clbent04

Only thing relevant is America's general attitude towards these topics. The day that parents become the minority voter and childless voters the majority, that's the day I'll start worrying. Should I be worrying right now? I gave up after 5 minutes of trying to find a graph of what percentage of American voters have kids. As long as the majority of voters is composed of parents, I take some comfort in the innate parental instinct to protect our children. Interestingly enough, I found this graph showing the percentage of women who have given birth is roughly the same as what it was in 1976 compared to 2016.

In this context I’d say taking advantage happens with the age disparity. If you have a gay relationship where the couple is close to the same age, I’d put that in a different category, but if you’re talking about a gay relationship with an 18 year old with a 55 year old, I would consider that pedophilia even if the law doesn’t.

How is an adult taking advantage of a child the same as a gay relationship?

@The Folk Prophet thoughts on Billy Elliot? First time I ever saw a Broadway musical back in 2011. Forget gay undertones, that show was just flat-out gay. With that said, it was fabulous! Lol I really did enjoy it. And that’s coming from a guy who was anti-musical prior to having watched Billy Elliot as the first Broadway show I attended. Prior to Billy Elliot, I didn’t like musicals much at all. I had only seen low-production musicals, plus, as a kid, I found any kind of musical to be obnoxious. Now I thoroughly enjoy going to Broadway shows and musicals, although I’ve only been to about 4.

The discussion on this thread has helped me understand why God allows society to influence His revelation, and that God not only reveals eternal principles to us in revelation, but He also reveals necessary detours to help get us back on track from point A to point B. How are we to distinguish what may be an eternal principle versus a necessary detour? I'm not sure. Maybe it's not as black and white as we'd like it to be, but if the Holy Spirit testifies it's the will of God, how important is it for us to know which category it may fall into if God knows that's what we should follow regardless? The Holy Spirit testifies of the will of God for necessary detours, not always just eternal principles, otherwise how could prophets like Brigham Young had confirmation from the Holy Spirit to implement the priesthood ban in the first place?

Fair enough.

My point is, whenever revelations are set to occur at their appropriate time, that time is often decided by us, not time itself. God adjusts how he proceeds with the building of His Kingdom based on where we are spiritually. And that's why I keep reverting back to my point that the more relevant factor isn't time itself, but rather how developed we are with our faith and obedience. Do you think if the body of the Church in general was more faithful and obedient than it is today that the leaders of the Church would be receiving the exact same revelation from God with where we should be focused?

I can't argue with your personal experience. I'm more so speaking to how I understand revelation to work in general, not anecdotally or how you personally interpreted your own experiences. The scriptures show that God opens the Heavens to the elect among us.

God reveals line upon line to us as soon as we allow Him to do so. It's largely dependent on us and our levels of faith and obedience, not some specific amount of time. We all progress at different speeds. The more relevant factor of what God reveals to us is based on our faith and obedience.

Been checking the channel out. Stealthman and All My Life were the first 2 I listened to. You got talent, TFP! Good singing voice and well composed songs. Honestly, a lot of high-quality content. Some of those renditions you have are already in the thousands of views. At least we can say we knew you before you became famous. Thanks for sharing.

This episode I thought was funny where all the good, faithful followers of other religions are confused why they went to Hell. Hell's spokesperson taps the mic and explains "Umm, yes, the Mormons were the correct answer."

I like the show South Park. Under your same reasoning, I thought I'd be a fan of the musical The Book of Mormon. I went to see it with 3 friends. I did not enjoy it and probably would've walked out if I had of been by myself. I really thought the jokes would be centered on unique Mormonism beliefs and the Church's culture, but they went much further beyond that. The Book of Mormon musical also mocks the Savior in the most obscene, irreverent, and degrading way. I feel ashamed and regretful for having watched it let alone inviting 3 friends along with me. Matt and Trey, the creators, were really trying to make the musical not just sarcastically funny, but uncomfortable for anyone who places the Savior even on the lowest of pedestals. I like to consider myself having an open mind, but the mockery of the Savior was too much for me and left me with a sick feeling in my stomach. I would dissuade anyone from seeing it, especially those who have a relationship with Christ.

Drop that YouTube channel on here when you get it going. I imagine you'll at least get 10-20 of us following you. I'd be interested to see it.

I'd say Moana and Luca both hit the nail on the head if they made something everyone can relate to. Disney and Pixar are probably elated when the gay community wants to stick their flag... [okay, let me edit that]... when the gay community wants to claim a creative product as their own among others.

Lol fair enough. I remember the Defying Gravity song, it just didn't stand out to me as much as it did for you apart from the other songs. Are you a professional-hobbyist orchestrator or that's what you actually do for a living?

It's not too far off to how high school kids still behave.

I highly recommend seeing Wicked live. They put so much into the production value and special effects. Second to none in my limited Broadway experience. My favorite part about Wicked is the character development. How they expounded upon the background stories of all the characters is creative genius and great storytelling. I didn't get that vibe at all from Wicked. I can't believe you don't like Wicked. Do you think maybe the title of it made you suspicious upfront to be on the lookout for any pernicious, gay undertones?

