach I heard about that one doctor is disgraceful. This was just a story I heard about, that I would rather not be brought back into my mind. My husband feels the same way I do. Thank goodness for some decent men still in the world. And woman.

So, I have always had a very strong testimony of modesty. In thought, speech, dress and action. I do not like off color jokes, etc. I avoid any movies, tv programs, magazines that feature any degree of immodesty. Once a church member gave us a video with nudity, but it wasn't one you would think would have it in it. It was a kid movie remake. I'm glad I checked it before hand. Even though it was not necessarily meant in a sexual way, it could have been seen that way and was totally inappropriate. I threw it out and my family did not view it. I wished I had not seen that, it took me by surprise and I threw it out and didn't see the rest. I don't even like reading up on movies because the stuff you read is so bad, that I just don't generally have anything to do with the movies of today. There are some things I will never have to get out of my head, because they never went in there either by hearing or seeing, but other things that others impose, on you, whether realizing it or not, I have to deal with. And of course sometimes I make mistakes , and see something that I didn't think would be there. I want the spirit with me all the time. And I want the same for my family and everyone. I value and cherish ourselves as spirit children of our Father in Heaven and that our bodies are sacred, and are temples. It bothers me when I see people, especially in the church, say things that I consider offensive and inappropriate in regard to the sanctity of the body. Even if they may not be realizing that they are being irreverent or that the comment or what they wear or how they act is unnecesarry or inappropriate, it does detract from the spirit of the Lord. Aren't we counseled to always have His spirit to be with us? How then, can they justify such behavior and continue it? I also am concerned about the debate that nudity is art. It disgusts and bothers me that anyone would choose to use the human body uncovered or almost uncovered as art or as a statue. I don't think Heavenly Father would think that is the best thing to do, and there are some scriptures that seem to show he wants people to be dressed. I imagine that includes replicas of people. If our bodies are sacred and holy, why in the world would anyone want to display them that way? Even if it wasn't meant to be sexual? I think people can be deceived into thinking it is ok, but I feel that the Spirit whispers something else about the importance of being covered. It is unnecessary and inappropriate in any setting to display spirit children in this way. Even for medical reasons, it shouldn't just be all out there for everyone to see. I also think that people should be considerate of each gender and not display or talk about things that may make others feel uncomfortable and not help maintain the spirit of the Lord. Our 13th Article of Faith says that if there is anything virtuous, lovely or of good report, we seek after these things.

Bless your heart! You are right, his behavior is detracting from the Spirit of the Lord. Yes, he may be upset if you see your Bishop, but you need a way out and so do your kids. His behavior makes it hard for you to feel good to be the straight woman and righteous daughter of God that you are. Pray to your Father in Heaven. He loves you. He is straight and He knows your goodness and He cares about you. Pour out your soul to Him. Find a plan so that you can see your Bishop and be ok. Do you have friends and family that are supportive or that probably would be? There's hope. Many have gotten out of impossible sounding situations. Yes, it isn't always easy at first, but it can get better for you & your kids. Hugs!

That is terrible, prisonchaplain. Its too bad that that kind of thing happens.

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. I think Pres. Eyring is such a humble man.

I would just like to clarify, in case the court thing gets misconstrued, that I have always been a member in good standing, no problems and a member of society in good standing, always too.

Thank you, especially, Mormon Gator and Sunday 21.

Even if you are honest and it seems the counselor is sometimes not seeming to be. I think it would be harder to judge appropriately with all the information going against each other. I guess it will all work out, and of course prayer, scripture study, etc help people to have a more hopeful reason for a fair outcome. I guess I've seen or heard and experienced too many earthly judges, in and out of the church (not that I have ever needed court for anything, but others have) to wonder how its going to be so different. And how everyone communicates is so vital. I think everyone involved to judge especially, needs to have skills that don't cause an unnecessary problem for the person being judged, where they may have to end up in a lower kingdom because they feel they can't speak up for themselve, that it won't do any good, and that they are being mistreated and or misunderstood. Of course our memory will be better there, and we will be able to remember all things that we may forget at times now. I guess it will be fair in the Lord's eyes.

Also, I think some people may have legitimate concerns about the last day of their judgement and having these former earthly leaders helping in their final judgement. Definitely a major and solemn responsibility for them and the person being judged. But there may be some concern about will that person really feel like they can speak up for themself and will they really be treated fairly. I know Christ will be our final judge, but to me it seems it would be easier to get a more fair judgement if it was just Christ and the person, without these intermediate people who are human too. True they can be inspired, but I have seen some instances where it leaves legitimate concern. I know you can say, "Oh, but everything will be made right and Christ has the final say", and there is some truth to that, that is true, we are taught to say, but no one really knows how it is going to be and once your there, it will be what they say that goes. They seem to have more power, more authority, and maybe are favored because they are a servant. And we are just lowly people who get misunderstood. Or if something happens between you and one of their counselors, how do we know they won't pick the counselor over you?

I have had wonderful bishops, mission president, state presidents and other leaders too. I don't think if a bishop or a member makes a "mistake" that that makes them a "bad" bishop or a "bad" member. I just want to clarify here. It seems that if a person says something on one side of a spectrum (ex. a bad experience with a bishop) than it is assumed , perhaps, that they would label their bishop as "bad". I don't think that is a good thing to do. And that's not what I meant. But I do think we should have sympathy for anyone, be he or she a bishop, a RS Pres, a regular member who has had an unpleasant encounter that he or she didn't see coming. I think a counseling session can often have some good moments of respect both ways, even if there is a "glitch" in part of it. We are all human. It s just that leaders have a sacred obligation, even more noticeable to others, than others do. (even though members also have an obligation too) I just think it is good when the church upholds that standard for leaders to assist them in leading in righteousness. I am not trying to take away or lessen any responsibility a member has. Its just that a member may be feeling vulnerable and is going in for help, whereas hopefully, the leader is feeling ready to help at that moment. I do appreciate my bishop and current and past leaders. They have helped me & my family in many ways. Sometimes we just have to forgive, forget, pray, and move on.

Yes, of course, but there are also many cases of members being kind, meek, going in, and being taken by surprise right at the beginning by being mistreated when they haven't done anything to warrant that. I think many members go in being respectful and carefully share things, inserting things to show that they are being charitable and open minded and are still being blamed, unfortunately. And the monthly training, we really don't know what they are trained to do. Of course we should have charity for our leaders, as I mentioned above, but it really is a problem The Church sometimes makes changes, and I see this as an opportunity for them to learn training (of course its good for members to know this too, sometimes members do blame the bishop, and that is not right,and I am not advocating that), beyond just a general, "be kind in your interviews" or whatever it is they teach. I'm sure there are many topics they learn, and as far as I know, there's no agenda that is the same world -wide for stake presidents to train their bishops. It may be that they prayerfully pick topics that seem to reflect what is needed in their particular stake, and that is good, to a point. But there definitely is a need for this, where they get into basics that generally work for all people. And, I can also see the wisdom in having an ongoing class for the other members, as well. Thank you for bringing that up. It does go both ways.

Thank you. I'm sure leaders aren't always this way and don't intend to come off this way, but it just seems it would be better if they had a standard guideline in talking to the members. Not favoring one above the other. I'm sure it must be hard to be a leader, but it seems strange that as a whole, they don't have a program to avoid much of the unintended problems that can happen when a person is just wanting some help. I'm really doing fine, just reflecting on a couple times in the past. I apprecitate your concern and caring.

I am curious as to why there doesn't seem to be a standardized training for bishops and church leaders in general with how to communicate effectively with those who come to them for counsel. It seems to me that too often priesthood leaders use tactics that are counterproductive and unChrist-like. These are suppossedly the people we are told to trust, the people that are suppossed to represent Christ, and yet none of them, as far as I can see, are required to learn ways of effective communication. For instance, it seems that there is a tendency to blame the person coming in to share a concern about someone else, then to openly have an atmosphere of acceptance for the person coming in. There is much taught about specific things to say and not to say that can be found concerning communication and psychology in how to treat people. Why is this not required when it is so important and some of these men will "help" the Savior with our final judgement for eternity?