The Fiddler cast just really put so much of their heart and soul into the roles that every line seemed to so overly emphasized. When every line right off the bat comes across as overly sensationalized, it makes it hard for me to get entranced with the plot.

I found Fiddler on the Roof to be overly melodramatic. I'd agree the Fiddler's storyline is more in depth, but my metric for judging which storyline is better is heavily weighted on entertainment value, and West Side Story was more entertaining to me.

I like the storyline better in West Side Story, but the musical numbers in Fiddler on the Roof have a leg up. Do you also like any of these Broadway shows? I haven't seen many, but Wicked and Oliver! were great.

@The Folk Prophet I'm just not as comfortable as you are in terms of speaking in absolutes when it comes to addressing the unknowns of the universe. Can we rely on the gospel to dispel some of those unknowns? Yes, but just because the gospel might connect a couple dots for us, we are far from understanding all the intricacies that will be the reality of life hereafter. With that said, I tend to agree with a lot of your positions on this matter. Much of your understanding of the gospel overlaps with my own. You're probably right on this. What would the point be? Seems pointless. Good point. Ten points for coming up with the eternal "gay horizontal mambo" lol. Maybe eternal marriage is allowed for homosexual couples for the sake of the union itself. Does marriage have to be accompanied with procreation? It doesn't make much of a difference to me if I put God in that box or not, so I'm left with the attitude of it won't matter much to me however that plays out when we find out what life hereafter is really like. I don't agree with polygamy not being a good example of a flip-flop sin in the Church's history. The fact is, if I went out and bought myself a nice little cul-de-sac in Nevada with 5 homes so I could have all my wives conveniently there with me (named Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday), I would be excommunicated. Your redirection of how the sin is a sin seems too lawyerly to me even if technically correct. If currently participating in polygamy is classified as a sin, it seems no different to me as to which level it's considered a sin.

I had a similar experience with BYU. In 2013 during my little sister's freshman year (she was 18 years old at the time), she met a gym trainer (he was 39 years old at the time) who charmed her into a relationship. I discovered the gym trainer was living a double life, and unbeknown to my little sister, he was married with 6 kids. Our parents passed away several years prior to my sister attending BYU, so it was up to me and my older sister to try to split them apart when we got news of the development. I called him at his workplace, threatened to expose him, then flew out to Utah to expose the truth to my little sister and possibly pull her out of BYU. We drove to the guy's ward and had a sit down with my little sister, the guy's wife, the local bishop, and me and my older sister. After the truth was out in the open, my little sister apologized to the guy's wife and we left to relocate my little sister from her current apartment to another. We were prepared to take her out of BYU and send her to Washington where my older sister lives. As we were preparing to move her out, I started talking with my little sister's guardian who had called me from Texas. Her and her family were one of the staple families of our Texas home ward and is considered one of the upstanding, fully-fledged LDS citizens. Her and her family had graciously took my little sister in when our parents passed away in 2009. She was very adamant on the phone to not take my little sister out of Provo. She told me she prayed about the situation and even talked to a church psychologist who said it was monumentally important we keep my sister in Provo so that she could prove to herself she could make the right decision. At the time, being inexperienced with parenting as well as receiving revelation, I trusted her and changed course. We left my little sister in Provo. Shortly after my older sister and I left, my little sister got back with the 39 year old married guy. From that point, married guy and my little sister soon left Utah, and a year or two later, married guy divorced his wife, then married my little sister, and fast forward to 2021 they now have 2 kids together. They've moved from state to state about 5 times since then. What he does for a living is still questionable to me and many others. Soon after my little sister left BYU with married guy, my little sister's guardian from Texas told me that my little sister is never welcomed in her home again. She has two biological daughters of her own, and to this day I'm left wondering if she would have left one of her own biological daughters in Provo like we did with my little sister.

With all its problems, would you prefer rolling the dice with another college regarding who your children might come across? Personally, I'm a big fan of BYU-Idaho. PS - Meet Joe Black is one of my all time favorite movies. Tip of the hat to you, sir.

I'm not negating what the Lord has said, I'm simply questioning the possibilities for what's left unsaid. "Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory." (D&C 132:19-21) Does it explicitly state anywhere that a homosexual couple cannot obtain glory? Maybe if what you're inferring here was stated more bluntly I could see your point, but D&C 132 doesn't state Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law [which is to never have homosexual relations] ye cannot attain to this glory. "maybe unions would be allowed in the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms" To appease those less righteous. Admittance to the Terrestrial and Telestial Kingdoms have lower standards, so why not? Slavery and polygamy are 2 solid examples. Where's the stretch?

I'm in Arizona so I won't be able to throw down on the in-person dinner (thanks for the invite, guys), but I'm up for a remote dinner hosted on Zoom. Any takers? Anyone, anyone? Pants are optional, just please be sure to keep the camera pointed up.