I recall in the April Conference, they encouraged us to learn more about the Savior

I have noticed that in marriages, there too often is (unfortunately) a refusal from one or both parties to communicate in areas of there marriage. Especially with finances, I have noticed that one may be spending money on unnecessary purchases that the family cannot afford. (ofcourse what is unnecessary can vary from family to family and individual to individual), but when the budget is limited, say one spouse is working at a low paying part-time job,and the other is not working, it is impossible to make ends meet. Then when the concerned spouse tries to talk to the spouse who is overspending, the over spender distances himself (or herself), and does not clear up the issue right away, if at all, and gets letters warning about paying the overpayments or having other actions to be taken. It is not fair for the non overspending spouse and the children to have to suffer the effects of the overspending spouse. The overspending spouse is not able to get a job and spends time alone, doing what he or she wants to do, while kids are at school and the wife or husband is at work. How does one deal with trying to communicate together and resolve the financial issues, when one repeatedly backs away? I have sadly, seen this in the lives of others.

I am sorry if I may have come across in a way that was not comfortable for others, but as you can see, the picture does show things that should be covered. Anyways, I have a responsibility to believe as I see it. Someone once said that we should not judge another person until we have walked in their mocassins. That is so true. I am not judging others, but just stating where I am coming from and what I believe. I had a meeting today where there was a lot of respect for different ideas and things were handled in a spirit of cooperation and kindness. I think that is the best way to be. If I have come across as judgemental, and I can see how it can be taken that way, then I am sorry. However, I will continue to respect and uphold common decency and courtesy, and hope we can all start off on a new foot, so to speak , and do the same. Thank you.

When the Lord said he would destroy the city of Soddom and Gommorah, His prophet didn't say, "ok, Lord, you know best" (though of course the Lord knows best, and maybe He was "trying" him to see what he would do) He asked to please not destroy the city if they could find so many righteous people there. He kept asking for lower and lower numbers and the Lord agreed with him

I believe if people all followed the Spirit better they would see it as I see it. I'm sure the Lord would have no problem changing the picture. And i don't think he thinks anyone who wants it to be modest has a problem. I'm sure He knows there are too many in the world, in and out of the Church who have a problem with modesty, obedience and reverence. Its not my problem. Just saying, learn to follow the Spirit and not call good evil and evil good. Don't chastize a righteous person when you can look at yourself and hopefully repent of flaws you may see in yourself. I have my own to look at , but they aren't the problems you want to see. How were you taught about chastity, modesty, obedience, kindness, reverence? If it s lacking, you really have no place to judge another. If I have offended, I do apologize, but I will not take back the righteousness , nor apologize for upholding goodness among any degree of corruption. If you aren't prayerful and studying scriptures, etc, you really aren't spiritually prepared to write a comment. I have noticed that there has been a problem with people being careful in what they post. Just be careful, you decide where you'll be and I don't think you can speak for the Lord or His mouthpiece. The Lord will judge us each individually in the end. I have plenty to work on myself, so lets all work on ourselves and stop judging each other. Thank you and have a good day. I need to go take care of other things and spread some good.

I believe that if the brethren were approached in the right way, they may well have the picture changed.

I do not think the picture was meant to be vulgar, nor do I need to clean up my mind. I have one of the purest minds around. I don't watch movies other mormons and non mormons do, I don't joke and laugh at inappropriate things that others do, and I don't wear immodest clothing like so many do. I usually wouldn't even look at the picture. I prefer to focus on goodness

It is more Christ-like to want a modest more doctrinally appropriate picture. I think if people humble themselves and are spiritually sensitive they would agree Not saying certain people aren't that way, but the closer we come to Christ, the more we can see the problem. No one is perfect, it simply may not have been something someone brought up, but definitely I can see a humble, penitent person wanting that changed. A person who isn't sensitive will see it as no big deal. Just as for example someone who isn't as close to the Spirit can't see the importance of keeping a commandment and may not have as much reverence for it.

often it is up to us, with our free agency and folllowing the Spirit to help bring about good changes. Just because something is one way, doesn't mean it needs to stay that way.

or almost nudity is not acceptable. The film is very careful. Also, we know that Adam & Eve were dressed when they left the Garden. The picture is poor at showing that. Perhaps it was overlooked when put in there and their were more pressing matters, but just as there is good, better and best, a more modest picture would be a better accurate reflection of what we believe.and keeping with the sacred nature of the temple.